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Randle McMurphy wrote:

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Kirk back to being a great hitter and Varsho back to being above average offensively in 2024 according to yet another projection system. If they hit like that, both will be easily among the most valuable at their positions next season.

What a trade.

2.9 WAR for Kirk, 3.0 WAR for Varsho ? So your saying Varsho or kirk isn't gonna have as good as season as Gabriel had this past season

What does projection say for Gabriel in 2024 lol

s e n s i wrote:your annual reminder that derek jeter has 5 gold gloves, vladimir guerrero has a gold glove, and so does rafael palmeiro for a season where he DH'd in 80% of the games. absolutely **** pointless, trivial award that i legitimately thought no one took seriously until now.

This is the exact reason i like that having 3 finalists per position.

It should help the writers in the long term from perrenially voting for the derek jeters of the world over the john macdonalds and yunesky betencourts or the world (or which ever 230 hitter should have won it).

Cyrus wrote:

Randle McMurphy wrote:

Read on Twitter

Kirk back to being a great hitter and Varsho back to being above average offensively in 2024 according to yet another projection system. If they hit like that, both will be easily among the most valuable at their positions next season.

What a trade.

2.9 WAR for Kirk, 3.0 WAR for Varsho ? So your saying Varsho or kirk isn't gonna have as good as season as Gabriel had this past season

What does projection say for Gabriel in 2024 lol

i'm pretty sure that's fWAR lol (moreno had 1.7 in 2023)

s e n s i wrote:

Cyrus wrote:

Randle McMurphy wrote:

Read on Twitter

Kirk back to being a great hitter and Varsho back to being above average offensively in 2024 according to yet another projection system. If they hit like that, both will be easily among the most valuable at their positions next season.

What a trade.

2.9 WAR for Kirk, 3.0 WAR for Varsho ? So your saying Varsho or kirk isn't gonna have as good as season as Gabriel had this past season

What does projection say for Gabriel in 2024 lol

i'm pretty sure that's fWAR lol (moreno had 1.7 in 2023)

It is, but there's no way he knows the difference anyway.

agkagk wrote:

s e n s i wrote:your annual reminder that derek jeter has 5 gold gloves, vladimir guerrero has a gold glove, and so does rafael palmeiro for a season where he DH'd in 80% of the games. absolutely **** pointless, trivial award that i legitimately thought no one took seriously until now.

This is the exact reason i like that having 3 finalists per position.

It should help the writers in the long term from perrenially voting for the derek jeters of the world over the john macdonalds and yunesky betencourts or the world (or which ever 230 hitter should have won it).

Voting has changed.

Twenty-five percent of the selection total was determined by SABR’s Defensive Index metrics, while the other 75 percent was determined by votes from all 30 managers and up to six coaches from each team. Of the latter pool, managers and coaches were limited to voting on players in their own league, and they weren’t allowed to vote for any players on their own team. The utility Gold Glove wasn’t determined with any votes, but rather via a defensive formula calculated by SABR and Rawlings.

Cyrus wrote:

agkagk wrote:

s e n s i wrote:your annual reminder that derek jeter has 5 gold gloves, vladimir guerrero has a gold glove, and so does rafael palmeiro for a season where he DH'd in 80% of the games. absolutely **** pointless, trivial award that i legitimately thought no one took seriously until now.

This is the exact reason i like that having 3 finalists per position.

It should help the writers in the long term from perrenially voting for the derek jeters of the world over the john macdonalds and yunesky betencourts or the world (or which ever 230 hitter should have won it).

Voting has changed.

Twenty-five percent of the selection total was determined by SABR’s Defensive Index metrics, while the other 75 percent was determined by votes from all 30 managers and up to six coaches from each team. Of the latter pool, managers and coaches were limited to voting on players in their own league, and they weren’t allowed to vote for any players on their own team. The utility Gold Glove wasn’t determined with any votes, but rather via a defensive formula calculated by SABR and Rawlings.

Yeah, I can’t say for certain the new way is accurate, but it’s definitely several notches above what came before, and I don’t personally have a better formula.

Meantime, I just concluded a) the GGs are out and b) Moreno won one

…by virtue of seeing this thread go for pages in a couple days. Just looked it up and, yep. Gonna have to keep avoiding DBack highlights for the foreseeable future for the sake of mental health. Speaking of which, I wonder if some are as devoid of doubt as they are seeming. In a way that’d be the better explanation. I know my biases; if we’d traded Varsho for a stud starter I’d still have been disappointed in trading away the odds on favourite for best Jay backstop ever. But for a…trying to think of the least controversial way of putting this…an extraordinary, wonderful role player? That one’s gonna sting for a while. But why is everyone so sure Varsho will move to center? We have a light hitting great fielding cf already and don’t have to trade our best prospects to get him, surely we’ll move heaven and earth to keep Kiermeyer?

Cyrus wrote:

agkagk wrote:

s e n s i wrote:your annual reminder that derek jeter has 5 gold gloves, vladimir guerrero has a gold glove, and so does rafael palmeiro for a season where he DH'd in 80% of the games. absolutely **** pointless, trivial award that i legitimately thought no one took seriously until now.

This is the exact reason i like that having 3 finalists per position.

It should help the writers in the long term from perrenially voting for the derek jeters of the world over the john macdonalds and yunesky betencourts or the world (or which ever 230 hitter should have won it).

Voting has changed.

Twenty-five percent of the selection total was determined by SABR’s Defensive Index metrics, while the other 75 percent was determined by votes from all 30 managers and up to six coaches from each team. Of the latter pool, managers and coaches were limited to voting on players in their own league, and they weren’t allowed to vote for any players on their own team. The utility Gold Glove wasn’t determined with any votes, but rather via a defensive formula calculated by SABR and Rawlings.

Ya I figure the reporters and pundits work and travel so much they have no idea who John Macdonald or yunesky betancourt (who ever) are, but didn’t want to look bad so voting for jeter was considered safe for an “informed” professional journalist.

Three choices helps tell them who to keep an eye on.

That’s my theory anyways. Hopefully over the years, it’ll help mold opinions in an honest way.

s e n s i wrote:your annual reminder that derek jeter has 5 gold gloves, vladimir guerrero has a gold glove, and so does rafael palmeiro for a season where he DH'd in 80% of the games. absolutely **** pointless, trivial award that i legitimately thought no one took seriously until now.

Only reason Jeter got 5 Gold Gloves was because he played in New York.

Mehar wrote:

s e n s i wrote:your annual reminder that derek jeter has 5 gold gloves, vladimir guerrero has a gold glove, and so does rafael palmeiro for a season where he DH'd in 80% of the games. absolutely **** pointless, trivial award that i legitimately thought no one took seriously until now.

Only reason Jeter got 5 Gold Gloves was because he played in New York.

Yes, that was his point. Playing good defense is not necessarily the reason someone wins a gold glove. As evidenced by Varsho not winning one for this season.

That's because back then media was voting, now it has some analytics and coaches voting, it seems much better, don't think Jeter would have won 5 gold gloves in this era of voting.

Cyrus wrote:That's because back then media was voting, now it has some analytics and coaches voting, it seems much better, don't think Jeter would have won 5 gold gloves in this era of voting.

Great point. I agree with this. Jeter would not have 5 Gold Gloves in this era of voting. Maybe managers around the league and the coaches as well, do not view Varsho the same way as some in this forum do who absolutely love him, despite his below average bat.

Mehar wrote:

Cyrus wrote:That's because back then media was voting, now it has some analytics and coaches voting, it seems much better, don't think Jeter would have won 5 gold gloves in this era of voting.

Great point. I agree with this. Jeter would not have 5 Gold Gloves in this era of voting. Maybe managers around the league and the coaches as well, do not view Varsho the same way as some in this forum do who absolutely love him, despite his below average bat.

His bat has nothing to do with the Gold Glove award.

Parataxis wrote:

Mehar wrote:

Cyrus wrote:That's because back then media was voting, now it has some analytics and coaches voting, it seems much better, don't think Jeter would have won 5 gold gloves in this era of voting.

Great point. I agree with this. Jeter would not have 5 Gold Gloves in this era of voting. Maybe managers around the league and the coaches as well, do not view Varsho the same way as some in this forum do who absolutely love him, despite his below average bat.

His bat has nothing to do with the Gold Glove award.

I know. I said people absolutely love him in this forum, despite his below average bat. They love him because of the defense he provides. Not winning a Good Glove does not take away from the very good defense he provides in the outfield.

There is still a chance Gabriel Moreno's power doesn't develop to more than 10hr / 600 PA. It will take away the pain

Why doesn't the team use Varsho at CF where he can really up his value via defense and not make this trade look so bad.

DelAbbot wrote:There is still a chance Gabriel Moreno's power doesn't develop to more than 10hr / 600 PA. It will take away the pain

Why doesn't the team use Varsho at CF where he can really up his value via defense and not make this trade look so bad.

Because its about winning games, not trades…. And KK is still one of the best CF in all of baseball. After last season Varsho should be lucky not to start the season as a 4th outfielder if this team is trying to compete. He could easily be used as a defensive substitute in 2024 until he hits hus way out of that role.

Moreno and Gurriel Jr. combining for 5 hits and 8 RBI's in their first game of the season.

Shakins traded away the best catcher out of the 3 we had for a OF that doesn't play everyday against LHP.

Double whammy

hyper316 wrote:Shakins traded away the best catcher out of the 3 we had for a OF that doesn't play everyday against LHP.

Double whammy

Not one aspect of that sentence is true.