Is Michael Malone the right coach for this team?

[Acountant_Z]

It is difficult to judge Malone looking from outside in.
That said, there seems to be something missing.
This is a very nice roaster with a nice balance of young and veteran players. I just do not see that we are getting anything near absolute best out of this group and that is on our coach.
Jokic fell into his lap despite himself. However, our PG situation is totally confused. Mudiey just does not seem to be growing into it, it is time to try Murray in my view even if it is not his natural position, Nelson is a backup and should remain that.
The team does not seem to have any sort of structure once Jokic gets off the floor, Malone has to figure it out.

[The Rebel]

I posted this in the trade thread but it also needs to go here.
IT is Kizla, so take it with a grain of salt, but he is saying that Gallo, Chandler, and of course Nurkic are all unhappy and need to be traded.
http://www.denverpost.com/2017/02/03/denver-nuggets-pouting-players/

While Kizla in his typical fashion only points to the organization as a whole and points to the players, it also points directly to the coach. If he is not getting guys like Chandler and Gallo to buy in that is on the coach, especially since he seems to go out of his way to give the veterans what they want.

[Dzon Dilindzer]

name of the thread, brought me to post this here

why doesnt Nurkic shoot from mid range, is it Malones or his decision
people say he dont have a mid range, but we saw he can shoot

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

http://i.imgur.com/L5JvcyW.mp4
http://i.imgur.com/U0O6HJl.mp4
http://i.imgur.com/aqFN0fB.mp4
http://i.imgur.com/ly4WvKW.mp4

and what about pnr, they rarely play pnr with Nurkic, and its funny and tragical in the same time, cause hes very good at pnr

[NuggetsWY]

name of the thread, brought me to post this here

why doesnt Nurkic shoot from mid range, is it Malones or his decision
people say he dont have a mid range, but we saw he can shoot

and what about pnr, they rarely play pnr with Nurkic, and its funny and tragical in the same time, cause hes very good at pnr

Excellent point both on general mid-range and P-n-R. I really have no idea who decided he shouldn't shoot from mid-range. Perhaps Nurkic himself or Coach Malone or someone else decided he needed to be a back-to-the-basket kind of player. The Nuggets' announcers on TV have continually mentioned how he rushes his shots when he tries to turn towards the basket and how he uses the wrong hand at the rim on a regular basis. These should be addressed during practices, but either they are not, or he refuses to learn. (The refusing to learn seems unlikely with his extremely competitive nature. Making mistakes probable is not something he likes to do.

P-n-R is something the Nuggets use ineffectively IMO. Denver bigs, when involved, seldom roll hard to the basket - or at least not often enough. DeAndre Jordan is the perfect example. He's not a mid-range shooter but he sets picks and then races to the basket, often getting a slam dunk. If he is guarded, then someone else is open for an easy shot. The Nuggets however, all too often just have the bigs standing in the area (looking for a jumper?).

[The Rebel]

name of the thread, brought me to post this here

why doesnt Nurkic shoot from mid range, is it Malones or his decision
people say he dont have a mid range, but we saw he can shoot

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

http://i.imgur.com/L5JvcyW.mp4
http://i.imgur.com/U0O6HJl.mp4
http://i.imgur.com/aqFN0fB.mp4
http://i.imgur.com/ly4WvKW.mp4

and what about pnr, they rarely play pnr with Nurkic, and its funny and tragical in the same time, cause hes very good at pnr

Malone has said in multiple interviews that I have heard that he thinks the pick and roll is an outdated terrible offensive system, of course for being such a terrible offensive system other teams have no problem beating us while using it.

As for the midrange shot, I have a feeling that is our assistant offensive coach Chris Finch. He came from Houston and where they based their entire offense on analytics up until this year. The analytics say that mid range shots are the worst shot in basketball, they are supposed to shoot from 3 or at the rim.

Which brings up another point, Malone says that the Nurkic Jokic lineup will not work, and people blame Jokic playing PF for his struggles early, but has anybody stopped to think that the biggest issue was the system. When you have an offensive coach that is a true believer in the no midrange shots coaching a team with 2 more traditional bigs in that they have the low post and midrange games but are not full time 3 point shooters, he had no idea how to coach the team.

How do you bring in an assistant coach that cannot figure out how to use a guy like Jokic? Does anybody else realize that Nurkic could actually play a very similar role to the one Faried is playing right now, but with an option for Nurkic to hit that mid range shot so defenders have to leave the paint to cover him further out? They fell into the offense organized around Jokic when he started playing at the high post and just taking over.

Maybe with the assistant coaches bailing like they did, Malone did not have many options for an offensive coordinator type coaches. Neither Malone nor Finch seem to know how to build a proper system to use players to the best of their ability. It is costing this team some very talented young guys if Nurkic and Mudiay are gone before they develop.

[NuggetsWY]

name of the thread, brought me to post this here

why doesnt Nurkic shoot from mid range, is it Malones or his decision
people say he dont have a mid range, but we saw he can shoot

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

http://i.imgur.com/L5JvcyW.mp4
http://i.imgur.com/U0O6HJl.mp4
http://i.imgur.com/aqFN0fB.mp4
http://i.imgur.com/ly4WvKW.mp4

and what about pnr, they rarely play pnr with Nurkic, and its funny and tragical in the same time, cause hes very good at pnr

Malone has said in multiple interviews that I have heard that he thinks the pick and roll is an outdated terrible offensive system, of course for being such a terrible offensive system other teams have no problem beating us while using it.

As for the midrange shot, I have a feeling that is our assistant offensive coach Chris Finch. He came from Houston and where they based their entire offense on analytics up until this year. The analytics say that mid range shots are the worst shot in basketball, they are supposed to shoot from 3 or at the rim.

Which brings up another point, Malone says that the Nurkic Jokic lineup will not work, and people blame Jokic playing PF for his struggles early, but has anybody stopped to think that the biggest issue was the system. When you have an offensive coach that is a true believer in the no midrange shots coaching a team with 2 more traditional bigs in that they have the low post and midrange games but are not full time 3 point shooters, he had no idea how to coach the team.

How do you bring in an assistant coach that cannot figure out how to use a guy like Jokic? Does anybody else realize that Nurkic could actually play a very similar role to the one Faried is playing right now, but with an option for Nurkic to hit that mid range shot so defenders have to leave the paint to cover him further out? They fell into the offense organized around Jokic when he started playing at the high post and just taking over.

Maybe with the assistant coaches bailing like they did, Malone did not have many options for an offensive coordinator type coaches. Neither Malone nor Finch seem to know how to build a proper system to use players to the best of their ability. It is costing this team some very talented young guys if Nurkic and Mudiay are gone before they develop.

All I know is that when you are the one-in-charge, you are the one responsible.
If an engineer is hired to build a bridge and he hires employees that do a poor job - he's the one that gets the blame. Of course if his supplier gives him substandard products, he's no longer responsible.

Looking at the Nuggets' roster, there are some good pieces, if they are used right.

I also know that if the one-in-charge doesn't treat their employees right, they will not produce good work.

[Tecmo]

Was anyone else bothered last night Malone didn't do enough to stick up for Jokic, or any player really, when the refs weren't giving Jokic any calls? I thought last night might have been a good opportunity for Malone to take a technical, get fired up, and show his players he has their backs. I haven't had much to add to this thread, but last night made me say, "No, he's not the right coach for this team." He didn't defend his players enough for my liking.

[The Rebel]

Was anyone else bothered last night Malone didn't do enough to stick up for Jokic, or any player really, when the refs weren't giving Jokic any calls? I thought last night might have been a good opportunity for Malone to take a technical, get fired up, and show his players he has their backs. I haven't had much to add to this thread, but last night made me say, "No, he's not the right coach for this team." He didn't defend his players enough for my liking.

That has always been something that has bugged me about Malone, he is terrible at working the refs, and refuses to stand up for his guys.

[NuggetsWY]

Was anyone else bothered last night Malone didn't do enough to stick up for Jokic, or any player really, when the refs weren't giving Jokic any calls? I thought last night might have been a good opportunity for Malone to take a technical, get fired up, and show his players he has their backs. I haven't had much to add to this thread, but last night made me say, "No, he's not the right coach for this team." He didn't defend his players enough for my liking.

That has always been something that has bugged me about Malone, he is terrible at working the refs, and refuses to stand up for his guys.

It can be a tough thing to learn how to do. You can't scream at the refs all the time ala-Doc Rivers because then they ignore you. But when Kerr went off, it made a bit of a difference - because he doesn't do it all of the time.

I don't give Malone a free pass on things like this because he may be a youngish coach in terms of experience, but as has been pointed out often when defending him as a choice for head coach --- he's the son of a long time NBA coach, and a fairly good one at that. There are certain things he should have learned as he was growing up. How to deal with refs and players and assistant coaches and trainers and front office and hotel staff and ... and ... and ... Dealing with people is probably the most important skill any head coach can have IMO.

[NuggetsWY]

I think I've finally figured out Malone's system: I'm calling it the "All-Star System". It's free-wheeling offense and no defense.

[Dzon Dilindzer]

I couldnt agree more with you guys (Rebel & NuggetsWY), related to the topic I started

as far as I see it, Nuggets fans are great posters, especially you two, including skywalker33, cause you guys wrote most on this forum, so I catch your posts mostly, and Im planning to stay put, if its okay

as for Nurkic, this is the best for everyone, maybe it couldve been different, but well never know I guess

[NuggetsWY]

I couldnt agree more with you guys (Rebel & NuggetsWY), related to the topic I started

as far as I see it, Nuggets fans are great posters, especially you two, including skywalker33, cause you guys wrote most on this forum, so I catch your posts mostly, and Im planning to stay put, if its okay

as for Nurkic, this is the best for everyone, maybe it couldve been different, but well never know I guess

Thanks - you are kind --- You are also a good poster and welcome here - we like a peaceful board

I think you guys got the better end of this deal but I am glad for Nurkic. He should be a nice fit and having lived in Portland, I can assure you that his attitude will almost certainly fit in. He likes to get along but don't push him too hard. He's a good rebounder and loves to set picks almost as much as Jokic. He doesn't tend to go out high a lot because he's not a great long-range shooter, but he can hit some long 2s just fine. If the offense allows, Lillard & McCollum should love his picks. No one, NO ONE will run through his pick and it's a long way around him. They should get a couple extra nice jump shots per game just from that.

[The Rebel]

After watching the last few games and the Parts of the Portland game last night I really am annoyed with this whole team and coach. I wish I could blame it all on Malone but reality is he is only part of the problem, this team is built terribly, and that is on the front office.

The front office it to blame for roster construction, and let's look at our roster and the fit.
You have Gallo, Barton, Murray, Mudiay, Jokic, and Nelson who all like to have the ball in their hands and create their own shots, but the only one who is above average for his position at creating for others is Jokic. Gallo could be but he is too selfish this season, and Mudiay and Murray both have talent but have yet to develop it enough to do it on a consistent basis. That is basically half of your rotation that needs the ball in their hands, and only 1 who really likes to and is good at creating for others.

Our spot up shooters are basically Arthur, Hernan-Gomez, Harris, and on rare occasions Nelson and Chandler. Murray and Mudiay can be but they have to have the ball in their hands to get going before they can just be spot up shooters. Notice an issue? Really there are only 3 that are happy and successful as spot up shooters and 2 of them rarely see the court. Hard to run an offense from the high post when the guys he is passing to wants to create their own shot and struggle if they are just uses as spot up shooters.

It is obvious that Gallo, Nelson, Barton, and sometimes Chandler are doing whatever the hell they want, and only what they want. Notice anything with those 4 guys? They were all here under Shaw, and pulled the same crap under him, so is that a coaching issue or a front office issue allowing them to get away with it? Faried tried the same thing, but with rumors that Connelly has been trying to trade him since he got here, Malone was allowed to and did tangle with Faried especially last year and now Faried is back to playing the right way, so who is responsible? I blame both

Who is coming up with the rotations? There have been rumors that Malone is not allowed to make all the decisions, but whoever has input into them obviously needs some help. This team has too many slashers that want the ball in their hands, than to make the problem worse since the Plumlee trade it appears that the big rotation is going to be Jokic, Plumlee, and Faried. Notice the problem? You have 1 guard that is happy and good as a spot up shooter, you have 1 SF who is okay as a spot up shooter, other than that you have no shooting playing. Up until the GS win we had Nelson buying into playing off the ball, Chandler was happy as well, with Harris that is a solid starting lineup with shooting. Hell before he got his latest injury Gallo was playing well off Jokic in a 2 man game, but that all seems to have went out the window. Our bench consists of 2 guards that want the ball in their hands, so playing them with Plumlee and Faried or Gallo, Chandler, and Plumlee gives you 1 guy who is happy playing off the ball. Now you could go a long way toward solving that issue playing Arthur or Hernan-Gomez with Chandler and Plumlee, but they are not allowed as the veterans seem to have been guaranteed their minutes somewhere along the line. Are those coaching issues, GM issue, or an overall roster issue?

Now I will say what we do know about Malone is not great.

Malone's defensive system sucks, having guys always chase over screens usually leaves the pick defender which is usually a big trying to defend 2 guys and the roll defender stuck behind the play, The only bigs we have with close to the althleticism to defend the pick and roll that way are Faried, Hernan-Gomez, and Arthur, 2 of those guys did not play last night. The truth is trying to defend the pick and roll that way there are only a couple of centers in the league that can try to defend that play, and the Nuggets do not have those guys.

The veterans do not seem to have bought into the offense. I would guess that the coaches have tried to install an offense that runs through the center considering Jokic is better at controlling an offense than half of the starting PGs in the league and they traded for Plumlee partially due to his passing, but it does not run that way. Now even without the backing of the front office Malone should be able to get those guys to by in considering how much better they play and their stats look when the offense runs correctly, but he cannot seem to get that part done.

Speaking of which the double standards drive me nuts. Why are Gallo, Chandler, Nelson, and Barton allowed to do whatever they want while the young guys get yanked for minor mistakes?

I am still pissed off about how the whole Nurkic crap went down, and do place a lot of blame on Malone and the front office both. Like I said before Nurkic was the scapegoat, just as Faried was for months, yet Malone and the front office seem to avoid placing the blame on the veterans where it should be going.

I will say that I was impressed leading up to and of course in the GS game, the team was playing together and everything was clicking, although some of the veterans were not playing. Much like the early part of the season it seems like everybody is out for themselves, an not buying in. I was hoping that the front office was going to clear out Barton and Gallo at least at the trade deadline, but they did not, and it is obvious that they are not great fits with what the team needs, but is it Malone making the decision on their minutes, or is it out of his hands?

[Dzon Dilindzer]

thats what he said after the game with Magic, obviously things were much worse than we assumption

[skywalker33]

thats what he said after the game with Magic, obviously things were much worse than we assumption

Wish him well, but could that be related to the fact he finally didn't have someone better blocking his way to the starting lineup, which realistically was blocking his way to a huge payday ??

Definitely a better situation for Nurk.

[U hova]

No, I think he's just genuinely having fun again.

[eathb_au]

I don't think Nurkic had a problem with coming off the bench.

He had a problem with going from a starter to not playing at all.

[The Rebel]

I don't think Nurkic had a problem with coming off the bench.

He had a problem with going from a starter to not playing at all.

That and the reported lack of communication I am sure did not help.

[GlenRiceARoni]

I think Malone gets a lot of unwarranted flack on here but i just wanted to point out he made the CLASSIC "foul trouble" mistake tonight and that crap drives me crazy.

I see in the box score jokic doesn't have a triple double and immediately think WHAT THE HECK?!

Then I see he only played 22 minutes and I go completely numb. Oh my God please just let it be a sprained ankle or something...

Then I see 5 personal fouls and immediately ball up my fists in anger.

I don't even want to press the "more stats" button that shows me the +/- I already know the answer. Alas, I give in and sure enough we were +6 when our precious Joke De Jokevic graced the court.

Now I'm steaming. I know I'm gonna flip when I pull the play by play. Sure enough Malone pulled his dunce cap out and forgot NBA players get SIX PERSONAL FOULS. NOT FIVE. NOT FIVE. NOT FIVE.

One more time.

NOT FIVE.

God this irks the everliving crap out of me.

Let's run the play by play.

1st q, 4:58 remaining: Jokic picks up foul #1. Malone makes the easy call to let it slide. But somewhere deep in his heart you know he's trying to divide 48 / 6 and then subtract 12 - 5.

1st quarter, 4:22 remaining. Technical foul on jokic. 3 seconds in the key. Alarm bells sound. OH MY GOD IS THAT A FOUL ON JOKIC? No. Oh thank God. That would have been 2 and we'd have to get him out of there!

1st quarter, 3:47 remaining. Foul on jokic his 2nd. SUB!!!! SIX DIVIDED BY FOUR IS ONLY 1 AND A HALF. I JUST DID THE MATH. HE'S NOW OFFICIALLY IN FOOOOOUL TROUBLE GET HIM OUTTA THERE QUICK BEFORE WE LOSE THE GAME!

2nd quarter, 8:44 remaining. Malone looks around smugly as Jokic enters the game. He doesn't need his TI-83 on the sideline because He's done the math and it says Jokic is no longer in "FOUL TROUBLE". Its safe to put him back in.

2nd quarter, 5:46 remaining. 3rd foul on Jokic. ARGHHHHHH GET HIM OUTTA THERE HE'S HALFWAY TO 6 FOULS AND IT'S NOT EVEN HALFTIME YET. NO WAY WE PUT HIM IN BEFORE THE 2ND HALF BECAUSE HE'S GOT HALF THE FOULS ALREADY.

3rd Quarter, 10:17 remaining. Jokic 4th foul. NOOOOOOO! HE'S GOT FOUR FOULS!!! THE MATH SAYS I'VE GOTTA TAKE HIM OUT AGAIN OR HE WILL FOUL OUT!!!

Malone bristles. His team holds a 58-51 lead. Maybe if his team can just hold up another quarter without his best player they can muster a victory in the 4th.

Whoops. Nuggets proceed to score 16 points without their leading scorer and iniatior. Enter the 4th quarter down 80-74 after getting face stomped for ten minutes and forced to put jokic in.

4th quarter, 9:29 remaining. Jokic picks up 5th foul. Forced to leave him in at this point with the game 88-80 and slipping away.

JUST KIDDING!!! 8:37 remaining put him back on the bench we can't have him fouling out!

4th quarter, 5:54 remaining: let's sneak jokic back in down 95-89 and try to pull off the come back!

Proceed to (probably correctly) sub jokic in and out offense for defense.

Well Denver:

-59 sec left Barton misses FT to tie
-33 sec left Barton misses 3pt for lead
- 5 sec left Barton misses 3 footer to tie

I point this out to note it was truly a one possession a game. A single layup, good look from 3, nifty pass, or even rebound that got pushed in transition AT ANY POINT IN THE GAME could have swung the outcome.


What do we learn here (besides NOT letting Barton take every shot down the stretch when he is 2-13 FG and 5-9 FT for the game!!!)

Well for starters THANK GOODNESS JOKIC DIDN'T FOUL OUT! I mean that handy dandy foul he saved will rollover into our game against New Orleans next week, right?

What it doesn't work like that?! Well then perhaps you should have PLAYED YOUR BEST PLAYER DURING THE GAME INSTEAD OF SAVING HIM FOR THE "LAST SHOT"

WHICH HE DIDN'T EVEN TAKE!!!!!!!


Where's that bang head emoji all the kids use?

How many more minutes could jokic have logged tonight before fouling out? One? Five? Twenty? We will never know, but the simple answer in a one possession game is: ENOUGH

And why is everyone so concerned with the dreaded FOUL OUT?

Benching a player in "FOUL TROUBLE" is essentially fouling them out yourself. The end result is the same. They are on the freaking bench.

Seriously, do you bench every soccer player who gets a yellow card? No. And the penalty for a second yellow card means he is ejected and you have to play a man down! It's not like basketball becomes 4 on 5 if he fouls out.

I mean I'm not saying let the guy get 5 fouls before halftime. Or play him when he's in foul trouble and fatigued and more prone to pick up fouls.

But 22 minutes?! This crap never makes sense. Post players rarely get the ball late in the game anyway.


This is the CLASSIC Coaching mistake and it drives me nuts.

Did Jordan ever play 22 minutes? Lebron? I bet they got 2 fouls in a quarter one time too...

And that brings up my final point that if you let a player play through foul trouble refs are less likely to foul them out unless it's a must call. They are human. How many times have you seen guys magically play through foul trouble over the years? Foul outs are usually only common in OT games and when people intentionally foul at the end of games...

Force the refs to send your guy to the bench. Don't do it yourself... how simple is that?





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Excited about the Playoffs now that Durant has given other teams a fighting chance

[Mickey8]

Jokic would have fouled out before 4th quarter if Malone decided not to take him out of the game in third quarter , those refs were on the mission to take Jokic out of the game by themselves tonight .