The James Shields deal

Quake Griffin · Post #1 » by **Quake Griffin** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:37 pm

makes Kansas City a decent team.

they'll compete in that division...that weak division in particular.....no promises on their record or if they win it though.
i will be following them this year.

edit:
and i do think KC gave up way too much imo...but understandably so.

Post #2 » by **Da Schwab** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:28 pm

I'm just going to give some people context, since you failed to do so...

http://espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove12/story ... -wil-myers

KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- The Kansas City Royals gambled their future Sunday night for a chance to win right now.

The Royals acquired former All-Star James Shields and fellow right-hander Wade Davis from Tampa Bay in a six-player deal that sent top prospects Wil Myers and Jake Odorizzi along with two other minor leaguers to the Rays. The swap immediately bolsters the Royals' starting rotation and should make them a contender in the relatively weak American League Central.

"We have to start winning games at the major league level, and the way you develop a winning culture is by winning major league games," Royals general manager Dayton Moore said. "It's time for us to start winning at the major league level."

If you watch the clip in that link, you'll hear what Jerry Crasnick has to say about the deal, and I agree with him. The Royals do now have a pretty solid rotation from top to bottom, but they traded away a top tier hitting prospect when they need help at the plate. I think this can help them get to .500, maybe a bit better, but they certainly are not close to Detroit. The White Sox did overachieve, yet I do think they're also still better than KC.

Post #3 » by **sunshinekids99** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:06 pm

I'm thinking this goes down as one of those horrible deals for a franchise. Nothing against James Shields and Wade Davis, but you don't trade a premier power hitter for two middle of the rotation guys.

Post #4 » by **TyCobb** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:10 pm

Horrible trade for the Royals. Myers is on the Trout-tier of prospects.

Quake Griffin · Post #5 » by **Quake Griffin** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:28 pm

maybe bit better?
88 games won the division last year?
how much over .500 did u mean?

how is shields not a top of the rotation guy??....there's minimum...10-12 teams in the mlb he can be the #1 for

i thought the royals gave up a bit too much....but then I realize, Wil Myers hasn't done anything in the MLB....and that this team can continue to try and wait for their farm to give them the next coming or they can go and bring in a winning culture now....and it's the culture change in my opinion that i like

will the rays ultimately win this deal?
maybe....more than likely
but only in a shields n WD v. Myers N Odorizzi standpoint.
those comparisons and those comparisons alone have nothing to do with what bringing in a #1 like Shields can do for this team moving forward.

i like the risk they took...and it will pay off.

trwi7 · Post #6 » by **trwi7** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:57 pm

This risk will not pay off for the Royals unless they do some more major upgrades (they need another starter, a #2 or #3) and they need to upgrade 2B and RF at minimum or they'll be under .500 again next year.

Post #7 » by **sunshinekids99** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:00 pm

Even if James Shields is a number 2, I'm not giving up an elite prospect for a thirty year old pitcher that doesn't put me over the hump anyway

Post #8 » by **HCYanks** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:37 pm

Andrew Friedman plays chess. Dayton Moore would play checkers but he lost all of his red pieces under the couch.

Please stop reloading Tampa's farm, incompetent GMs of baseball.

Ado05 · Post #9 » by **Ado05** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:44 pm

Aha. This doesnt even make them that good. They have a decent at best rotation now. Shields being the only one who is really good. Davis struggled as a starter and everyone else sucks in their rotation. Their really going to need guys like Hosmer to have career years to even think about beating Detroit. Even if they come second in their division, they most likely wont make the wildcards.

Post #10 » by **Da Schwab** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:12 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:maybe bit better?
88 games won the division last year?
how much over .500 did u mean?

how is shields not a top of the rotation guy??....there's minimum...10-12 teams in the mlb he can be the #1 for

i thought the royals gave up a bit too much....but then I realize, Wil Myers hasn't done anything in the MLB....and that this team can continue to try and wait for their farm to give them the next coming or they can go and bring in a winning culture now....and it's the culture change in my opinion that i like

will the rays ultimately win this deal?
maybe....more than likely
but only in a shields n WD v. Myers N Odorizzi standpoint.
those comparisons and those comparisons alone have nothing to do with what bringing in a #1 like Shields can do for this team moving forward.

i like the risk they took...and it will pay off.

88 games is not in KC's reach for at least another year, or so, and that's only IF they get their expected return when they want it to happen. Next year they'll be lucky to win 80-85 games.

I think you're being a little hard on Wil Myers. He's 22 years old and has a decent chance at being called up during early, or mid-season, since BJ Upton is now in Atlanta.

And, while I think you're right about James Shields being a #1 on at least 10 teams, I think that's just attributed to guys like Scott Diamond and Luke Harrell being the "ace" on some staffs.

Post #11 » by **Da Schwab** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:13 pm

HCYanks wrote:Andrew Friedman plays chess. Dayton Moore would play checkers but he lost all of his red pieces under the couch.

Please stop reloading Tampa's farm, incompetent GMs of baseball.

Yeah, it's a bit ridiculous how teams just keep feeding them. I fully expect them to finally get over the hump and win a title in the next five years.

trwi7 · Post #12 » by **trwi7** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:24 pm

My problem with this deal is the Royals gave up 3 top 50 prospects (more than Greinke got and ironically Odorizzi was in that trade too) and they still have a ton of holes to fill and I don't think they will.

Nobody argues that Kansas City is in an easily winnable division. The problem is they have huge holes at 2B and RF and they have to hope Hosmer bounces back from an awful year and Moustakas takes a step forward. Knowing Moore though and his love for Francoeur, the upgrade in RF isn't going to happen and there isn't much out there for 2B.

And after Shields their rotation is Santana, Guthrie and Chen with a 5th starter TBD (and if it's Wade Davis that's awful because he's not a starter). Does anyone really feel comfortable with Ervin Santana or Jeremy Guthrie as 2/3 starters?

They have a shot to win that division if they continue to make moves to improve some major weaknesses. I doubt they can do that though.

Post #13 » by **HCYanks** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:54 pm

Davis is ok as a back end starter for the Royals. He mainly moved to the bullpen because the Rays had better pitchers to move ahead of him.

Moore made this deal on the premise that the team was a piece or two away from contention, probably spurred on because he felt the need to make a big splash to avoid getting fired within the next year. Even if you thought the Royals were that close--and I don't--this would still be a bad value deal. Shields is 31 in 10 days and his overall track record is much closer to "good starter" than "ace". Two years of that and four (?) years of an also ran starter are not worth a top level prospect, two other very good prospects, and a low level guy with upside. Especially for a cost conscious franchise like the Royals.

I do wonder why exactly Moore has been shopping Myers for several weeks with no bites, and if it means there's a red flag or two about him that the public doesn't know about. But that's only speculation.

Pharmcat · Post #14 » by **Pharmcat** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:33 am

HORRENDOUS deal by royals

Dirty Water · Post #15 » by **Dirty Water** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:15 pm

Just because a guy is a first round pick or an A type prospect doesn't mean he's the next Mike Trout. Let's get the guy in the majors before we start putting him in the Hall of Fame. I commend them for at least trying. So many years they have seemed to do the opposite of that. Even after that trade, they still arguably have the best farm system in the division. White Sox, Twins, Indians and Tigers are all bottom-third tier systems. While Royals probably had a top 10 before the trade.

Did The Rays get a better deal? Probably. Will this deal haunt the Royals for years to come? Most likely not, unless both Myers and Odorozzi become perenial all-stars.

trwi7 · Post #16 » by **trwi7** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:55 pm

Dirty Water wrote:White Sox, Twins, Indians and Tigers are all bottom-third tier systems. While Royals probably had a top 10 before the trade.

LOL have you seen what the Twins have done with their farm system? It's easily better than the Royals and probably top 5 in baseball.

And yes Myers, Odorizzi, Montgomery are all prospects. They're also very highly rated. Chances are at least one of them becomes an all-star and is cheap and under control for 6 years. That alone isn't worth two years of an expensive soon to be declining pitcher.

Ado05 · Post #17 » by **Ado05** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:02 pm

Dirty Water wrote:Just because a guy is a first round pick or an A type prospect doesn't mean he's the next Mike Trout. Let's get the guy in the majors before we start putting him in the Hall of Fame. I commend them for at least trying. So many years they have seemed to do the opposite of that. Even after that trade, they still arguably have the best farm system in the division. White Sox, Twins, Indians and Tigers are all bottom-third tier systems. While Royals probably had a top 10 before the trade.

Did The Rays get a better deal? Probably. Will this deal haunt the Royals for years to come? Most likely not, unless both Myers and Odorozzi become perenial all-stars.

This will kill the Royal is Meyers does what everyone expects him to do.

Quake Griffin · Post #18 » by **Quake Griffin** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:22 pm

Dirty Water wrote:Just because a guy is a first round pick or an A type prospect doesn't mean he's the next Mike Trout. Let's get the guy in the majors before we start putting him in the Hall of Fame. I commend them for at least trying. So many years they have seemed to do the opposite of that. Even after that trade, they still arguably have the best farm system in the division. White Sox, Twins, Indians and Tigers are all bottom-third tier systems. While Royals probably had a top 10 before the trade.

Did The Rays get a better deal? Probably. Will this deal haunt the Royals for years to come? Most likely not, unless both Myers and Odorozzi become perenial all-stars.

yup.

Quake Griffin · Post #19 » by **Quake Griffin** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:44 pm

Adrian_05 wrote:
Dirty Water wrote:Just because a guy is a first round pick or an A type prospect doesn't mean he's the next Mike Trout. Let's get the guy in the majors before we start putting him in the Hall of Fame. I commend them for at least trying. So many years they have seemed to do the opposite of that. Even after that trade, they still arguably have the best farm system in the division. White Sox, Twins, Indians and Tigers are all bottom-third tier systems. While Royals probably had a top 10 before the trade.

Did The Rays get a better deal? Probably. Will this deal haunt the Royals for years to come? Most likely not, unless both Myers and Odorozzi become perenial all-stars.

This will kill the Royal is Meyers does what everyone expects him to do.

no it won't.

the royals made a play for right now...and God bless em for doing so.
why spend the entire time playing for the future?....it creates a revolving door in which wil myers will come in and somebody else will leave once their arbitration years are up.

like i said, will they lose this trade?
more than likely....only from the what did myers and odorizzi do vs. shields n WD stand point.
could they have gotten more?
but nobody's ever going to take the time to look at them and say they had to break the chain....the chain of high draft choices....good prospects...playing for the future...finishing below .500 and everybody swearing the next coming is major league ready.

Dirty Water · Post #20 » by **Dirty Water** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:02 pm

trwi7 wrote:
Dirty Water wrote:White Sox, Twins, Indians and Tigers are all bottom-third tier systems. While Royals probably had a top 10 before the trade.

LOL have you seen what the Twins have done with their farm system? It's easily better than the Royals and probably top 5 in baseball.

And yes Myers, Odorizzi, Montgomery are all prospects. They're also very highly rated. Chances are at least one of them becomes an all-star and is cheap and under control for 6 years. That alone isn't worth two years of an expensive soon to be declining pitcher.

Twins system is not top 5 in baseball, that's just wrong. It could potentially be better than Royals is after the trade, but it is middle of the pack at best. Royals had a top 10 potentially top 5 before the trade.

And yes, I see high probability that one of those pieces is an all-star. Bryan LaHair was an all-star last year. But perenial all-star? We'll see.