RealGM

Who are your top 10 football players in NFL history, that are not QBs?

1. Jim Brown
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Jerry Rice, Lawerence Taylor, Barry Sanders, Reggie White, Deacon Jones, Dick Butkus, Ronnie Lott.

1. Anthony Munoz
2. Jerry Rice
3. Jim Brown
4. Lawrence Taylor
5. Reggie White
6. Deion Sanders
7. Marshall Faulk
8. Ronnie Lott
9. Larry Allen
10. Bruce Smith

1) Randy White
2) Bob Lilly
3) Mel Renfro
4) Tony Dorsett
5) Emmitt Smith
6) Ed "Too Tall" Jones
7) Eric Williams
8) Larry Allen
9) Cornell Green
10) Chuck Howley

Homer picks, lol.

bluejerseyjinx wrote:1) Randy White
2) Bob Lilly
3) Mel Renfro
4) Tony Dorsett
5) Emmitt Smith
6) Ed "Too Tall" Jones
7) Eric Williams
8) Larry Allen
9) Cornell Green
10) Chuck Howley

Homer picks, lol.

Who are these guys? I have never heard of a single one of them.
Jesus, there are too many. I can think two Ravens off the top of my head and we've only been around for 20 years.
I'll just try to go position by position and hope it adds up to ten.
1. RB-I'll give Otis his pick of Jim Brown here. I'm always reticent to talk players I never saw play, but he was not only dominant in his time in a way which led to championships, but his size and speed combo were ahead of their time. You could drop him into today's game and he could still produce.
2. WR-Jerry Rice I hated this guy. The fact I'm willing to put him here says all you need to know.
3. TE-Tony Gonzalez. I want to say Sharpe because of the Ravens, but Gonzalez has all the numbers now which overshadowed the fact that he was a very effective blocker, which I love in a TE.
4. O-lineman-Larry Allen. This is hard because you can't quantify blocking with anything positive, but you can't find anyone better than him.
5. CB-Rod Woodson/Deion Sanders. Much like the Smith/Sanders argument at RB, a lot of it boils down to what flavor do you prefer. I like Woodson for the physicality and flexibility to move to safety later in his career.
6. S-Ed Reed. The best of all time. Electrifying. Physical. Smart.
7. OLB-Lawrence Taylor.
8. MLB-Ray Lewis. Homer pick over Mike Singletary though totally warranted. Dick Butkus can eat the dust of both these guys
though.
9. DE-Reggie White.
10. DT-Vince Wilfork. Why the hell not? Longevity like Methuselah, size, quickness in space, surprising athleticism, smart, powerful as anyone to ever play DT and has anchored the line of a champion. This might also be a "totally forgetting someone obvious" pick.

RB Jim Brown
CB Deion Sanders
Safety Ed Reed
MLB Ray Lewis... (Brian Urlacher homer pick)/Singletary
DE Reggie White...
DT Warren Sapp....
TE Mike Ditka or Shannon Sharpe.
RB Barry Sanders
OL Larry Allen
WR Jerry Rice

RavenMad31 wrote:...
1. RB-I'll give Otis his pick of Jim Brown here. I'm always reticent to talk players I never saw play, but he was not only dominant in his time in a way which led to championships, but his size and speed combo were ahead of their time. You could drop him into today's game and he could still produce.
2. WR-Jerry Rice I hated this guy. The fact I'm willing to put him here says all you need to know.
3. TE-Tony Gonzalez. I want to say Sharpe because of the Ravens, but Gonzalez has all the numbers now which overshadowed the fact that he was a very effective blocker, which I love in a TE.
4. O-lineman-Larry Allen. This is hard because you can't quantify blocking with anything positive, but you can't find anyone better than him.
5. CB-Rod Woodson/Deion Sanders. Much like the Smith/Sanders argument at RB, a lot of it boils down to what flavor do you prefer. I like Woodson for the physicality and flexibility to move to safety later in his career.
6. S-Ed Reed. The best of all time. Electrifying. Physical. Smart.
7. OLB-Lawrence Taylor.
8. MLB-Ray Lewis. Homer pick over Mike Singletary though totally warranted. Dick Butkus can eat the dust of both these guys
though.
9. DE-Reggie White.
10. DT-Vince Wilfork. Why the hell not? Longevity like Methuselah, size, quickness in space, surprising athleticism, smart, powerful as anyone to ever play DT and has anchored the line of a champion. This might also be a "totally forgetting someone obvious" pick.

I like your approach here. I'd probably go a little more old school at TE (John Mackey), MLB (Butkis) and DE (Deacon Jones) but I can't quibble with your picks overall. And like you - Rice has to be #2 as much as I hated him.

Brown's lousy playoff numbers hurt him. Rice was clearly more clutch.

Otis Driftwood wrote:

RavenMad31 wrote:...
1. RB-I'll give Otis his pick of Jim Brown here. I'm always reticent to talk players I never saw play, but he was not only dominant in his time in a way which led to championships, but his size and speed combo were ahead of their time. You could drop him into today's game and he could still produce.
2. WR-Jerry Rice I hated this guy. The fact I'm willing to put him here says all you need to know.
3. TE-Tony Gonzalez. I want to say Sharpe because of the Ravens, but Gonzalez has all the numbers now which overshadowed the fact that he was a very effective blocker, which I love in a TE.
4. O-lineman-Larry Allen. This is hard because you can't quantify blocking with anything positive, but you can't find anyone better than him.
5. CB-Rod Woodson/Deion Sanders. Much like the Smith/Sanders argument at RB, a lot of it boils down to what flavor do you prefer. I like Woodson for the physicality and flexibility to move to safety later in his career.
6. S-Ed Reed. The best of all time. Electrifying. Physical. Smart.
7. OLB-Lawrence Taylor.
8. MLB-Ray Lewis. Homer pick over Mike Singletary though totally warranted. Dick Butkus can eat the dust of both these guys
though.
9. DE-Reggie White.
10. DT-Vince Wilfork. Why the hell not? Longevity like Methuselah, size, quickness in space, surprising athleticism, smart, powerful as anyone to ever play DT and has anchored the line of a champion. This might also be a "totally forgetting someone obvious" pick.

I like your approach here. I'd probably go a little more old school at TE (John Mackey), MLB (Butkis) and DE (Deacon Jones) but I can't quibble with your picks overall. And like you - Rice has to be #2 as much as I hated him.

Well that hurts, John Mackey.

Otis Driftwood wrote:

RavenMad31 wrote:...
1. RB-I'll give Otis his pick of Jim Brown here. I'm always reticent to talk players I never saw play, but he was not only dominant in his time in a way which led to championships, but his size and speed combo were ahead of their time. You could drop him into today's game and he could still produce.
2. WR-Jerry Rice I hated this guy. The fact I'm willing to put him here says all you need to know.
3. TE-Tony Gonzalez. I want to say Sharpe because of the Ravens, but Gonzalez has all the numbers now which overshadowed the fact that he was a very effective blocker, which I love in a TE.
4. O-lineman-Larry Allen. This is hard because you can't quantify blocking with anything positive, but you can't find anyone better than him.
5. CB-Rod Woodson/Deion Sanders. Much like the Smith/Sanders argument at RB, a lot of it boils down to what flavor do you prefer. I like Woodson for the physicality and flexibility to move to safety later in his career.
6. S-Ed Reed. The best of all time. Electrifying. Physical. Smart.
7. OLB-Lawrence Taylor.
8. MLB-Ray Lewis. Homer pick over Mike Singletary though totally warranted. Dick Butkus can eat the dust of both these guys
though.
9. DE-Reggie White.
10. DT-Vince Wilfork. Why the hell not? Longevity like Methuselah, size, quickness in space, surprising athleticism, smart, powerful as anyone to ever play DT and has anchored the line of a champion. This might also be a "totally forgetting someone obvious" pick.

I like your approach here. I'd probably go a little more old school at TE (John Mackey), MLB (Butkis) and DE (Deacon Jones) but I can't quibble with your picks overall. And like you - Rice has to be #2 as much as I hated him.

While I typically like to be a little more conservative as far as blaming one guy for the results of a whole team/unit, when I'm talking MLB, I have a hard time not holding it against Butkus when stacking him up against Singletary and Lewis. The MLB is essentially the QB of the defense and the Bears finished in the top ten scoring defense only four of his nine seasons. This is at a time when in his last year, there were only 26 teams competing. Ray Lewis anchored as many top 5 defenses as total Dick Butkus played in what was mostly a 32 team league. If one is ever in an argument about greatest defenses of all time, they are usually either taking the side of Lewis's 2000 Ravens or Singletary's 1985 Bears. History doesn't bat an eye at the mention of the late 60s, early 70s Bears. The legend of Butkus may also be helped or hurt by the fact that defensive stats during his career were sparse as the league didn't record sacks or tackles, so his career is mostly summed up by highlights you see on NFL films and old guys romanticizing the era in which they played.

RavenMad31 wrote:

Otis Driftwood wrote:

RavenMad31 wrote:...
1. RB-I'll give Otis his pick of Jim Brown here. I'm always reticent to talk players I never saw play, but he was not only dominant in his time in a way which led to championships, but his size and speed combo were ahead of their time. You could drop him into today's game and he could still produce.
2. WR-Jerry Rice I hated this guy. The fact I'm willing to put him here says all you need to know.
3. TE-Tony Gonzalez. I want to say Sharpe because of the Ravens, but Gonzalez has all the numbers now which overshadowed the fact that he was a very effective blocker, which I love in a TE.
4. O-lineman-Larry Allen. This is hard because you can't quantify blocking with anything positive, but you can't find anyone better than him.
5. CB-Rod Woodson/Deion Sanders. Much like the Smith/Sanders argument at RB, a lot of it boils down to what flavor do you prefer. I like Woodson for the physicality and flexibility to move to safety later in his career.
6. S-Ed Reed. The best of all time. Electrifying. Physical. Smart.
7. OLB-Lawrence Taylor.
8. MLB-Ray Lewis. Homer pick over Mike Singletary though totally warranted. Dick Butkus can eat the dust of both these guys
though.
9. DE-Reggie White.
10. DT-Vince Wilfork. Why the hell not? Longevity like Methuselah, size, quickness in space, surprising athleticism, smart, powerful as anyone to ever play DT and has anchored the line of a champion. This might also be a "totally forgetting someone obvious" pick.

I like your approach here. I'd probably go a little more old school at TE (John Mackey), MLB (Butkis) and DE (Deacon Jones) but I can't quibble with your picks overall. And like you - Rice has to be #2 as much as I hated him.

While I typically like to be a little more conservative as far as blaming one guy for the results of a whole team/unit, when I'm talking MLB, I have a hard time not holding it against Butkus when stacking him up against Singletary and Lewis. The MLB is essentially the QB of the defense and the Bears finished in the top ten scoring defense only four of his nine seasons. This is at a time when in his last year, there were only 26 teams competing. Ray Lewis anchored as many top 5 defenses as total Dick Butkus played in what was mostly a 32 team league. If one is ever in an argument about greatest defenses of all time, they are usually either taking the side of Lewis's 2000 Ravens or Singletary's 1985 Bears. History doesn't bat an eye at the mention of the late 60s, early 70s Bears. The legend of Butkus may also be helped or hurt by the fact that defensive stats during his career were sparse as the league didn't record sacks or tackles, so his career is mostly summed up by highlights you see on NFL films and old guys romanticizing the era in which they played.

Being older than dirt, I have the luxury of not relying on NFL films or stats. I saw Dick Butkus play. And with all due respect to Ray Lewis and Mike Singletary, Dick Butkus was the greatest middle linebacker I've ever seen. The man covered sideline to sideline as well as anyone who played the game. He was not run upon. And until his knees finally gave out he was absolutely the equal of any linebacker since - Lewis and Singletary included. Remember that Singletary (Dent; Marshall) and Lewis (Reed; Suggs) had sidekicks with them that excelled at their positions. Butkus didn't. And even though teams were able to game plan against just him, it didn't matter. No one stopped Dick Butkus. Only thing that stopped him was his knees.

GOAT