Kap vs. Cam

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Kap vs. Cam 

Post#1 » by RavenMad31 » Sat May 6, 2017 2:14 pm

So we have two QBs. One is accepted as a superstar in the league. One is being accused of losing his skills and squandering his career. All that except for one minor inconvenience...
Colin Kaepernick has a better completion percentage and a solidly better TD to INT ratio. You like their mobility? Kaepernick averages about a yard more per rush. Over his career, Cam averages barely under a 9-7 record as a starter. Colin, 8-8. Both have gone to and lost a Super Bowl, except Kaepernick didn't fold like cheap lawn furniture. In fact, as far as handling pressure, Colin had one of his better seasons in on where he was sacked 52 times. I can only imagine what Cam would have to say about that, especially if every other one was resulting in a flag. So one is scraping to regain a foothold on his career and one is considered a star. Do NFL GMs not have access to online footballs stats? All this and Mike Glennon is going to start football games this coming season.
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Re: Kap vs. Cam 

Post#2 » by bleu » Fri May 19, 2017 6:27 am

RavenMad31 wrote:So we have two QBs. One is accepted as a superstar in the league. One is being accused of losing his skills and squandering his career. All that except for one minor inconvenience...
Colin Kaepernick has a better completion percentage and a solidly better TD to INT ratio. You like their mobility? Kaepernick averages about a yard more per rush. Over his career, Cam averages barely under a 9-7 record as a starter. Colin, 8-8. Both have gone to and lost a Super Bowl, except Kaepernick didn't fold like cheap lawn furniture. In fact, as far as handling pressure, Colin had one of his better seasons in on where he was sacked 52 times. I can only imagine what Cam would have to say about that, especially if every other one was resulting in a flag. So one is scraping to regain a foothold on his career and one is considered a star. Do NFL GMs not have access to online footballs stats? All this and Mike Glennon is going to start football games this coming season.



I see that nobody else took this post seriously enough to respond, so I suppose I'll be the first comment.

You can hand pick a few select stats between any two players and make one look better than the other. But come on man. Let's be real here. Cam blows Kaep out of the water in passing yards per game, touchdowns, overall rushing performance, and several other categories. Yeah, he has more INT's, but also far more pass attempts. Kaep was great during the SB run, but you can not possibly watch the two players over the past three years and say with any level of seriousness that the two are comparable. Maybe you missed the season where Cam threw for 3800 yards, 35 TD's, and won the MVP with TED GINN as his best receiver...

Rant over.

That said, I understand your point. I wouldn't go so far as to even say that he should be starter in the NFL, but the fact that he hasn't signed on anywhere to come off the bench is crazy. He's better than most backups and 3 or 4 starters.
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Re: Kap vs. Cam 

Post#3 » by Cactus Jack » Fri May 19, 2017 7:38 am

Give me Kap as a backup asap!
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Re: Kap vs. Cam 

Post#4 » by RavenMad31 » Fri May 19, 2017 3:28 pm

bleu wrote:
RavenMad31 wrote:So we have two QBs. One is accepted as a superstar in the league. One is being accused of losing his skills and squandering his career. All that except for one minor inconvenience...
Colin Kaepernick has a better completion percentage and a solidly better TD to INT ratio. You like their mobility? Kaepernick averages about a yard more per rush. Over his career, Cam averages barely under a 9-7 record as a starter. Colin, 8-8. Both have gone to and lost a Super Bowl, except Kaepernick didn't fold like cheap lawn furniture. In fact, as far as handling pressure, Colin had one of his better seasons in on where he was sacked 52 times. I can only imagine what Cam would have to say about that, especially if every other one was resulting in a flag. So one is scraping to regain a foothold on his career and one is considered a star. Do NFL GMs not have access to online footballs stats? All this and Mike Glennon is going to start football games this coming season.



I see that nobody else took this post seriously enough to respond, so I suppose I'll be the first comment.

You can hand pick a few select stats between any two players and make one look better than the other. But come on man. Let's be real here. Cam blows Kaep out of the water in passing yards per game, touchdowns, overall rushing performance, and several other categories. Yeah, he has more INT's, but also far more pass attempts. Kaep was great during the SB run, but you can not possibly watch the two players over the past three years and say with any level of seriousness that the two are comparable. Maybe you missed the season where Cam threw for 3800 yards, 35 TD's, and won the MVP with TED GINN as his best receiver...

Rant over.

That said, I understand your point. I wouldn't go so far as to even say that he should be starter in the NFL, but the fact that he hasn't signed on anywhere to come off the bench is crazy. He's better than most backups and 3 or 4 starters.


I did, to some extent, hand pick stats. Given that Cam has started more games and has been asked to pass more often, I sort of had to to some extent by sticking to percentage stats, ratios stats and per attempt stats. What I should have done is to isolate the last two seasons where it's been a widely accepted narrative that Kaep has "been terrible". I also reread what I said and it sounds like I was trying to make Cam look terrible as much as it sounds like I was trying to point out that Colin is not, which was not my intent. Back to the last two seasons, the stats would still be similar. Colin would have a better comp %, had a 100 more rushing yards though with 3 fewer TDs, TD:INT ratio is similar-both a little better than 2:1, Cam has him pretty good at Y/A, but Kaep posted a 90 QB rating last year throwing to a cast featuring Torrey Smith as his number one target. He's managed to do all this while the Niners organization has been going down in flames.
Anyway, you get what I'm saying and thanks for giving my thread some attention. When you can sit and even have a conversation comparing numbers to another guy who's made the Pro Bowl 3 of 6 seasons, then it's silly to say that this guy isn't being considered for a starting job based on lousy play. He should sign with the Rams. Is Goff making a believer of anyone?
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Re: Kap vs. Cam 

Post#5 » by Pacers_Freak » Tue May 23, 2017 1:47 pm

RavenMad31 wrote:
bleu wrote:
RavenMad31 wrote:So we have two QBs. One is accepted as a superstar in the league. One is being accused of losing his skills and squandering his career. All that except for one minor inconvenience...
Colin Kaepernick has a better completion percentage and a solidly better TD to INT ratio. You like their mobility? Kaepernick averages about a yard more per rush. Over his career, Cam averages barely under a 9-7 record as a starter. Colin, 8-8. Both have gone to and lost a Super Bowl, except Kaepernick didn't fold like cheap lawn furniture. In fact, as far as handling pressure, Colin had one of his better seasons in on where he was sacked 52 times. I can only imagine what Cam would have to say about that, especially if every other one was resulting in a flag. So one is scraping to regain a foothold on his career and one is considered a star. Do NFL GMs not have access to online footballs stats? All this and Mike Glennon is going to start football games this coming season.



I see that nobody else took this post seriously enough to respond, so I suppose I'll be the first comment.

You can hand pick a few select stats between any two players and make one look better than the other. But come on man. Let's be real here. Cam blows Kaep out of the water in passing yards per game, touchdowns, overall rushing performance, and several other categories. Yeah, he has more INT's, but also far more pass attempts. Kaep was great during the SB run, but you can not possibly watch the two players over the past three years and say with any level of seriousness that the two are comparable. Maybe you missed the season where Cam threw for 3800 yards, 35 TD's, and won the MVP with TED GINN as his best receiver...

Rant over.

That said, I understand your point. I wouldn't go so far as to even say that he should be starter in the NFL, but the fact that he hasn't signed on anywhere to come off the bench is crazy. He's better than most backups and 3 or 4 starters.


I did, to some extent, hand pick stats. Given that Cam has started more games and has been asked to pass more often, I sort of had to to some extent by sticking to percentage stats, ratios stats and per attempt stats. What I should have done is to isolate the last two seasons where it's been a widely accepted narrative that Kaep has "been terrible". I also reread what I said and it sounds like I was trying to make Cam look terrible as much as it sounds like I was trying to point out that Colin is not, which was not my intent. Back to the last two seasons, the stats would still be similar. Colin would have a better comp %, had a 100 more rushing yards though with 3 fewer TDs, TD:INT ratio is similar-both a little better than 2:1, Cam has him pretty good at Y/A, but Kaep posted a 90 QB rating last year throwing to a cast featuring Torrey Smith as his number one target. He's managed to do all this while the Niners organization has been going down in flames.
Anyway, you get what I'm saying and thanks for giving my thread some attention. When you can sit and even have a conversation comparing numbers to another guy who's made the Pro Bowl 3 of 6 seasons, then it's silly to say that this guy isn't being considered for a starting job based on lousy play. He should sign with the Rams. Is Goff making a believer of anyone?


Kap's play has slipped a bit since Harbaugh left. When he was up and coming I thought he was going to be the next great NFL QB.
Had a decent rebound year this year under Kelly. But, still only completed 59% in a completion friendly offense. For reference, Nick Foles completed 64% as a starter in the Kelly system. Foles QB rating was also significantly higher in Kelly's system than Kap's was. So why isn't there talk on sports talk radio and ESPN about how Nick Foles isn't a starting QB in the NFL? Please don't forget that the year before the protest stuff Kap was benched for Blaine Freaking Gabbert. I don't disagree that Kap shouldn't be a back up somewhere and I think that he will be before it is all said and done. Starter... I'm not convinced.
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Re: Kap vs. Cam 

Post#6 » by Otis Driftwood » Wed May 24, 2017 11:58 am

Pacers_Freak wrote:
Kap's play has slipped a bit since Harbaugh left. When he was up and coming I thought he was going to be the next great NFL QB.
Had a decent rebound year this year under Kelly. But, still only completed 59% in a completion friendly offense. For reference, Nick Foles completed 64% as a starter in the Kelly system. Foles QB rating was also significantly higher in Kelly's system than Kap's was. So why isn't there talk on sports talk radio and ESPN about how Nick Foles isn't a starting QB in the NFL? Please don't forget that the year before the protest stuff Kap was benched for Blaine Freaking Gabbert. I don't disagree that Kap shouldn't be a back up somewhere and I think that he will be before it is all said and done. Starter... I'm not convinced.


And - your post sums up my problem with Kap. As much as the OP would like to turn this into something other than on the field production, it still comes down to on the field production. Now, I'm not saying that there are teams who would not bring him in based simply on his "taking a knee" - that is a Pollyanne-ish perspective and everyone knows better than that. The reality is that he is only a fit in certain offenses and those teams have established starters. He is not a starter anymore. His best option at this point is to either wait for a training camp opening or take a vet's minimum as a backup somewhere that his talents "fit".

Still think he winds up in Seattle. It's a fit. And - Boykin is a knucklehead.
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Re: Kap vs. Cam 

Post#7 » by Pacers_Freak » Wed May 24, 2017 1:00 pm

Otis Driftwood wrote:
Pacers_Freak wrote:
Kap's play has slipped a bit since Harbaugh left. When he was up and coming I thought he was going to be the next great NFL QB.
Had a decent rebound year this year under Kelly. But, still only completed 59% in a completion friendly offense. For reference, Nick Foles completed 64% as a starter in the Kelly system. Foles QB rating was also significantly higher in Kelly's system than Kap's was. So why isn't there talk on sports talk radio and ESPN about how Nick Foles isn't a starting QB in the NFL? Please don't forget that the year before the protest stuff Kap was benched for Blaine Freaking Gabbert. I don't disagree that Kap shouldn't be a back up somewhere and I think that he will be before it is all said and done. Starter... I'm not convinced.


And - your post sums up my problem with Kap. As much as the OP would like to turn this into something other than on the field production, it still comes down to on the field production. Now, I'm not saying that there are teams who would not bring him in based simply on his "taking a knee" - that is a Pollyanne-ish perspective and everyone knows better than that. The reality is that he is only a fit in certain offenses and those teams have established starters. He is not a starter anymore. His best option at this point is to either wait for a training camp opening or take a vet's minimum as a backup somewhere that his talents "fit".

Still think he winds up in Seattle. It's a fit. And - Boykin is a knucklehead.


And the reason teams are gun shy right now is that is a lot of attention for a backup QB.
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Re: Kap vs. Cam 

Post#8 » by RavenMad31 » Wed May 24, 2017 1:34 pm

Pacers_Freak wrote:
Otis Driftwood wrote:
Pacers_Freak wrote:
Kap's play has slipped a bit since Harbaugh left. When he was up and coming I thought he was going to be the next great NFL QB.
Had a decent rebound year this year under Kelly. But, still only completed 59% in a completion friendly offense. For reference, Nick Foles completed 64% as a starter in the Kelly system. Foles QB rating was also significantly higher in Kelly's system than Kap's was. So why isn't there talk on sports talk radio and ESPN about how Nick Foles isn't a starting QB in the NFL? Please don't forget that the year before the protest stuff Kap was benched for Blaine Freaking Gabbert. I don't disagree that Kap shouldn't be a back up somewhere and I think that he will be before it is all said and done. Starter... I'm not convinced.


And - your post sums up my problem with Kap. As much as the OP would like to turn this into something other than on the field production, it still comes down to on the field production. Now, I'm not saying that there are teams who would not bring him in based simply on his "taking a knee" - that is a Pollyanne-ish perspective and everyone knows better than that. The reality is that he is only a fit in certain offenses and those teams have established starters. He is not a starter anymore. His best option at this point is to either wait for a training camp opening or take a vet's minimum as a backup somewhere that his talents "fit".

Still think he winds up in Seattle. It's a fit. And - Boykin is a knucklehead.


And the reason teams are gun shy right now is that is a lot of attention for a backup QB.


This is a very good point. The best QB situations in the league are always the ones where fans barely know who your backup QB is.
To Otis's point, I guess you can't ignore the elephant in the room with him though I didn't want to make it a discussion about that. I wanted to illustrate that, even with a couple down years, he played nicely last year and that his body of work is pretty comparable, not just to another starting QB, but to one widely regarded as a star. He's played well under two different coaches, most recently with little help. Even his worst year could be excused to some extent since Jim Tomsula was a turd of a head coach.
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Re: Kap vs. Cam 

Post#9 » by Otis Driftwood » Wed May 24, 2017 2:51 pm

RavenMad31 wrote:
Pacers_Freak wrote:
Otis Driftwood wrote:
And - your post sums up my problem with Kap. As much as the OP would like to turn this into something other than on the field production, it still comes down to on the field production. Now, I'm not saying that there are teams who would not bring him in based simply on his "taking a knee" - that is a Pollyanne-ish perspective and everyone knows better than that. The reality is that he is only a fit in certain offenses and those teams have established starters. He is not a starter anymore. His best option at this point is to either wait for a training camp opening or take a vet's minimum as a backup somewhere that his talents "fit".

Still think he winds up in Seattle. It's a fit. And - Boykin is a knucklehead.


And the reason teams are gun shy right now is that is a lot of attention for a backup QB.


This is a very good point. The best QB situations in the league are always the ones where fans barely know who your backup QB is.
To Otis's point, I guess you can't ignore the elephant in the room with him though I didn't want to make it a discussion about that. I wanted to illustrate that, even with a couple down years, he played nicely last year and that his body of work is pretty comparable, not just to another starting QB, but to one widely regarded as a star. He's played well under two different coaches, most recently with little help. Even his worst year could be excused to some extent since Jim Tomsula was a turd of a head coach.


An excellent point that should not be diminished.
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Re: Kap vs. Cam 

Post#10 » by Cactus Jack » Wed May 24, 2017 5:19 pm

Kap is in town today, visiting. :wink:
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Re: Kap vs. Cam 

Post#11 » by bsjaffe6 » Thu May 25, 2017 1:56 am

Had Kap not had all the injuries the last couple years his numbers would be better, same if the the 49ers owner wasn't a douche and forced out their best hc in years.

my problem with Cam is he lets non calls by the refs affect him and he looked really on a different page than his team last year but statistically he is superior in many ways
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Re: Kap vs. Cam 

Post#12 » by orlandomanic » Thu Jun 1, 2017 7:50 am

Both guys have accuracy problems. It didn't take long for NFL defenses to figure out to break these guys, just take out the run and make them throw the ball and let them throw incomplete pass and interceptions until their team fails.

Their was one year that Cam didn't throw alot of interceptions, but then the next year, he went back to his old ways and threw up a bunch of interceptions again, and then we saw the same old Cam

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