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Your Final Evaluation of KCP

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Re: Your Final Evaluation of KCP 

Post#121 » by Pharaoh » Fri May 5, 2017 12:42 am

When is the tax calculated? If it's after the season it's possible we start the season over the tax line but end up under it

KCP at $20 mil is steep but I'd rather pay him than pay Reggie whatever he gets

And if it's a situation where you are forced to choose between them regardless of cost I'll take KCP every day and twice on Sundays

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Re: Your Final Evaluation of KCP 

Post#122 » by A_dub06 » Fri May 5, 2017 2:53 am

Pharaoh wrote:When is the tax calculated? If it's after the season it's possible we start the season over the tax line but end up under it

KCP at $20 mil is steep but I'd rather pay him than pay Reggie whatever he gets

And if it's a situation where you are forced to choose between them regardless of cost I'll take KCP every day and twice on Sundays

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He wont be signing Oladipo's contract at $20m per though, its going to be at least $3-5m more per season. Reggie is only getting paid $15m per season which if he gets back to form (doubtful) and finally wakes up to his destructive playing style (extremely doubtful) I think he has a much better chance of playing up to his contract. I think KCP is what we see, with maybe a slight improvement on 3pt% but will continue to be the inconsistent producer he's always been.
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Re: Your Final Evaluation of KCP 

Post#123 » by King Bugs » Fri May 5, 2017 6:06 am

A_dub06 wrote:I don't think any of the Piston fans in the 'let KCP walk' camp actually believe this won't happen, it's that we believe it shouldn't happen.


Basically this, we're venting. When KCP proves he's not worth the contract he's about to get, it won't make us feel better of course because the franchise will be screwed for another half decade, but at least it's on record that we were TOTALLY against this and that it was a bad idea. For what it's worth...

It's so frustrating because he couldn't even overperform in his contract year to trick us into thinking he was about to become something amazing. Instead he shoots 39% from the field... I'm dreading July, I will need to stay off Twitter and the General Board because we're going to be clowned by everybody when we give this dude 20 mil.
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Re: RE: Re: Your Final Evaluation of KCP 

Post#124 » by Pharaoh » Fri May 5, 2017 7:51 am

King Bugs wrote:
A_dub06 wrote:I don't think any of the Piston fans in the 'let KCP walk' camp actually believe this won't happen, it's that we believe it shouldn't happen.


Basically this, we're venting. When KCP proves he's not worth the contract he's about to get, it won't make us feel better of course because the franchise will be screwed for another half decade, but at least it's on record that we were TOTALLY against this and that it was a bad idea. For what it's worth...

It's so frustrating because he couldn't even overperform in his contract year to trick us into thinking he was about to become something amazing. Instead he shoots 39% from the field... I'm dreading July, I will need to stay off Twitter and the General Board because we're going to be clowned by everybody when we give this dude 20 mil.

In fairness to KCP he was "tricking" us up to about February...then he crashed big time!

The big question is:

Was his early season form a sign of things to come?

He was more consistent and was shooting better. And then BOOM crater!

If we let him go and it was a sign of things to come everyone will laugh at the organisation

If we retain him and it was merely a blip on the radar everyone will laugh at the organisation

So let's be honest:

SVG and staff are screwed either way

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Re: RE: Re: Your Final Evaluation of KCP 

Post#125 » by Pharaoh » Fri May 5, 2017 7:57 am

A_dub06 wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:When is the tax calculated? If it's after the season it's possible we start the season over the tax line but end up under it

KCP at $20 mil is steep but I'd rather pay him than pay Reggie whatever he gets

And if it's a situation where you are forced to choose between them regardless of cost I'll take KCP every day and twice on Sundays

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He wont be signing Oladipo's contract at $20m per though, its going to be at least $3-5m more per season. Reggie is only getting paid $15m per season which if he gets back to form (doubtful) and finally wakes up to his destructive playing style (extremely doubtful) I think he has a much better chance of playing up to his contract. I think KCP is what we see, with maybe a slight improvement on 3pt% but will continue to be the inconsistent producer he's always been.

I don't care what RJ gets paid or if he's more likely to play up to his contract.

If I was SVG he'd have been traded by now and we'd be running a different offense that's based on ball movement and player movement

Would have traded Baynes for whatever I could get too

Dre 33 - Jon 15 (Bobo)
Mook 30 - King 18
SJ 18 - Harris 30
KCP 30 - SJ 10 - Hilliard 8
Ish 26 - Beno 12 - Benji 8

If they missed the playoffs at least our kids got SOME developmental minutes

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Re: Your Final Evaluation of KCP 

Post#126 » by epheisey » Sun May 7, 2017 5:36 am

Every time this conversation comes up, everyone ignores the most important factor. How are we going to use the cap space saved by letting him walk? And if he walks the cap space isn't significant enough to even make a difference for this team anyways. If I remember correctly from looking at it a while back, it doesn't really change our cap situation until the 4th year. At that point we've either started contending or we're churning the roster over again anyways.

We can theorize about whether we deal RJ or Dre, and obviously those scenarios change the variables drastically, but a team can't make a decision based on something they *might* do.

We're married to this roster for the next 3 years minimum. It's time everyone accepts what we have.


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Your Final Evaluation of KCP 

Post#127 » by A_dub06 » Sun May 7, 2017 12:21 pm

epheisey wrote:Every time this conversation comes up, everyone ignores the most important factor. How are we going to use the cap space saved by letting him walk? And if he walks the cap space isn't significant enough to even make a difference for this team anyways. If I remember correctly from looking at it a while back, it doesn't really change our cap situation until the 4th year. At that point we've either started contending or we're churning the roster over again anyways.

We can theorize about whether we deal RJ or Dre, and obviously those scenarios change the variables drastically, but a team can't make a decision based on something they *might* do.

We're married to this roster for the next 3 years minimum. It's time everyone accepts what we have.


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It's not being ignored, you're just not reading it correctly. Most of us in the 'let KCP walk camp' don't have a replacement in mind because there won't be enough of the cap left to sign anyone worthy. It's about not having to trade other assets with him down the track because an inconsistent primarily defensive player signed to a max will command such since it will be a huge overpay. I also think most of us in said camp believe now is the time to gut the roster and rebuild instead of waiting 4 years to do the inevitable.

For the record I'm well aware we will resign KCP, I'm just completely against it and know he will become a burden.


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Re: Your Final Evaluation of KCP 

Post#128 » by Pharaoh » Sun May 7, 2017 1:34 pm

KCP at the max will blow my mind

Pressure is on SVG this off-season and I can't wait to see what happens

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Re: Your Final Evaluation of KCP 

Post#129 » by Chillymo » Fri May 19, 2017 5:02 am

Why are we so down on KCP? Unlike every other player on the roster he is the only one who got better honestly. Sure his shooting is inconsistent but up until February he was shooting well. Do we ever think that maybe KCP is tired? He plays the most minutes and plays hard on both ends of the floor. I'm all for re-signing KCP he is our best player and is becoming a special two way player in the League. I'm content with him as the SG of our future. Get rid of Jackson and he will flourish
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Re: Your Final Evaluation of KCP 

Post#130 » by A_dub06 » Fri May 19, 2017 6:08 am

Chillymo wrote:Why are we so down on KCP? Unlike every other player on the roster he is the only one who got better honestly. Sure his shooting is inconsistent but up until February he was shooting well. Do we ever think that maybe KCP is tired? He plays the most minutes and plays hard on both ends of the floor. I'm all for re-signing KCP he is our best player and is becoming a special two way player in the League. I'm content with him as the SG of our future. Get rid of Jackson and he will flourish


"Unlike every other player on the roster he is the only one who got better honestly" - Our team sucks, the fact he improved more than our other players means very little.

"Do we ever think that maybe KCP is tired? He plays the most minutes and plays hard on both ends of the floor" - Don't make excuses for him, if he's tired thats a conditioning issue and something that goes against him. He played 33mpg, thats hardly an impressive feat.

"he is our best player and is becoming a special two way player in the League" - Once again him being our "best" player means very little when our team sucks and didn't even make the playoffs. Players that can defend and shoot 3's at the league average are far from being considered special. This is without taking into consideration the fact that he will show up one night and then shoot 1-9 the next. His inconsistency as a player makes him less dependable.

I've stated numerous times on this forum/thread that people wanting to resign KCP struggle to make a case for doing so without speaking in generalities and resorting to saying "he's a competitor" and "tries hard" which are complete cop-outs when neither of those actually relate to on-court production. KCP basically is what he is, a defensive minded shooting guard that will give you 20 one night and lay an absolute egg the next, clipping 3's at an average rate all while commanding a max contract.

So you are saying that you want to resign KCP even if he resigns at the max which has been reported to roughly be in the $27m per year range? I'm still yet to see some concrete reasons why we should resign him at that price which actually relate to on-court production. If theres no "concrete" reasons then its pretty obvious you don't pay someone the max.
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Re: Your Final Evaluation of KCP 

Post#131 » by Southern Piston » Fri May 19, 2017 8:29 am

Can we still trade him, if so I'm giving him up with some of our depth for the best available pick.
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Re: Your Final Evaluation of KCP 

Post#132 » by tradez401 » Fri May 19, 2017 11:57 am

anyway we can get gary harris from nuggets if we decide to move on from kcp?
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Re: Your Final Evaluation of KCP 

Post#133 » by A_dub06 » Fri May 19, 2017 12:05 pm

Southern Piston wrote:Can we still trade him, if so I'm giving him up with some of our depth for the best available pick.


Sign and trade yes, but as has already been discussed in this thread S&T's don't yield much of a return anymore. The value he provides is mitigated by the contract he's going to sign. Realistically which other team outside of Detroit and desperate Brooklyn would want to pay an inconsistent shooting guard ~$27m per year that shoots at the league average? It's another reason SVG should have traded KCP before this season, at least we could have received something back.
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Re: RE: Re: Your Final Evaluation of KCP 

Post#134 » by Pharaoh » Fri May 19, 2017 12:25 pm

A_dub06 wrote:
Southern Piston wrote:Can we still trade him, if so I'm giving him up with some of our depth for the best available pick.


Sign and trade yes, but as has already been discussed in this thread S&T's don't yield much of a return anymore. The value he provides is mitigated by the contract he's going to sign. Realistically which other team outside of Detroit and desperate Brooklyn would want to pay an inconsistent shooting guard ~$27m per year that shoots at the league average? It's another reason SVG should have traded KCP before this season, at least we could have received something back.

IF KCP @ $27 mil is such a terrible deal why would any team offer it?

There's a difference between saying "we'll match all offers" & saying "we're gonna pay him the max"

Has SVG actually said he's willing to pay the max for KCP?

IF Yes does anyone believe it's legit or is it said to deter other teams offering it?

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Re: RE: Re: Your Final Evaluation of KCP 

Post#135 » by A_dub06 » Fri May 19, 2017 2:13 pm

Pharaoh wrote:
A_dub06 wrote:
Southern Piston wrote:Can we still trade him, if so I'm giving him up with some of our depth for the best available pick.


Sign and trade yes, but as has already been discussed in this thread S&T's don't yield much of a return anymore. The value he provides is mitigated by the contract he's going to sign. Realistically which other team outside of Detroit and desperate Brooklyn would want to pay an inconsistent shooting guard ~$27m per year that shoots at the league average? It's another reason SVG should have traded KCP before this season, at least we could have received something back.

IF KCP @ $27 mil is such a terrible deal why would any team offer it?

There's a difference between saying "we'll match all offers" & saying "we're gonna pay him the max"

Has SVG actually said he's willing to pay the max for KCP?

IF Yes does anyone believe it's legit or is it said to deter other teams offering it?

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"IF KCP @ $27 mil is such a terrible deal why would any team offer it?" - Because no GM has ever made a bad signing or transaction lol.

SVG has never come out and said "we will resign KCP at the max", but he has come out and said that the only team that can decide whether KCP is with the pistons or not next year is the pistons. While I think he's posturing, if push came to shove I also believe SVG would match KCP at the max should Brooklyn, Philly or another team sign him to one.

Letting KCP go would hurt our talent level and also reduce our chances of making the playoffs next year but resigning him will severely damage our long term outlook. As much as I disagree with it I think SVG will make moves for now with little regard to the future. He's shown that he's that type of GM.
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Re: Your Final Evaluation of KCP 

Post#136 » by A_dub06 » Fri May 19, 2017 2:15 pm

I think everybody thats in favour of resigning KCP needs to read this article. It raises some very interesting points and embodies most of my thoughts towards him.

http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2017/5/16/15259110/2016-17-detroit-pistons-review-will-the-invest-in-kentavious-caldwell-pope
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Re: Your Final Evaluation of KCP 

Post#137 » by Pharaoh » Sat May 20, 2017 2:56 am

Until KCP signs an offersheet I'll hold out hope he's not getting the Max

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Re: Your Final Evaluation of KCP 

Post#138 » by ElectricMayhem » Sat May 20, 2017 4:08 am

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2017/05/20/detroit-pistons-kentavious-caldwell-pope/333937001/

Caldwell-Pope, 24, was stopped at 2:52 a.m. March 29 after an officer parked on Auburn Road near Juniper tracked his 2015 Jeep Wrangler going 45 m.p.h. in a 25-m.p.h. zone, according to a police report. He was arrested on suspicion of drunken driving.

On Thursday at 52/3 District Court in Rochester Hills, Judge Julie Nicholson dismissed the OWI charge. Caldwell-Pope pleaded guilty to a reduced charge of allowing a person to drive under the influence. He also admitted responsibility to an added charge of careless driving. He faces a substance abuse evaluation and sentencing scheduled for June 14.

Caldwell-Pope registered a 0.098 blood-alcohol level at the scene. At the Auburn Hills police station, at 4:02 a.m. and 4:06 a.m., he registered 0.08 levels. To drive legally in Michigan, one must be below 0.08.


So, basically KCP didn't drink and drive. Instead, he allowed a drunk person (whoever was in his body at the time) to drive. Makes sense.
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Re: Your Final Evaluation of KCP 

Post#139 » by sc8581 » Sat May 20, 2017 7:32 am

It's my belief that a player like KCP can reach his potential if he is paired with a "real" PG, something close to it, or even a dynamic scorer. How good is Beal without Wall? McCollum without Lillard? Klay without Steph? Bradley without IT? RIP without Chauncey? Reggie Miller without Mark Jackson? The list goes on and on.
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Re: RE: Re: Your Final Evaluation of KCP 

Post#140 » by Pharaoh » Sat May 20, 2017 9:43 am

sc8581 wrote:It's my belief that a player like KCP can reach his potential if he is paired with a "real" PG, something close to it, or even a dynamic scorer. How good is Beal without Wall? McCollum without Lillard? Klay without Steph? Bradley without IT? RIP without Chauncey? Reggie Miller without Mark Jackson? The list goes on and on.

Agree! Gotta have someone delivering the ball to him at the right time in the right spots...

[Rubio]

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