Why det wont move downtown.

[kurtis48239]

Honestly I dont mind them staying put,I dont mind the drive and it isnt so cramped feeling when you go there.

Can you imagine what a nightmare it would be for a Sunday game if the Lions are home, the Tigers are in the playoffs, and the Pistons had a Sunday afternoon game?

the traffic alone would drive you nuts.

[imagump1313]

Many people overlook the fact that on top of 100% ownership of the facility, I'm sure the Pistons also get a sweet deal from the city of Auburn Hills where if they moved to the obnoxiously corrupt city of Detroit, they could be forced to pay off all kinds of backdoor people and city officials. I wouldn't want the headache.
Also, the team has proven that its doesn't need to be downtown to be profitable....

[Manocad]

Honestly I dont mind them staying put,I dont mind the drive and it isnt so cramped feeling when you go there.

Can you imagine what a nightmare it would be for a Sunday game if the Lions are home, the Tigers are in the playoffs, and the Pistons had a Sunday afternoon game?

That scenario could only happen during NBA pre-season, which doesn't draw squat for fans, and is so uncommon that it's silly to list it as a reason not to have the Pistons downtown, which they already have been.

From a fan's perspective it seems like the division is between people who like going into the city for games and those who don't. Avoiding the traffic is easy if you want to do more than just drive to the stadium, go to the game, and drive home. I get down to the city and hang out before the game then hang out after, so traffic is never an issue for me. Not to mention that I've been to PLENTY of Pistons games in the glory years and getting out of a sold out Palace is no picnic.

[DTP]

More or less states what most of us already knew. Owning the Pistons includes more than just the NBA team. That's one reason I'm astounded by the price Gores paid. He got an NBA team, and one of the premier entertainment venues in Michigan, for 325M. As of January, the team was worth 450M if I remember correctly. I don't know if that includes the Palace, but either way, that's a huge bump in a short period of time.

Don't really agree with the part about the Palace being one of the nicest arenas in the NBA. It's nice, but it's nowhere near the ones that have been built within the past 5-10 years. Nothing wrong with that, it's expected, but let's not pretend it's on par with brand new buildings. Granted, I haven't been up there for a couple years, so I don't know what the upgrades have really done.

I guess I never expected them to move, so it's nothing new to me. It would be cool to get all 4 teams downtown, but it's unrealistic.

What arena can't the Palace compete with? I personally think that's bull....the Palace is as nice as just about any other arena in the league....especially the crappy arenas out west.

How many have you been to? I've only been to a few, but I never thought the Palace was anything special. Any league wide rankings of arena's usually put the Palace middle of the pack.

Madison Square Garden and Bankers Fieldhouse. The Palace has always had a reputation as one of the best arenas around and to my knowledge still the biggest capacity wise. There may have been one or two of the newer ones to pass in that area but still, the Palace is right there with just about any other arena. Of course its not MSG or Staples Center....arenas built in huge markets or Barclays center which took a couple of billion to build....doesn't change the fact that although one of the oldest, still one of the best NBA arenas around.

Like I questioned before, please name some arenas the Palace can't compete with? And when this team was worth coming out to watch, people showed up....never had a problem with attendance from 2002-2009 really....because being out in the suburbs isn't the problem. People haven't shown up because just like most other markets, when the team sucks the crowds get low. Once this team puts together a playoff run and gets back to being fun again, the place will be rockin like it was before. With the exception of markets like New York, LA, & Toronto who have fans that are going to sell out the place regardless of the crap on the floor....this is what happens when teams suck.

[epheisey]

What arena can't the Palace compete with? I personally think that's bull....the Palace is as nice as just about any other arena in the league....especially the crappy arenas out west.

How many have you been to? I've only been to a few, but I never thought the Palace was anything special. Any league wide rankings of arena's usually put the Palace middle of the pack.

Madison Square Garden and Bankers Fieldhouse. The Palace has always had a reputation as one of the best arenas around and to my knowledge still the biggest capacity wise. There may have been one or two of the newer ones to pass in that area but still, the Palace is right there with just about any other arena. Of course its not MSG or Staples Center....arenas built in huge markets or Barclays center which took a couple of billion to build....doesn't change the fact that although one of the oldest, still one of the best NBA arenas around.

Like I questioned before, please name some arenas the Palace can't compete with? And when this team was worth coming out to watch, people showed up....never had a problem with attendance from 2002-2009 really....because being out in the suburbs isn't the problem. People haven't shown up because just like most other markets, when the team sucks the crowds get low. Once this team puts together a playoff run and gets back to being fun again, the place will be rockin like it was before. With the exception of markets like New York, LA, & Toronto who have fans that are going to sell out the place regardless of the crap on the floor....this is what happens when teams suck.

I wasn't pointing out anything related to attendance. I'm not really interested in arguing which arena's are nicer, that could entirely be personal opinion. I personally don't see the Palace being in the top 10, but to each their own.

[zeebneeb]

Many people overlook the fact that on top of 100% ownership of the facility, I'm sure the Pistons also get a sweet deal from the city of Auburn Hills where if they moved to the obnoxiously corrupt city of Detroit, they could be forced to pay off all kinds of backdoor people and city officials. I wouldn't want the headache.
Also, the team has proven that its doesn't need to be downtown to be profitable....

This post nails it 100%. Why would anyone in their right mind, Move the team when it's a package deal (building+team)it's a nice place, and it's not in a corrupt, crime ridden city? There is zero upside. Unless something drastic changes, the Pistons are staying put, and, by staying put, it means the Pistons future in Michigan is secure for a long time.

[Manocad]

Many people overlook the fact that on top of 100% ownership of the facility, I'm sure the Pistons also get a sweet deal from the city of Auburn Hills where if they moved to the obnoxiously corrupt city of Detroit, they could be forced to pay off all kinds of backdoor people and city officials. I wouldn't want the headache.
Also, the team has proven that its doesn't need to be downtown to be profitable....

This post nails it 100%. Why would anyone in their right mind, Move the team when it's a package deal (building+team)it's a nice place, and it's not in a corrupt, crime ridden city? There is zero upside. Unless something drastic changes, the Pistons are staying put, and, by staying put, it means the Pistons future in Michigan is secure for a long time.

You wouldn't move the team unless it made financial sense to do so. But you can bet your ass that if Gores was offered a sweet lease deal/tax credits to move the team downtown, he sure as s**t would. A crappy team located downtown would EASILY outdraw a crappy team at the Palace, and if there was a business case suggesting that Gores could make more money by maintaining ownership and leasing space in the new stadium due to larger financial returns via increased attendance, why wouldn't he?

The crime in the city of Detroit is in the neighborhoods, not the entertainment district. Maybe I'm the only one on this board who spends a fair amount of time downtown, but I'm down there A LOT for games, shows, nights out to the casino, etc. And crime has never been an issue for me, even when by myself at night. Granted, if I'm not going to a game I do carry a good-sized pocket knife which probably makes me more dangerous than anyone who might try to approach me with criminal intent. I WILL cut a fool.

[epheisey]

Many people overlook the fact that on top of 100% ownership of the facility, I'm sure the Pistons also get a sweet deal from the city of Auburn Hills where if they moved to the obnoxiously corrupt city of Detroit, they could be forced to pay off all kinds of backdoor people and city officials. I wouldn't want the headache.
Also, the team has proven that its doesn't need to be downtown to be profitable....

This post nails it 100%. Why would anyone in their right mind, Move the team when it's a package deal (building+team)it's a nice place, and it's not in a corrupt, crime ridden city? There is zero upside. Unless something drastic changes, the Pistons are staying put, and, by staying put, it means the Pistons future in Michigan is secure for a long time.

You wouldn't move the team unless it made financial sense to do so. But you can bet your ass that if Gores was offered a sweet lease deal/tax credits to move the team downtown, he sure as s**t would. A crappy team located downtown would EASILY outdraw a crappy team at the Palace, and if there was a business case suggesting that Gores could make more money by maintaining ownership and leasing space in the new stadium due to larger financial returns via increased attendance, why wouldn't he?

The crime in the city of Detroit is in the neighborhoods, not the entertainment district. Maybe I'm the only one on this board who spends a fair amount of time downtown, but I'm down there A LOT for games, shows, nights out to the casino, etc. And crime has never been an issue for me, even when by myself at night. Granted, if I'm not going to a game I do carry a good-sized pocket knife which probably makes me more dangerous than anyone who might try to approach me with criminal intent. I WILL cut a fool.

I lived downtown. They beef up security with off duty officers and DPD focuses on those areas of the city because of the bad press that would come from something happening.

The majority of crime that occurs in those areas is theft from vehicles. Which is why secure parking is worth spending the money for, even if it seems excessive.


On a side note, carrying a blade makes you more dangerous to yourself in most cases than to any potential criminal. You're more likely to end up injuring yourself whipping out a knife in a struggle. Just something I've learned working in law enforcement.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Uncle Mxy]

The Palace isn't just about the Pistons. In November, the Palace has 9 Pistons games, 5 concerts, and 5 days of Ringling Bros. I think that Pistons-to-downtown proposals that don't account for the other Palace operations are just silly pipe dreams. We've seen evidence that a non-crappy Pistons fills up the joint, so why not do that to put butts in seats? Hell, I'd rather see a Pistons team that needs to stay competitive to keep the arena full, rather than the Knicks who can sell out MSG even when their team has been a joke.

[Manocad]

Trust me, I'll take the risk of hurting myself but being able to defend myself over being defenseless and getting beat to hell by two unarmed guys trying to rob me.

And again, the Pistons playing downtown while still being owned by Gores is a simple revenue vs. cost (profit) analysis. If you can increase profit you do it as a businessman regardless of it meaning the Palace is now empty for 41 more nights a year.

[WC NBA Fan]

I will say that I'm a pro downtown Pistons advocate so most will assume that I'm biased but the God honest truth is that I've been to every arena in the league, most on multiple occasions and I can say that the Palace is nowhere near the top of the league. It is one of the oldest buildings in the league so coining it with the term "state of the art" is just wrong which is what a lot of pro Palace people say. I won't get into all the things that are out of date about the arena but having just one concourse and the majority of the suites along the top of the building are 2 that come to mind right away.

That being said, I understand the value of playing in a building you own as opposed to renting downtown. This is why I'd love nothing more than to see the Wings/Pistons owned and controlled by one entity and then have the Palace as a backup to fill dates when the downtown arena is booked. That would be the perfect scenario.

There are 30 teams in the NBA. 29 play within their city limits and when the Warriors and Kings get done with their downtown arenas, all but just 3 of them (Bulls, Spurs and Sxers) will be playing downtown. The NHL and MLB are pretty much the same as well with only the NFL, due to it's weekend and tailgating nature putting many of it's facilities out in the burbs.

Let's go Gores. Platinum Equity makes it's money off of buying assets and selling at a profit. Sell the team and let's see the Pistons leave the burbs and join the rest of the NBA as well as the Tigers, Lions and Wings in the city.

[Blkbrd671]

I think most are missing the point. You need to look at this situation from a business standpoint. Gore just invested X million into renovations in not just the stadium, but FO staff/business culture etc. The downtown arena is not going to be ready for another 3,4,5 years???? MAKES 0 SENSE, to state anything other than , we are staying at the palace, we love the palace, the palace is our home. Once the arena is almost finished, then your going to start hearing rumors of negotiations to sell the palace, or move the piston's downtown.


IMO its just a matter of time , i think Gore see's the revenue potential in a downtown franchise, and the fact the palace can be sold or used for other entertainment purposes. Or Gore is going to sell to a owner who is determined to move the pistons downtown. You look at the man's history, he'd flip the pistons in a split second if someone offered the right amount of money.

[Blkbrd671]

You wouldn't move the team unless it made financial sense to do so. But you can bet your ass that if Gores was offered a sweet lease deal/tax credits to move the team downtown, he sure as s**t would. A crappy team located downtown would EASILY outdraw a crappy team at the Palace, and if there was a business case suggesting that Gores could make more money by maintaining ownership and leasing space in the new stadium due to larger financial returns via increased attendance, why wouldn't he?

The crime in the city of Detroit is in the neighborhoods, not the entertainment district. Maybe I'm the only one on this board who spends a fair amount of time downtown, but I'm down there A LOT for games, shows, nights out to the casino, etc. And crime has never been an issue for me, even when by myself at night. Granted, if I'm not going to a game I do carry a good-sized pocket knife which probably makes me more dangerous than anyone who might try to approach me with criminal intent. I WILL cut a fool.

This is the sort of attitude we need for the city of detroit. Yes the city is ridden with crime because the cities effectively has been abandoned. The only way detroit is going to come back is if ppl take it back.Ford Family, Gores, and Illitch. The City of Detroit may not have money to protect all its citizens, but you can bet your sweet ass that our team owners will insure their fans/revenue safety.

I invite any of you to watch Anthony Bourdain's Detroit series. He's a complete d*, but gives you a little hope for Detroit

[TurboTitan]

Living in Windsor i wish they do

[DTP]

The Palace isn't just about the Pistons. In November, the Palace has 9 Pistons games, 5 concerts, and 5 days of Ringling Bros. I think that Pistons-to-downtown proposals that don't account for the other Palace operations are just silly pipe dreams. We've seen evidence that a non-crappy Pistons fills up the joint, so why not do that to put butts in seats? Hell, I'd rather see a Pistons team that needs to stay competitive to keep the arena full, rather than the Knicks who can sell out MSG even when their team has been a joke.

New York is the biggest market in the league, MSG is the best, most historic arena in the league....there is no comparison, at all! With this team, playing in Detroit...attendance would at most be a couple of hundred more right now. Its the product, not where the team plays.

[Manocad]

The Palace isn't just about the Pistons. In November, the Palace has 9 Pistons games, 5 concerts, and 5 days of Ringling Bros. I think that Pistons-to-downtown proposals that don't account for the other Palace operations are just silly pipe dreams. We've seen evidence that a non-crappy Pistons fills up the joint, so why not do that to put butts in seats? Hell, I'd rather see a Pistons team that needs to stay competitive to keep the arena full, rather than the Knicks who can sell out MSG even when their team has been a joke.

New York is the biggest market in the league, MSG is the best, most historic arena in the league....there is no comparison, at all! With this team, playing in Detroit...attendance would at most be a couple of hundred more right now. Its the product, not where the team plays.

Then why do the the Knicks still sell out when they suck? Move MSG 30 miles outside of NYC and see how many tickets they sell in the down years.

You can get Pistons tickets for next to nothing. The reason no one goes is because A, it's a crappy product and B, THERE IS NOTHING TO DO IN AUBURN HILLS. Put that crappy team downtown around the bars, restaurants and casinos and you can bet your sweet bippy that a lot more than "a couple of hundred more people" will go.

Shoot, look at the Tigers after they moved to Comerica. In 2003, the most horrible year in the history of the team, they still averaged 40+% of capacity. I don't know if you've been to any Pistons game recently but regardless of the number of tickets they say they've sold, the Palace is about 40% of capacity on any given night AT BEST from what I've seen. And the Pistons are hardly in the state the 43-119 Tigers were.

[DTP]

The Palace isn't just about the Pistons. In November, the Palace has 9 Pistons games, 5 concerts, and 5 days of Ringling Bros. I think that Pistons-to-downtown proposals that don't account for the other Palace operations are just silly pipe dreams. We've seen evidence that a non-crappy Pistons fills up the joint, so why not do that to put butts in seats? Hell, I'd rather see a Pistons team that needs to stay competitive to keep the arena full, rather than the Knicks who can sell out MSG even when their team has been a joke.

New York is the biggest market in the league, MSG is the best, most historic arena in the league....there is no comparison, at all! With this team, playing in Detroit...attendance would at most be a couple of hundred more right now. Its the product, not where the team plays.

Then why do the the Knicks still sell out when they suck? Move MSG 30 miles outside of NYC and see how many tickets they sell in the down years.

You can get Pistons tickets for next to nothing. The reason no one goes is because A, it's a crappy product and B, THERE IS NOTHING TO DO IN AUBURN HILLS. Put that crappy team downtown around the bars, restaurants and casinos and you can bet your sweet bippy that a lot more than "a couple of hundred more people" will go.

Shoot, look at the Tigers after they moved to Comerica. In 2003, the most horrible year in the history of the team, they still averaged 40+% of capacity. I don't know if you've been to any Pistons game recently but regardless of the number of tickets they say they've sold, the Palace is about 40% of capacity on any given night AT BEST from what I've seen. And the Pistons are hardly in the state the 43-119 Tigers were.

You aren't understanding the point I'm making about New York. I'm saying the reason they sell out regardless of if the team is good or bad is because the team is in New York City, which happens to be the biggest market in the league. Detroit isn't anything like that....never can or will be. New York is freakin New York......MSG is freakin MSG....no other market in the league can compete with that. Detroit will never be New York city...this is equivalent to trying to compare KCP to LeBron or something. Its an unrealistic, impossible comparison.

Anything new would attract interest right away....but move this team to Detroit and this same type of bad roster is the product 5-6 years for now and the same result would happen. Attendance is a problem because the product sucks, not because people can't get to games.

[Manocad]

You're supporting my point. Like you said, the reason MSG sells out good or bad is because it's IN THE CITY. There are things to do. Put that stadium 30 miles outside NYC in White Plains and you'd damn sure better believe a crappy Knicks team wouldn't sell it out. Detroit will never be NYC and no one ever alluded to any such thing. But you don't need a city of 11 million people to sell out an arena that seats 20,000.

It's not about being able to get to games. It's about the stadium being in an area of activity vs. inactivity.

[WC NBA Fan]

You're supporting my point. Like you said, the reason MSG sells out good or bad is because it's IN THE CITY. There are things to do. Put that stadium 30 miles outside NYC in White Plains and you'd damn sure better believe a crappy Knicks team wouldn't sell it out. Detroit will never be NYC and no one ever alluded to any such thing. But you don't need a city of 11 million people to sell out an arena that seats 20,000.

It's not about being able to get to games. It's about the stadium being in an area of activity vs. inactivity.

Exactly. It's the reason that by 2018, all but just 4 NBA teams will be calling downtown home. And the Bulls, Sixers and Spurs are all within 5 miles of downtown. If that model didn't work, why would teams be doing it?

Everyone except the Pistons in the NBA RIGHT NOW is within 7 miles of downtown as the Warriors currenty play 7 miles south of downtown Oakland while waiting for the downtown SF arena to be built. The Pistons being 30 miles away stand out like a sore thumb as they are far and away the furthest team in league from it's city core.

[WC NBA Fan]

You wouldn't move the team unless it made financial sense to do so. But you can bet your ass that if Gores was offered a sweet lease deal/tax credits to move the team downtown, he sure as s**t would. A crappy team located downtown would EASILY outdraw a crappy team at the Palace, and if there was a business case suggesting that Gores could make more money by maintaining ownership and leasing space in the new stadium due to larger financial returns via increased attendance, why wouldn't he?

The crime in the city of Detroit is in the neighborhoods, not the entertainment district. Maybe I'm the only one on this board who spends a fair amount of time downtown, but I'm down there A LOT for games, shows, nights out to the casino, etc. And crime has never been an issue for me, even when by myself at night. Granted, if I'm not going to a game I do carry a good-sized pocket knife which probably makes me more dangerous than anyone who might try to approach me with criminal intent. I WILL cut a fool.

This is the sort of attitude we need for the city of detroit. Yes the city is ridden with crime because the cities effectively has been abandoned. The only way detroit is going to come back is if ppl take it back.Ford Family, Gores, and Illitch. The City of Detroit may not have money to protect all its citizens, but you can bet your sweet ass that our team owners will insure their fans/revenue safety.

I invite any of you to watch Anthony Bourdain's Detroit series. He's a complete d*, but gives you a little hope for Detroit

Amen!! The problem with Gores is that he's too much of a Beverly Hills guy. He may have been born in Flint and went to Michigan State but that's all the more reason why he likes the Palace. It's closer to Flint and Lansing than Detroit is.

It really boils down to whether or not he sells. You would think that someone who makes his money fixing up distressed assets would jump all over a sale due to the Piston's jump in valuation.

Some of this falls on Gilbert as well. Had he just been patient, the Pistons would've been his. If he is willing to put his money where his mouth is, he'd offer Gores a franchise swap. The Cavs are currently worth more than the Pistons but if he cares about downtown Detroit that much, it's something that he should consider. Lebron is in his 12th season. He won't be this good forever. Before you know it, the Pistons could be more valuable than the Cavs. Gilbert should take the risk and make an offer.