New Pistons Off-Season Plan

blueadams · Post #1 » by **blueadams** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:10 pm

Contracts on the books: B. Jennings(8.4M), J. Meeks(6.3M), *J. Smith(5.4M), A. Drummond(3.3M-TO), C. Martin(1.3M-PO), S. Dinwiddie(0.8M)

Total Salaries: 25.5M. Projected 2015-16 Cap: 66.5M. Projected Cap Space: 41M. (*there are also TO's on K. C-Pope, A. Tolliver and C. Butler...but let's wait and see on those).

Step #1: Sign Draymond Green. He's 24. A UFA, for some reason. Wants to come back to Detroit. Golden State can't afford to keep him. Match made in heaven. Perfect player intangibles-wise. 14th highest WAR in all of basketball. 5th highest defensive RPM in all of basketball. Does a little bit of everything. Solid shooter. Solid scorer. Solid rebounder. Great passer. Great defender. A real glue-guy. At 6-7, 230...with real toughness...I think he could play the 4 too. And he'd be a perfect stretch-4 for SVG's ideal offense. If it takes the max, it takes the max. 14.7M per season. Leaves 26.3M in cap space.

Step #2: Make Kawhi Leonard a max contract offer. 23. 33rd best WAR in all of basketball. 9th best defensive RPM. 37% career 3-pt shooter. Another perfect intangibles guy who does a little bit of everything. 14.7M max offer would leave 11.6M in cap space. Won't waste too much time talking about him, though, as I'd imagine SA will match.

Step #3: Whether we get Leonard or not, sign Khris Middleton. He's a RFA, but it doesn't sound like Milwaukee will be able to keep him. 16th highest WAR in all of basketball. 8th highest defensive RPM. 23. Career 41% 3-pt shooter. Very versatile, position-wise. Another great intangibles guy who does a little bit of everything for you. Not sure what he'd cost. But I'm guessing it wouldn't be more than 10M per season, right?

Step 4: If you don't get Leonard. Use your remaining cap space on one of the following. In order of preference: 1) Danny Green. UFA. 27. 35th best WAR. 32nd best defensive RPM. Career 41% 3pt shooter. Another great intangibles guy who does a little bit of everything. 2) Wesley Matthews. UFA. 28. 27th best WAR. 101st best defensive RPM. Career 39% shooter from 3. Great intangibles guy. Plus -- albeit, not great -- defender. Breakout superstar potential. Could end up being your go-to scorer? 3) Jared Dudley. PO. 29. 41st best WAR. 38th best defensive RPM. 40% career shooter from deep. Just another versatile, great intangibles guy who does a little bit of everything.

Step 5: Go over the cap to RE-sign Reggie Jackson. If it takes the max, it takes the max. Cap jumps up to 80M next season anyhow.

Step 6: Draft an NBA-ready 4 to help out Draymond against more traditional 4's. I currently like Bobby Portis from Arkansas. But we'll see who's available.

Step 7: If possible, pick up K. C-Pope's TO.

Step 8: Find some backup big men with the MLE and LLE extensions, if possible.

...

2015-2016 Pistons:

C: Drummond, ?MLE?, ?LLE?
PF: Dr. Green, ?1st rd?
W: K. Middleton, K. C-Pope, C. Martin
W: ?Leonard/Da. Green/Matthews/Dudley?, Meeks
PG: Jackson, Jennings, DinWiddie

Fast break team! Great athletes at every position. Great defenders at every position. Great two-man game with Dre and Reggie (if they're our young super-stars-to-be, perfect environment). Great shooters on the wing. Good scorers off the bench in Jennnings and Meeks. Good, versatile defender off the bench in C-Pope. Hopefully some serviceable backup big men. All great team guys. All great intangibles guys. That's a team that could really make some noise in a weak East.

Thoughts?

Kilo · Post #2 » by **Kilo** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:16 pm

Impossible. Jackson will have a $5.5M cap hold, and there would be 3-4 minimum roster cap holds as well, and the first round slot cap hold - so we'd be looking more at $30M in cap space. There would be a cap hold on KCP as well, so we're probably looking more at $28M in space - not getting Kawhi, Draymond, Middleton all signed for that. Kawhi will be maxed and SA will match, Dray will get overpaid and GS will match as Lee @15M is off their books in a year.

Also I don't believe you can have/use the MLE if you enter the off-season under the cap - that is only for teams over the cap to start the off-season.

Not to mention we'd have no big man depth as we'd only have vet minimum contracts to offer to round out our roster. Good luck finding a passable back-up center (or two) and a back-up PF worth anything for a vets minimum.

Pharaoh · Post #3 » by **Pharaoh** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:33 pm

Can't be under the cap by more than the MLE, use the space then get the MLE on top!

Best plan:

Draft a quality SF

Sign a quality SF (Harris)

Retain Monroe and Jackson

ImHeisenberg · Post #4 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:42 pm

Draymond Green is a RFA. Golden State is quoted as willing to match "anything". I'm sure they'd hesitate if Green signed a 4-year max, but I wouldn't be too anxious to give it to him either.

Kawhi Leonard leaving San Antonio? You must be crazy.

Middleton. Such obsession with Middleton. Please people, give it a rest. He isn't going to warrant a MLE contract on a good team.

blueadams · Post #5 » by **blueadams** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:50 pm

Kilo wrote:Impossible. Jackson will have a $5.5M cap hold, and there would be 3-4 minimum roster cap holds as well, and the first round slot cap hold - so we'd be looking more at $30M in cap space. There would be a cap hold on KCP as well, so we're probably looking more at $28M in space - not getting Kawhi, Draymond, Middleton all signed for that. Kawhi will be maxed and SA will match, Dray will get overpaid and GS will match as Lee @15M is off their books in a year.

Also I don't believe you can have/use the MLE if you enter the off-season under the cap - that is only for teams over the cap to start the off-season.

Not to mention we'd have no big man depth as we'd only have vet minimum contracts to offer to round out our roster. Good luck finding a passable back-up center (or two) and a back-up PF worth anything for a vets minimum.

Alright, alright. So help me figure this out..

-Jackson's got a 5.5M cap hold.
-1st rd. slot. We're projected to pick ~ 11th ~ right now. 11th pick last season (D. McDermott) got 2.3M.
-No real need to pick up the option on KCP, IMO, so there wouldn't need to be a cap-hold there.
-Leaves 41M - 5.5M - 2.3M = 33.2M in cap space.

SA probably will match a max deal for Leonard -- agree with you there.

I don't believe Draymond is even a restricted FA, though. And I've read that GS won't be able to keep him?

33.2M - 14.7M (max) for Draymond = 18.5M left in space. That should be enough to sign Middleton and Dudley (or Matthews), right?

If we can't use the MLE or LLE. Then I guess you just hope to draft a big man who can give you quality minutes at the 4 *and 5. And that SVG can find some gems with the minimum.

Hotmayo · Post #6 » by **Hotmayo** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:54 pm

blueadams wrote:Contracts on the books: B. Jennings(8.4M), J. Meeks(6.3M), *J. Smith(5.4M), A. Drummond(3.3M-TO), C. Martin(1.3M-PO), S. Dinwiddie(0.8M)

Total Salaries: 25.5M. Projected 2015-16 Cap: 66.5M. Projected Cap Space: 41M. (*there are also TO's on K. C-Pope, A. Tolliver and C. Butler...but let's wait and see on those).

Step #1: Sign Draymond Green. He's 24. A UFA, for some reason. Wants to come back to Detroit. Golden State can't afford to keep him. Match made in heaven. Perfect player intangibles-wise. 14th highest WAR in all of basketball. 5th highest defensive RPM in all of basketball. Does a little bit of everything. Solid shooter. Solid scorer. Solid rebounder. Great passer. Great defender. A real glue-guy. At 6-7, 230...with real toughness...I think he could play the 4 too. And he'd be a perfect stretch-4 for SVG's ideal offense. If it takes the max, it takes the max. 14.7M per season. Leaves 26.3M in cap space.

Step #2: Make Kawhi Leonard a max contract offer. 23. 33rd best WAR in all of basketball. 9th best defensive RPM. 37% career 3-pt shooter. Another perfect intangibles guy who does a little bit of everything. 14.7M max offer would leave 11.6M in cap space. Won't waste too much time talking about him, though, as I'd imagine SA will match.

Step #3: Whether we get Leonard or not, sign Khris Middleton. He's a RFA, but it doesn't sound like Milwaukee will be able to keep him. 16th highest WAR in all of basketball. 8th highest defensive RPM. 23. Career 41% 3-pt shooter. Very versatile, position-wise. Another great intangibles guy who does a little bit of everything for you. Not sure what he'd cost. But I'm guessing it wouldn't be more than 10M per season, right?

Step 4: If you don't get Leonard. Use your remaining cap space on one of the following. In order of preference: 1) Danny Green. UFA. 27. 35th best WAR. 32nd best defensive RPM. Career 41% 3pt shooter. Another great intangibles guy who does a little bit of everything. 2) Wesley Matthews. UFA. 28. 27th best WAR. 101st best defensive RPM. Career 39% shooter from 3. Great intangibles guy. Plus -- albeit, not great -- defender. Breakout superstar potential. Could end up being your go-to scorer? 3) Jared Dudley. PO. 29. 41st best WAR. 38th best defensive RPM. 40% career shooter from deep. Just another versatile, great intangibles guy who does a little bit of everything.

Step 5: Go over the cap to RE-sign Reggie Jackson. If it takes the max, it takes the max. Cap jumps up to 80M next season anyhow.

Step 6: Draft an NBA-ready 4 to help out Draymond against more traditional 4's. I currently like Bobby Portis from Arkansas. But we'll see who's available.

Step 7: If possible, pick up K. C-Pope's TO.

Step 8: Find some backup big men with the MLE and LLE extensions, if possible.

...

2015-2016 Pistons:

C: Drummond, ?MLE?, ?LLE?
PF: Dr. Green, ?1st rd?
W: K. Middleton, K. C-Pope, C. Martin
W: ?Leonard/Da. Green/Matthews/Dudley?, Meeks
PG: Jackson, Jennings, DinWiddie

Fast break team! Great athletes at every position. Great defenders at every position. Great two-man game with Dre and Reggie (if they're our young super-stars-to-be, perfect environment). Great shooters on the wing. Good scorers off the bench in Jennnings and Meeks. Good, versatile defender off the bench in C-Pope. Hopefully some serviceable backup big men. All great team guys. All great intangibles guys. That's a team that could really make some noise in a weak East.

Thoughts?

Wooww ma mann... this is exactly what ive been envisioning for over a yearrrr.. man your officially just as smart as me. Congrats.

It's been obvious to me for like ever that svg wasnt gonna pay moose max. Its dre and reggie thats gonna get the max and now that dray dray is down to be a piston, then thats the type of player you pay the max too. Kris middleton get him as well. Also dray dray is the perfect fit for svg and this whole team/franchise -everything. Everything looks to be happening perfectly. No way golden state is gonna match a max. Sorry not happening.

Mike valenti is that you? :lol:

blueadams · Post #7 » by **blueadams** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:59 pm

Pharaoh wrote:Can't be under the cap by more than the MLE, use the space then get the MLE on top!

Best plan:

Draft a quality SF

Sign a quality SF (Harris)

Retain Monroe and Jackson

Oh cool--so we could use the MLE. Think Tyson Chandler or Louis Williams could be had for that?

Also. What kind of salary ranges are we looking at for Danny Green, Jared Dudley and Wesley Matthews?

sfballa13 · Post #8 » by **sfballa13** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:41 pm

We will have around 29M to sign a top SF free agent and some bench players

But in reality no one will be available:
- Butler (Chicago is not letting him go - esp with Rose/Noah playing like crap this year)
- Leonard (Spurs are matching any offer)
- Green (Best team in the NBA is not going to let their glue guy go bc of one year of luxury tax)
- Harris (Knicks and Phil Jackson will overpay to get him and slide Melo to PF his fave spot)

So who does that leave? Carroll, Middleton?

Our best bet is Harris but he is from New York and most likely will go to the Knicks.

---- /Jennings - Dinwiddie
KCP / Meeks
---- / -----
---- / -----
Drummond / ----

We have alot of roster spots to fill. This is gonna be SVG's make or break off season.

blueadams · Post #9 » by **blueadams** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:44 pm

Ugh.

It does sound like GS's gonna match a max for Green. Same deal with SA/Leonard. CHI/Butler.

Best bet, unfortunately, might be to resign Greg. Then sign Middleton. Then sign Da. Green/Dudley/Matthews, if there's room.

C: Dre, ???, ???
PF: Greg, ???
SF: Middleton, KCP, Martin
SG: Green?, Meeks
PG: Reggie, Jennings, Dinwiddie

Maybe there's a decent stretch-4 you can draft? A good shooting wing if you can't afford one. Use the MLE and/or LLE on some bigs. Still a decent-looking roster.

Ghost · Post #10 » by **Ghost** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:21 pm

You know we were a pretty good team before Jennings got hurt. Crazy idea... Pick up the team options on KCP, Butler, and Tolliver. Sign Anthony to vet minimun.
Draft a small forward / Sign a small forward.. not named: Green, Leonard, or Butler. Actually, I'd be fine with slightly overpaying for any 3/D - Middleton or Carroll* (might not even be available anyway).. maybe Mathews if he's capable of playing up.
Fill out the roster, perferably including a 5th big and 4th pg (because of Jennings injury) and then pay Monroe and Jackson.

Drummond/Monroe/Middleton-Carroll-KCP/Jackson/Jennings S5(assuming he's healthy, if he's not, this is what I want to get to when he finally is). Then when we're ready to make subs: Tolliver can come in for one of Drummond/Monroe and Meeks can come in for one of Jackson/Jennings. Just spaced the floor out a bunch.

MotownMadness · Post #11 » by **MotownMadness** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:26 pm

Gotta resign Monroe for sure. He's just too important in the way he covers all Drummonds weaknesses and vice versa.

russkopp · Post #12 » by **russkopp** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:44 pm

I think stan has to figure out if GS will match anything for Green. If they will you have to sign monroe to a BIG contract after he thought we low balled him this offseason. With the salary cap changes who cares. Sign Reggie, already sounds like he ain't going anywhere. From there Danny green or Middleton would be nice but they're also restricted. Jennings is a trade chip if Reggie pans out.

blueadams · Post #13 » by **blueadams** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:05 pm

russkopp wrote:I think stan has to figure out if GS will match anything for Green. If they will you have to sign monroe to a BIG contract after he thought we low balled him this offseason. With the salary cap changes who cares. Sign Reggie, already sounds like he ain't going anywhere. From there Danny green or Middleton would be nice but they're also restricted. Jennings is a trade chip if Reggie pans out.

Middleton's restricted. Don't believe Da. Green is.

jakebernat · Post #14 » by **jakebernat** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:09 pm

ImHeisenberg wrote:Draymond Green is a RFA. Golden State is quoted as willing to match "anything". I'm sure they'd hesitate if Green signed a 4-year max, but I wouldn't be too anxious to give it to him either.

Kawhi Leonard leaving San Antonio? You must be crazy.

Middleton. Such obsession with Middleton. Please people, give it a rest. He isn't going to warrant a MLE contract on a good team.

Maybe I am a little obsessed, but he's absolutely proven he belongs in this league. He's going to get overpaid, but that's the way coveted RFA's are treated now. He possesses a highly desirable skill in today's NBA, a lethal stoke that he can get off in a heartbeat as well as a well-rounded offensive game. His defense has been surprisingly good too. I expect him to take on a larger offensive role now that Knight's been shipped out of town. You'll come around :wink:

blueadams · Post #15 » by **blueadams** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:16 pm

jakebernat wrote:
ImHeisenberg wrote:Draymond Green is a RFA. Golden State is quoted as willing to match "anything". I'm sure they'd hesitate if Green signed a 4-year max, but I wouldn't be too anxious to give it to him either.

Kawhi Leonard leaving San Antonio? You must be crazy.

Middleton. Such obsession with Middleton. Please people, give it a rest. He isn't going to warrant a MLE contract on a good team.

Maybe I am a little obsessed, but he's absolutely proven he belongs in this league. He's going to get overpaid, but that's the way coveted RFA's are treated now. He possesses a highly desirable skill in today's NBA, a lethal stoke that he can get off in a heartbeat as well as a well-rounded offensive game. His defense has been surprisingly good too. I expect him to take on a larger offensive role now that Knight's been shipped out of town. You'll come around

Middleton's got the 16th highest WAR in the entire league. 8th best defensive RPM in the entire league. Career 41% 3-pt shooter. 23 years old. Great intangibles. Plays 3 different positions.

Only question is -- what's the price?

Post #16 » by **Timmaytime** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:19 pm

Draft Oubre/Winslow/Johnson

Try to sign Draymond

If not resign Moose

Extend Reggie

Probably keep Tolliver

Jackson/Jennings
KCP/Meeks
Draft
Monroe/Tolliver
Drummond

Then just fill out the rotation

jakebernat · Post #17 » by **jakebernat** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:26 pm

Draymond is restricted, let's clear that up now. And the more I think about it, the more I believe GS will match any offer for him, he's just that vital to their success. Also, keeping Curry happy until his next contract has to be the most important move for their franchise.

Also, I just don't buy that Green could co-exist with Drumroe, as much as that pains me to say. Moose or Green would be fantastic, but both would be counterproductive.

Don't underestimate the ability of our core. We have a GREAT thing going right now. There's not a frontcourt in the league outside of maybe Chicago's (who we just dominated,) Memphis's, and NO's (AD is THAT good) that can compete with ours. That is an outstanding identity to have, and this team is figuring that out.

What we truly need is another floor-spacer/offensive glue guy on the wings and a guy who can lockdown the bigger perimeter players in the league. I love KCP, but you can't expect him to check SF's on a nightly basis.

Also, one thing Reggie Jackson will bring to the table, hopefully, is limiting dribble penetration from opposing PG's with his size, length, and athleticism. That has been one of the main problems with our defense as of late and really, all season. I know he hasn't performed all that well on the defensive end, but he's finally playing for a real coach who will absolutely get him to play up to his standards. Look at jennings, for example. He's obviously a small guard who was outmatched physically on a nightly basis, but SVG utilized his quickness and tenacity to put pressure on the ball as much as possible. This helped cover up for his weaknesses. Expect SVG to drill a defensive mindset into RJ.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I fully expect this team to play well down the stretch and open a lot of eyes...

blueadams · Post #18 » by **blueadams** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:42 pm

jakebernat wrote:Draymond is restricted, let's clear that up now. And the more I think about it, the more I believe GS will match any offer for him, he's just that vital to their success. Also, keeping Curry happy until his next contract has to be the most important move for their franchise.

Also, I just don't buy that Green could co-exist with Drumroe, as much as that pains me to say. Moose or Green would be fantastic, but both would be counterproductive.

Don't underestimate the ability of our core. We have a GREAT thing going right now. There's not a frontcourt in the league outside of maybe Chicago's (who we just dominated,) Memphis's, and NO's (AD is THAT good) that can compete with ours. That is an outstanding identity to have, and this team is figuring that out.

What we truly need is another floor-spacer/offensive glue guy on the wings and a guy who can lockdown the bigger perimeter players in the league. I love KCP, but you can't expect him to check SF's on a nightly basis.

Also, one thing Reggie Jackson will bring to the table, hopefully, is limiting dribble penetration from opposing PG's with his size, length, and athleticism. That has been one of the main problems with our defense as of late and really, all season. I know he hasn't performed all that well on the defensive end, but he's finally playing for a real coach who will absolutely get him to play up to his standards. Look at jennings, for example. He's obviously a small guard who was outmatched physically on a nightly basis, but SVG utilized his quickness and tenacity to put pressure on the ball as much as possible. This helped cover up for his weaknesses. Expect SVG to drill a defensive mindset into RJ.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I fully expect this team to play well down the stretch and open a lot of eyes...

Well. Sure. Resign Greg. Sign Middleton. Sign Da. Green/Dudley/Matthews, if there's enough space left. Go over the cap to resign Jackson.

C: Drummond, ???, ???
PF: Monroe, ???
SF: Middleton, KCP, Martin
SG: Green, Meeks
PG: Jackson, Jennings, Dinwiddie

I guess we'll see what the draft gives us.

But. Same team. Same core. Plus two great shooters/wing defenders. Nothing wrong with that.

Post #19 » by **Snakebites** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:50 pm

ImHeisenberg wrote:Draymond Green is a RFA. Golden State is quoted as willing to match "anything". I'm sure they'd hesitate if Green signed a 4-year max, but I wouldn't be too anxious to give it to him either.

Kawhi Leonard leaving San Antonio? You must be crazy.

Middleton. Such obsession with Middleton. Please people, give it a rest. He isn't going to warrant a MLE contract on a good team.

This is correct.

Draymond is an RFA, and I'm not sure how anyone got the impression otherwise. I doubt the Warriors will match ANYTHING, but I'm sure they'd be willing to match beyond what I'd be comfortable paying the guy. They appear willing to pay the tax.

Middleton isn't very good, he'd still be an upgrade for us and I'd be surprised if given his shooting SVG didn't at least conteplate taking a look at him.

And yeah, Kawhi is a pipe dream.

The largest move we will make this offseason is resigning Jackson.

retrolenny · Post #20 » by **retrolenny** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:17 pm

Part of my off season plan would include shipping Meeks out for a roll of dirty toilet paper!!! He sucks!!!