Andre Drummond 2013-2014 vs. Andre Drummond 2014-2015

[Ghost]

I like that he's starting to develop a hook shot. It still shocks me when it goes in but I'm hopeful he keeps working on it.
With SVG there should be continuity for what is being ask out of him on defense. Maybe in a year or 2 he will turn into that anchor we hope he can be.
I hope he spends like 5 hours (minimum) a day shooting free throws over the summer. cmon man!

I would like seeing Drummond face up more and just blow right past guys. Hes quicker and faster than virtually any center hes matched up against.

Yeah and just straight up dunking on people instead his crazy looking layup attempts.

[Lucidity]

His post & touches didnt really exist last year.

Now he is almost automatic on his jump hook

I know the og poster has no clue about actual bball knowledge & goes off highlights & stats but yeah, Drummond is an offensive force now.

[Moses ShamMoses]

His post & touches didnt really exist last year.

Now he is almost automatic on his jump hook

I know the og poster has no clue about actual bball knowledge & goes off highlights & stats but yeah, Drummond is an offensive force now.

Offensive force?!? Maybe on the pick and roll and put-backs but certainly not on post ups. He still has a ways to go before I'd consider his jump hook automatic. Not to be too negative, I do see improvement in his post ups from last year.

[Lucidity]

His post & touches didnt really exist last year.

Now he is almost automatic on his jump hook

I know the og poster has no clue about actual bball knowledge & goes off highlights & stats but yeah, Drummond is an offensive force now.

Offensive force?!? Maybe on the pick and roll and put-backs but certainly not on post ups. He still has a ways to go before I'd consider his jump hook automatic. Not to be too negative, I do see improvement in his post ups from last year.

Way too negative, watch the games man.

[Moses ShamMoses]

His post & touches didnt really exist last year.

Now he is almost automatic on his jump hook

I know the og poster has no clue about actual bball knowledge & goes off highlights & stats but yeah, Drummond is an offensive force now.

Offensive force?!? Maybe on the pick and roll and put-backs but certainly not on post ups. He still has a ways to go before I'd consider his jump hook automatic. Not to be too negative, I do see improvement in his post ups from last year.

Way too negative, watch the games man.

Maybe your definition of automatic is different than mine

[Laimbeer]

Offensive force?!? Maybe on the pick and roll and put-backs but certainly not on post ups. He still has a ways to go before I'd consider his jump hook automatic. Not to be too negative, I do see improvement in his post ups from last year.

Way too negative, watch the games man.

Maybe your definition of automatic is different than mine

Got to agree with MSM here. He's still a guy that primarily gets his offense from alley oops, put backs, and a very limited set of moves very close to the basket. I'm not seeing much develop in the way of fluidity, footwork, post moves, or touch.

Doesn't seem to be developing his defensive smarts, either. Marginal improvement, maybe, but still a disappointing season.

[RSCD3_]

No way you can simply go by the raw stats.

His shooting percentage is down, but he's been asked to actively work on his post game- not just tip-ins and dunks.

I don't have the time to make a big response- but I will say this; there are lies, and damn lies and then there is statistics.

Statistics are facts

Its just how deep of analysis you go into and how you use them in context that gives them validity.

[RSCD3_]

some stats on drummond in the post this year ( NBA.com )

He's posted up the 14th most out of anyone in the league this year ( 3.94 times per game )

Among the top 50 players who post up he's second from last in pts per possession at 0.67 PPP

A postive is that he has a low turnover rate on the block, its only 9.4% which is 14th, really good at holding onto the ball

Since that is pretty good the reason for his low PPP is his

A. Lack of FT's being drawn he's about 35th out 50, and when he does draw fouls he doesnt make them well

B. When he's taking a shot out of the post his FG% is 37 percent ( 85-230 )

Now our spacing hasnt been ideal and everything but

Drummond is still very far from a finished prospect inside of the post.

[joedumars1]

some stats on drummond in the post this year ( NBA.com )

He's posted up the 14th most out of anyone in the league this year ( 3.94 times per game )

Among the top 50 players who post up he's second from last in pts per possession at 0.67 PPP

A postive is that he has a low turnover rate on the block, its only 9.4% which is 14th, really good at holding onto the ball

Since that is pretty good the reason for his low PPP is his

A. Lack of FT's being drawn he's about 35th out 50, and when he does draw fouls he doesnt make them well

B. When he's taking a shot out of the post his FG% is 37 percent ( 85-230 )

Now our spacing hasnt been ideal and everything but

Drummond is still very far from a finished prospect inside of the post.

If it's possible check out the last 30-35 games, his hook in the beginning of the year was horrible, he was also getting fed alot and taking ugly shots instead of passing when he didn't have a good look. He has improved alot from the beginning of the year, no he isn't finished, but the strides he has made are telling imo

[Billl]

Drummond has obviously made major strides in in post game. When he establishes position, catches it low, and goes up in rhythm, he looks really good. He's got his primary move down. What he doesn't have is a counter. If you take away that hook and make him hold it for a second, or pump fake, or whatever, he's totally off his game. To be an efficient post player, at minimum, you need 1 primary move and 1 solid counter.

Last year, he was 0% there. This year, he's 50% there. To get to 100%, he needs a viable counter when guys overplay that hook or really try to body him out. Hopefully, he'll work all summer and come back with a drop step or up-and-under etc. He's got the quickness and balance to do that but its up to him to work on it.

Of course...... if he does add that second element, he'll get guys in the air and end up on the free throw line a lot more. Eventually, he's got to figure that out as well.

[joedumars1]

Drummond has obviously made major strides in in post game. When he establishes position, catches it low, and goes up in rhythm, he looks really good. He's got his primary move down. What he doesn't have is a counter. If you take away that hook and make him hold it for a second, or pump fake, or whatever, he's totally off his game. To be an efficient post player, at minimum, you need 1 primary move and 1 solid counter.

Last year, he was 0% there. This year, he's 50% there. To get to 100%, he needs a viable counter when guys overplay that hook or really try to body him out. Hopefully, he'll work all summer and come back with a drop step or up-and-under etc. He's got the quickness and balance to do that but its up to him to work on it.

Of course...... if he does add that second element, he'll get guys in the air and end up on the free throw line a lot more. Eventually, he's got to figure that out as well.

Nice analysis, Hopefully he can bring the power dunks that he brought against the Celtics more often too,.

[ImHeisenberg]

No way you can simply go by the raw stats.

His shooting percentage is down, but he's been asked to actively work on his post game- not just tip-ins and dunks.

I don't have the time to make a big response- but I will say this; there are lies, and damn lies and then there is statistics.

Statistics are facts

Its just how deep of analysis you go into and how you use them in context that gives them validity.

Statistics can always be skewed to match the context and purpose of whomever is presenting them. Raw stats in a vacuum don't produce a complete picture, for instance.

[whitehops]

posted this in the drummond thread n the PC board: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1337554&p=43152445#p43152445

little bump on his progress.

he's really starting to develop his hook shot now and looks more comfortable going to it. at the start of the year he was getting posted up a decent amount down low and the results were not good. for the month of November he was shooting 45%, after shooting 62% from the field the year before. since February he has been shooting 53.5%. last year he only shot 48 hook shots, making 27 (56%), while this year he has already attempted 171, making 74 (43%).

that's a little skewed, however, as he shot 8 for 29 in October/November (28%) while he has shot 41 for 90 (46%). in the past two months alone he has taken almost twice as many hook shots as he had all last season.


I'm not trying to say that he's been pivoting with both feet, throwing out fakes, etc. his go-to move has simply been a hook shot over his right shoulder, pretty much the most basic shot a big man can take. the difference between now and the beginning of the year is that he looked very awkward when posting up and was often off-balance when shooting. now he is methodically taking controlled dribbles to get into position and then going up balanced for the hook shot. the first step to becoming a dominant post player is to have one g-to move. from there you use the threat of that to go to counter moves, and then counters to those counters. the fact that he's developing his go-to move is a huge plus, especially since SVG seems to be fully supportive of giving him touches in the post. he's been getting about 5-8 post touches a game recently, which is a good number I think for his stage in development.

here are some videos just to give an idea:

against the lowly heat frontcourt
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJg_dIVsoN8[/youtube]

against the raptors
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzPl_W1jWu0[/youtube]

and some POWER
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FplcPL_KtqU[/youtube]


he has taken some clear steps this season so things are definitely looking up for him going into next year.

[joedumars1]

posted this in the drummond thread n the PC board: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1337554&p=43152445#p43152445

little bump on his progress.

he's really starting to develop his hook shot now and looks more comfortable going to it. at the start of the year he was getting posted up a decent amount down low and the results were not good. for the month of November he was shooting 45%, after shooting 62% from the field the year before. since February he has been shooting 53.5%. last year he only shot 48 hook shots, making 27 (56%), while this year he has already attempted 171, making 74 (43%).

that's a little skewed, however, as he shot 8 for 29 in October/November (28%) while he has shot 41 for 90 (46%). in the past two months alone he has taken almost twice as many hook shots as he had all last season.


I'm not trying to say that he's been pivoting with both feet, throwing out fakes, etc. his go-to move has simply been a hook shot over his right shoulder, pretty much the most basic shot a big man can take. the difference between now and the beginning of the year is that he looked very awkward when posting up and was often off-balance when shooting. now he is methodically taking controlled dribbles to get into position and then going up balanced for the hook shot. the first step to becoming a dominant post player is to have one g-to move. from there you use the threat of that to go to counter moves, and then counters to those counters. the fact that he's developing his go-to move is a huge plus, especially since SVG seems to be fully supportive of giving him touches in the post. he's been getting about 5-8 post touches a game recently, which is a good number I think for his stage in development.

here are some videos just to give an idea:

against the lowly heat frontcourt
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJg_dIVsoN8[/youtube]

against the raptors
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzPl_W1jWu0[/youtube]

and some POWER
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FplcPL_KtqU[/youtube]


he has taken some clear steps this season so things are definitely looking up for him going into next year.

Nice post, you should put it in this post toohttp://forums.realgm.com/boards/view ... 3&start=20 , alot of people just don't know how he is developing still.

[whitehops]

Nice post, you should put it in this post too view ... 3&start=20 , alot of people just don't know how he is developing still.

I would but alas, I'm banned from posting in the general board so I can't.


I see you took the initiative to quote my post there, thanks.