Sell me Greg Monroe

[Nazrmohamed]

Knick fan here and I promise, no trolling. You gotta live under a rock not to hear rumors of Knicks possibly getting Monroe, at least from the fans. Funny thing is most knicks fans don't want him and you don't really hear too many Detroit fans jumping to his defense so I really wanted to get the perspective of Detroit fans on the following questions.

-Do you find the recent success that you are having a product of Monroe's futility or more just a system that needs that spacing to thrive and Monroe just being a casualty of circumstance.

-Do you even want to see him go?

-Sell this dude. What does he do well? What are his limitations and at 24 why do people act like he's a finished product?

-Do you think he fits the triangle if we were to get him. For example, I hear lots of weaknesses that I don't really think would be weaknesses in the triangle, which didn't rely on constant pg/C pick and roll and spread offense anyway.

-How do you think he'd fit in with either Towns or Okofor or one of the guards?

Thanks for your time.

[Billl]

1) neither. We went on a similar hot streak with Monroe starting. You don't need 4 jump shooters to have good floor spacing. Of course you need some shooters out there, but you mostly need guys to move the ball and move their body.

2) I don't want to see him go, but others disagree.

3) Monroe doesn't need selling. He's a Center with post moves in a league that completely lacks that. People say he has reached his peak because he doesn't have much athletic upside. He's not going to block a bunch of shots or turn into a defensive stopper. He'll continue to improve, but it will be subtle things like positioning and rotations.

4) Probably not a good fit with Okofor. It's hard to feed 2 bigs in the post consistently. That's half the complaints about him and Dre. Towns has enough of a faceup game to make it work though.

[The Penguin]

He went to Georgetown, will post numbers that look good in a box score and his team may be better without him. Sounds like the perfect Knicks center.

[bballnmike]

1. No, I'd say you need 3 shooters. Drummond and Monroe were great together with 3 shooters (Jennings/Augstine, KCP, and Singler). Add in Reggie who needs space to create and lose Singler, suddenly it's much more crowded without a shooter at the 4.

2. Conditional, with Reggie at point and DrumRoe, then you need excellent shooters at the 2 and 3 (better than Tayshaun). A better shooting point guard, then yes I'd definitely want Monroe back. Iffy shooters, then no it won't work with both Drummond and Monroe.

3. Very polished post game. Great footwork with his back to the basket. Pretty solid at taking his man off the dribble. Above average post defense against centers, but is mismatched if he's guarding athletic/stretch 4s. Very solid passer too. Good rebounder. Limitations: athleticism, but that's more glaring when he's at the 4 than when he is at the 5.

4. Idk enough about the triangle to say if he'd be a good fit or not, but he can score in the post and is a good passer.

5. I think it all depends on what kind of shooters you have

[Ghost]

I'll just go through

-Do you find the recent success that you are having a product of Monroe's futility or more just a system that needs that spacing to thrive and Monroe just being a casualty of circumstance.
Casualty of circumstance, I think the team looks much better with 3 shooters on the floor at the same time. When Monroe plays with Drummond and Jackson, it floods the paint and makes everyone's job more difficult.

-Do you even want to see him go?
Yes and no. I don't want to pay him the max and he doesn't really fit if we're committed to Jackson. I do love him here though to play all the backup center minutes so our offense could constantly be working well. If Jackson can develop a better 3pt shot, the oh yeah, I'd like to keep him.

-Sell this dude. What does he do well? What are his limitations and at 24 why do people act like he's a finished product?
Great footwork/post moves and rebounder, underrated one on one post defender, can pass the ball well for a big. At only 24, it kind of seems like he hasn't advanced his game that much the last couple years. Maybe that's just because of the players and systems around him and the constant instability of the organization. He can hit a mid range shot but lacks confidence/doesn't take enough and is limited with vertical and lateral quickness. Yes, I think he fits the triangle well.

-How do you think he'd fit in with either Towns or Okofor or one of the guards?
I think Towns would be great next to him, you need that big who can rim protect next to him and Towns can step out and knock down a mid-range shot. If the guy is Okafor, that makes absolutely no sense to me , they're rather similar players in the sense of what they do to score. Okafor is just a bit more athletic (and a worse ft shooter). If it's Russell, I think that's fine. If it's Mudiay, I don't like it.

[DetroitSho]

1) neither. We went on a similar hot streak with Monroe starting. You don't need 4 jump shooters to have good floor spacing. Of course you need some shooters out there, but you mostly need guys to move the ball and move their body.

2) I don't want to see him go, but others disagree.

3) Monroe doesn't need selling. He's a Center with post moves in a league that completely lacks that. People say he has reached his peak because he doesn't have much athletic upside. He's not going to block a bunch of shots or turn into a defensive stopper. He'll continue to improve, but it will be subtle things like positioning and rotations.

4) Probably not a good fit with Okofor. It's hard to feed 2 bigs in the post consistently. That's half the complaints about him and Dre. Towns has enough of a faceup game to make it work though.

Yeah pretty much

[vic]

1) neither. We went on a similar hot streak with Monroe starting. You don't need 4 jump shooters to have good floor spacing. Of course you need some shooters out there, but you mostly need guys to move the ball and move their body.

2) I don't want to see him go, but others disagree.

3) Monroe doesn't need selling. He's a Center with post moves in a league that completely lacks that. People say he has reached his peak because he doesn't have much athletic upside. He's not going to block a bunch of shots or turn into a defensive stopper. He'll continue to improve, but it will be subtle things like positioning and rotations.

4) Probably not a good fit with Okofor. It's hard to feed 2 bigs in the post consistently. That's half the complaints about him and Dre. Towns has enough of a faceup game to make it work though.

pretty much this is an accurate answer.

Any team needs 3 shooters to have success its not Monroe's fault none of his coaches figured that out in time. We had a great streak when SVG finally figured it out.

I don't want to see him go, but its up to him. I actually think a stretch 4 off the bench would be amazing behind Monroe.
But if he leaves, now you need a good stretch 4 that can also rebound.
Or a great rebounding SF that can also shoot 3s.

[Nazrmohamed]

Thanks so far, excellent analysis. From afar, that's what I gather too. Its just so crazy. This year it seems that if you are a role player (Draymond G)or even someone just breaking out (Chris Middleton) there's more hype in your quest to get a max than Monroe who to me had about 3 or 4 years of predictable production. Now I wouldn't say he's a primary option (at least at this point) to a championship team but I'm sure most of us agree he's a solid second option under the right circumstances. I just don't understand why he gets so little respect nationally.

I can see if one is arguing him at max vs Green at 10mil but that's not the case. People are talking about Green in max conversations. Not to mention Monroe's max isn't that high considering it's his first contract off his rookie deal if I'm correct. Something like 15mil in a cap environment that will increase by 20mil after next season.

So the way I look at it, even if you signed him for the max at 15 mil, by 2016 that 15 mil would have the same impact as a 12 mil (not exact math)deal does today. Idk, I just feel peoples concerns about paying him that.....You really gotta think about what you're complaining about, especially at his age.

Any thoughts?

[princeofpalace]

1. The team was at its best with Monroe in the lineup, the loss of shooters Jennings, Augstin and Singler hurt the team temporarily. With RJ shooting as well is he is, I think Pistons will look even better with Monroe in the lineup.

2. Not at all, anytime you lose a 17/11 guy for nothing, it hurts the franchise.

3. Monroe is great in the post, and an excellent rebounder. He has very high ball IQ and always makes the right play. He is also a good passer who can run the offense from the high post and he's solid defensively although he struggles to play help defense and can't block shots.

4. Not sure about his fit in the triangle

5. Monroe and Towns would be great together and Greg would work with either guard depending on who the 2/3/4 are.

In any case, there is very little chance that Monroe goes to NYK since he wants to be a part of a winning franchise and the Knicks are even worse than the Pistons. Equal money if the choice is between DET or NYK, you should expect to see Monroe back in a Pistons uniform. I wouldn't put it past Greg to take less money to link up with a winning team though.

[tmorgan]

I disagree about one thing... I think he easily could end up in NY, because I'm not sure the Pistons are going to give him a max offer. SVG is seeing the same things we are, and the team looks better with only one guy in the paint all the time. If only mediocre/rebuilding teams are willing to offer Monroe the 15 mil, I doubt he takes less to go elsewhere (anything is possible, of course).

[MrBigShot]

1. Don't listen to anyone that believes Monroe is an empty stats guy, and the catalyst for us going 6-2 the last 8 games. We've done better without him due to fit, not due to his talent level. When our main 3 guys were Jennings/Monroe/Drummond it worked well, even better than things are now. But Reggie and Monroe both cannot shoot consistently, so they don't fit well together.

2. Don't want to see him go but can't help but feel like it's inevitable.

3. The other posters have basically covered his strengths and weaknesses, but in regards to acting like he's a finished product...one of the biggest knocks on him is that he really hasn't made significant strides in his game since his 2nd season in the league. He'll give you about 16/10 on solid efficiency and provide low post scoring, and that's the way it's been since his sophomore season. Still no jumper, and he doesn't have much upside due to his lack of athleticism.

4. I think he'd be a better fit in the triangle than any other offense in the league offense. Coming out of college one of his most highly touted strengths was his passing ability...he was used as a hub to run the offense at Georgetown and did more of the same here in his 2nd year. He's a pretty good passer, and the past few years that's become one of the more underrated parts of his game. Believe or not he's recorded a triple double with assists.

5. Towns seems like a perfect fit for him. Okafor? Not so much. They would both be very redundant..good offensive players that leave a lot to be desired defensively and don't have much range.

[BadMofoPimp]

Monroe for Melo sounds like a fair deal.

[Cowology]

Monroe is a below average PF, but above average C.

As others have said, spacing has been our biggest problem. He can facilitate from the post where he is a decent passer and can put the ball on the floor, but we've been waiting 3 years for him to develop a consistent mid-range jumper and that hasn't happened. He does have a decently skilled post game with nice footwork.

Solid rebounder and an OK post defender, but don't expect him to protect the rim or even be a particularly good team defender since he's often slow to rotate.

Overall I like him, but not with Dre/RJ and not for what he's likely to get paid. You can have him and would likely be OK provided you don't expect a franchise caliber player just because you are giveng him a big contract. Understand he's a good player, but probably the 3rd or 4th best on a championship caliber team.

[czar]

Monroe is basically Z-Bo without the thugness. It's a joy watching him play, for one who appreciate big guys that has old school slick low-post moves. Will definitely miss him if he was to leave. #ANDONE

[kurtis48239]

If you play him at the 5,you will maxamize his strengths

He is a starting caliber C,with good foot work and a pretty good post game.Not the most athletic,but as a 5 he is fine and he may not block alot of shots,but he is fine defending the post.

I dont think he will get much better than he is now,but with him at C,I can see him as a 18pts/10rb/3-4ast at center on a consistent basis.

I dont think he is a bad player at all,but I do believe with moose out dre has had more room and in turn better stats.I think having a 4 that can hit a consistent shot will make our front court look more balanced and give more space for guys like jackson/kcp to work in the post.

What I like about moose,he is a good consistent guy and will do his job.He does pout alittle to much and whoever gets him will have endless jokes about his trademark AND1111111111.

[princeofpalace]

The idea that Monroe is a "below average PF" is ridiculous. There arent even 15 PFS better than Monroe if you are being honest. Off the top of my head

Superstar: Davis
All Star: Aldridge, Love, Bosh, Dirk, Millsap, Griffin, Gasol
Very Good: Monroe, Ibaka, Green, Favors, Randolph
Average: Morris, West, Young, Garnett, Faried, Jones, Nene
Subpar: Johnson, Anderson, Boozer, Bass, Gordon, Thompson, Splitter, Ilyasova, Amundson, Robinson, Zeller.

And, Monroe is ranked 12th in TRB% so he's clearly more than a "solid rebounder", he's actually a great rebounder. This season, Monroe has scored both scored and rebounded more than he ever has his entire career in less minutes. Since Josh Smith has been gone- Monroe has averaged an efficient 17 points/12 rebounds/2 assists/1 steal. Thats the kind of production you are going to get from Greg Monroe on a nightly basis at either the PF/C spot. Defensively he's solid at either spot but will struggle at PF against the few great stretch 4s out there and struggles at C acting as the last line of defense since he isn't a good help defender. That said, clearly penetrating wing players are more of a threat than the few good jump shooting forwards out there.

[BadMofoPimp]

Here is the deal for Knicks fans. Either:

Monroe and Jennings for Melo Anthony (Knicks could target Harris while Jennings would either be their PG of the future or an attractive expiring for a season.)

Monroe and/or Jennings for their 1st Overall pick this draft.

Those are about the only deals or chances that the Knicks have of obtaining Monroe as the Pistons will most likely match whatever offer sheet they propose.

[chaldoking]

He went to Georgetown, will post numbers that look good in a box score and his team may be better without him. Sounds like the perfect Knicks center.

knicks fans remember david lee. they will adore greg's 20/10. Some might say, wow a 20/10 player, but wonder....

why the knickies can never make the playoffs.. ever

I mean it cant be gregs fault!? hes averaging 20/10!

[whitehops]

1. Do you find the recent success that you are having a product of Monroe's futility or more just a system that needs that spacing to thrive and Monroe just being a casualty of circumstance.

2. Do you even want to see him go?

3. Sell this dude. What does he do well? What are his limitations and at 24 why do people act like he's a finished product?

4. Do you think he fits the triangle if we were to get him. For example, I hear lots of weaknesses that I don't really think would be weaknesses in the triangle, which didn't rely on constant pg/C pick and roll and spread offense anyway.

5. How do you think he'd fit in with either Towns or Okofor or one of the guards?

Thanks for your time.

1. SVG's system is very much reliant on spacing, as the offense is often initiated by a high pick and roll which causes the defense to collapse and scramble. there's also a few actions with screens on the wing that make it easy to get an entry pass into a big on the block, which is really where Monroe thrived when he was the lone big on the floor. lineups with him and Drummond on the floor at the same time were ok, but our best lineups had only one or the other.

2. for the pistons, I do. I have no hard feelings at all towards him, but when you have a talented player and you're only utilizing him to 70% effectiveness (that's a random number), then it's probably best for both parties if he leaves. I wish him the best, wherever he goes.

3. he's a smart player, and plays to his strengths well. he's great in the post, and he has terrific footwork. he's also a good passer, and i'll touch on that later. he's strong and uses that to his advantage down low, it seems like most of his post iso's end up in layups, which is impressive. he's also a pretty good offensive rebounder. his limitations stem almost exclusively from his lack of athleticism, if you ask me. he's a smart defender and is often in the right spot - if he can get there. he struggles making rotations where he needs to cover much ground, he's good at setting high picks but struggles on the roll simply because he can't cover ground quickly and that gives the defense more time to rotate. he also gets stuffed frequently at the rim because he can't jump. he has 20 dunks on the year - think about that. his other limitation would be his lack of jump shot. he *can* hit a 15 foot jump shot but rarely shoots them and hasn't shown any improvement in that area for pretty much his whole career.

4. I think he would be good in the triangle, to be honest. his passing ability is great for the triangle, he's certainly a smart enough player to play in the system and his ability to score in the post would definitely be an asset. the triangle is a fairly old-school system, which is perfect for moose because he's definitely a throwback center.

5. he would have no problem playing next to towns, and I would say he could play next to okafor *in the triangle* if he actually developed that midrange shot. those laker years with pau and Bynum worked because pau could effectively work out of the high post, while Monroe can't do that consistently.


that said, the triangle is actually a system I think Monroe would do well in. it would highlight his strengths, that's for sure.

[dVs33]

Here is the deal for Knicks fans. Either:

Monroe and Jennings for Melo Anthony (Knicks could target Harris while Jennings would either be their PG of the future or an attractive expiring for a season.)

Monroe and/or Jennings for their 1st Overall pick this draft.

Those are about the only deals or chances that the Knicks have of obtaining Monroe as the Pistons will most likely match whatever offer sheet they propose.

Monroe is unrestricted