RFA's K. Leonard, J. Butler, D. Green, T. Harris all going to be max-matched

[roc]

Kawhi with the DPOY

Remember that monster debate about whether Leonard was more valuable than Monroe? It had that nasty Spurs troll all over it.

Can't recall which side I fell on with that "discussion", but I think it's long been put to rest.

I know which side I fell on since I was the one that started the thread... Trade Idea - SAS

Value wise it is still not too far off even in hindsight since Middleton was also a part of it. Def moved more towards our side of the scale during that almost 2 year span.

[princeofpalace]

Just imagine that we couldve drafted Kawhi instead of Knight. Leonard/Moose/Drummond wouldve been amazing. It just goes to show you that value can be found outside of the top 10.

[roc]

Just imagine that we couldve drafted Kawhi instead of Knight. Leonard/Moose/Drummond wouldve been amazing. It just goes to show you that value can be found outside of the top 10.

Sad part... we were targeting Kawhi but Knight fell in draft so he got picked instead.

[Kilo]

Just imagine that we couldve drafted Kawhi instead of Knight. Leonard/Moose/Drummond wouldve been amazing. It just goes to show you that value can be found outside of the top 10.

Yeah but we could have won more games with Kawhi than Knight and Dre could have been picked before us then, or less games and also passed on Dre and drafted Thomas Robinson instead...

[ImHeisenberg]

Just imagine that we couldve drafted Kawhi instead of Knight. Leonard/Moose/Drummond wouldve been amazing. It just goes to show you that value can be found outside of the top 10.

Sorry, doesn't work like that. Draft Leonard to Detroit, he probably doesn't develop a 3 point shot, or even start until after Prince is traded. Draft positioning might be different, never take Drummond, etc. The butterfly effect, hombre.

[joedumars1]

We could've drafted Giannis over Pope for sure

[princeofpalace]

Just imagine that we couldve drafted Kawhi instead of Knight. Leonard/Moose/Drummond wouldve been amazing. It just goes to show you that value can be found outside of the top 10.

Sorry, doesn't work like that. Draft Leonard to Detroit, he probably doesn't develop a 3 point shot, or even start until after Prince is traded. Draft positioning might be different, never take Drummond, etc. The butterfly effect, hombre.

Yeah you are right, without Brandon Knight to start at PG for us, Will Bynum wouldve been the starting meaning Detroit likely is in the running for the # 1 pick. Leonard/Davis/Monroe lol

[Blkbrd671]

Just imagine that we couldve drafted Kawhi instead of Knight. Leonard/Moose/Drummond wouldve been amazing. It just goes to show you that value can be found outside of the top 10.

Sorry, doesn't work like that. Draft Leonard to Detroit, he probably doesn't develop a 3 point shot, or even start until after Prince is traded. Draft positioning might be different, never take Drummond, etc. The butterfly effect, hombre.

great post, i think Leonard would be closer to G. Wallace if he wasn't drafted by SAS. The system there has definitely helped his numbers and development(skillset). Going to be intersting to see what happens when he goes else where

[jakebernat]

I feel like orlando is bluffing about Tobias, especially if they draft a wing like Winslow, hezonja, or oubre. I say give him josh smith money and see what happens.

[mojosodope]

I feel like orlando is bluffing about Tobias, especially if they draft a wing like Winslow, hezonja, or oubre. I say give him josh smith money and see what happens.

We are totally bluffing. No way we would have low balled him for 9m before the past season, and now be prepared to match a max.


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[Kilo]

^Especially when he didn't have a breakout year or anything like that. I just think Orlando is more angling for a S&T so they get something back with the other team not wanting to risk them matching so they throw them a bone - like a future lotto protected first or even forever top 20 protected first that becomes two seconds in three seasons or something. OR they maybe want the team to take Channing Frye off their hands as part of any deal. I could see Detroit open to the latter as Frye could sort of fit here just the same, though he's on the books for 3 more years and $24M.

[The Penguin]

Just imagine that we couldve drafted Kawhi instead of Knight. Leonard/Moose/Drummond wouldve been amazing. It just goes to show you that value can be found outside of the top 10.

Sorry, doesn't work like that. Draft Leonard to Detroit, he probably doesn't develop a 3 point shot, or even start until after Prince is traded. Draft positioning might be different, never take Drummond, etc. The butterfly effect, hombre.

I think you are right on with this point. Guys typically don't go in the top 15 of the draft if they don't have physical tools and the ability to play, ultimately their success in the league depends a lot on what system they go into and what kind of coaching they receive. It's a bit short sighted to assume Kwahi would have been the same player if he would have gone from one of the very best coaches in the league and a system perfect for his game to whatever it is we've been doing for the past 4 years.


Knight (and Middleton) are great examples of this. We can talk all day about why Joe threw them in a deal he might not have needed to, but it's hard to argue we got appropriate value. Now after 2 years in a new environment, Middleton is looking at a potential big pay day and a team gave up a potentially very valuable pick (Lakers top 5 protected) plus Tyler Ennis for Knight.

[DBC10]

Kawhi had a terrible combine though which scared off a lot of NBA execs because of it. He was raw with his shot and just pure lean muscle without any real bulk. There's no way we would have picked him at 8. I like to think we at least trade back with someone though.

[DetroitSho]

We should receive better talent by renouncing GM... a S&T generally brings back nickels on the dollar.
Timing is important... if there are 3 teams jockeying for Monroe this gives us a short window to jump in on their plan B (say Harris)... we can't afford to get pulled into long negotiations or it could be the ugly sister syndrome.

Monroe's cap hold wouldn't stop the Pistons from signing a Harris or negotiating with other free agents after. In essence, Monroe's cap hold is a potential asset until you actually need the capspace to sign additional players. It really doesn't make sense to renounce him until you actually need to agree to terms with someone.

Would it stop us from signing an RFA to an offersheet though? Ie we sign Harris and then Orlando has three days to match - would we have to renounce Monroe to allow the offersheet to be signed or only if/after Orlando decided not to match it?

No it would not. We have enough capspace without renouncing Moose to offer Harris the max.

[Kilo]

Monroe's cap hold wouldn't stop the Pistons from signing a Harris or negotiating with other free agents after. In essence, Monroe's cap hold is a potential asset until you actually need the capspace to sign additional players. It really doesn't make sense to renounce him until you actually need to agree to terms with someone.

Would it stop us from signing an RFA to an offersheet though? Ie we sign Harris and then Orlando has three days to match - would we have to renounce Monroe to allow the offersheet to be signed or only if/after Orlando decided not to match it?

No it would not. We have enough capspace without renouncing Moose to offer Harris the max.

That's if we decline TO's on Butler and Tolliver (and Williams, but that's a given). But I guess should Orl not match we could then renounce Moose and sign those guys back if we wanted them with the money locked up in Monroe's cap hold. Might cost us a bit more on Tolliver, but not too much, and that savings could come from less for Butler who ain't worth $4.5M on the open market.

[ImHeisenberg]

I feel like orlando is bluffing about Tobias, especially if they draft a wing like Winslow, hezonja, or oubre. I say give him josh smith money and see what happens.

It's difficult to say. With the cap set to explode, it seems like every front office feels like they're playing with monopoly money and won't hesitate to lock league average guys into big contracts.

I think Harris is a lot more of a possibility than other RFA's though. He isn't a lock to be matched.

[The Penguin]

Where the Magic go with their draft pick should give a good indication on their intentions with Harris. If they take Cauley-Stein, I take that as a sign they plan on keeping him, if it's Winslow there doesn't seem to be room with Gordon already there too.

[Snakebites]

I don't care whether the Magic are bluffing or not.

I don't want Harris at that price. The others (Green, Butler, Leonard) sure, but that's just a waste of time since they are obvious matches.

[dVs33]

I don't care whether the Magic are bluffing or not.

I don't want Harris at that price. The others (Green, Butler, Leonard) sure, but that's just a waste of time since they are obvious matches.

Butler would be perfect No chance he leaves Chicago.
I'm a big fan of him.

[Warspite]

Would it stop us from signing an RFA to an offersheet though? Ie we sign Harris and then Orlando has three days to match - would we have to renounce Monroe to allow the offersheet to be signed or only if/after Orlando decided not to match it?

No it would not. We have enough capspace without renouncing Moose to offer Harris the max.

That's if we decline TO's on Butler and Tolliver (and Williams, but that's a given). But I guess should Orl not match we could then renounce Moose and sign those guys back if we wanted them with the money locked up in Monroe's cap hold. Might cost us a bit more on Tolliver, but not too much, and that savings could come from less for Butler who ain't worth $4.5M on the open market.

I have a better chance at making 5mil from the lottery than Butler does of making 5 mil from Gores. If he is brought back it will be at the LLE price.