Game 18: Detroit Pistons (8-9) vs. Houston Rockets (7-10) - 7:30 PM ET

[Blkbrd671]

9 losses:
82-94 vs. Indiana- Andre was 1-2 from the line.
95-109 @ Warriors- Andre was 0-2 from the line.
92-101 @ Kings- Andre was 0-2 from the line.
96-101 @Clippers- Andre was 6-14 from the line.
85-97 @ Lakers- Andre was 1-2 from the line.
95-97 vs. Wizards- Andre was 2-4 from the line.
88-109 @ Bucks- Andre was 3-4 from the line.
87-103 @ OKC- Andre was 1-2 from the line.
83-87 @ Brooklyn- Andre was 2-11 at the line.

Not just final score, Andre's free throws were not a factor in the other losses outside of two games. Our offense wasn't altered. The flow didn't change from him going 1-2 or 0-2. He has had 9 games where he's even attempted more than a handful of free throws in the game, and the team is 7-2 in those games.

Right now, there is absolutely no correlation between Andre's free throw percentage and the team's winning percentage. If anything, we seem to win the games he gets to the line more often. Ironic as that may appear.

Thank you for that liquorish. I mean i said that a couple post ago that Dre's such a poor FT shooter i highly doubt there is much there.

What i did mention and maybe a different stat to research is how effective the hack a dre has been in regards to forcing dre to be removed from the game and whether that lead to scoring runs from the other team. I think we'd maybe see a better correlation.

Its basically debating the hack a dre strategy and whether when employed it works on the pistons. I would probably say its 50/50 in that it sometimes works other times hurts the team employing it.

I don't have the data to back it up, but from watching the games, I see Dre sitting and being pulled from games more to prevent foul trouble than any free throw issues. Especially late in quarters.

ya his stat line last night in limited minutes doesn't help my assumption

[Blkbrd671]

If you lack fundamentals or proper technique then obviously they are going to struggle more as your mentally impacted. NEWS FLASH: Dre has poor technique.

i'll say one thing, Dre's form isn't bad, he chicken wings a little, but for most part the foundations are there.

i know you think your proving i am contradicting myself. But your not.

Dre just lack fundementals and proper technique, but foundations are there. it starts from his hip, as oppose to over his head, he follows through to the rim, and has developed a ritual. As oppose to MKG, whom lacks fundementals and proper technique, and foundations most certainly aren't there.

nice try.

i also saw you honor me buy by putting me on your signature. Thank you for that, didn't realize i meant so much to you.

[Arp590]

I am just simply asking for some substance to back the argument. He has provided little if any, and fails to rebuttle. Arps point has no basis, and everytime he tried to provide a basis, he just dug a deeper hole.

Its one thing if he provided valid argument and backed his point and i just disagreed. He has yet to provide a valid argument or back his point. I am not arguing just to argue, i am arguing because he's just plain wrong.

Once again, I never started an argument stating that we have lost many games because of Dre's FT%, please quote this post from me.
The only "point" that I made was that this could prove to be a concern in the future.
You were the one that started referencing past games, i'm simply talking about future concerns. (Which is logical to do, rather than waiting until after we lose games to address problems)

At no point did I say there was a correlation between Dre missing FTs and our losses, the only loss I mentioned was the Nets one because you created this argument and asked for a specific example. (For a point that I never attempted to make anywhere)
Please go re-read the post and they will confirm this.

You are really arguing over nothing at this point.

[Arp590]

i also saw you honor me buy by putting me on your signature. Thank you for that, didn't realize i meant so much to you.

What can I say, you're an inspiration.

[Cowology]

Teams typically go hack-a-shaq when they are losing, so it's no surprising there is a correlation between teams using this strategy and losing. It's like saying teams who throw a hail mary usually lose, so the hail mary must be a losing play. Not that it's quite as extreme, but I'm trying to paint a clear picture here.

Anyway, you guys can keep repeating how Dre's FT shooting hasn't been a major factor yet. That's great. You win the "argument nobody is really arguing against" argument. Nice job. Good luck hoping that holds up the entire season.

[Blkbrd671]

]
Once again, I never started an argument stating that we have lost many games because of Dre's FT%, please quote this post from me.

You can't defend 22%. Especially when it means the difference between winning and losing.

The only "point" that I made was that this could prove to be a concern in the future.
You were the one that started referencing past games, i'm simply talking about future concerns. (Which is logical to do, rather than waiting until after we lose games to address problems)

The problem is that your "perceived problem" isnt a problem. and you have failed consistently to provide any evidence that it is a problem. Liquorish already shut that down.

At no point did I say there was a correlation between Dre missing FTs and our losses, the only loss I mentioned was the Nets one because you created this argument and asked for a specific example. (For a point that I never attempted to make anywhere)
Please go re-read the post and they will confirm this.

You are really arguing over nothing at this point.

Honestly bud i am tired of your contradictions and over this conversation. Evidence has already been provided to disprove your thought that Dre's poor ft% effects our wins and losses. Get over it, its not impacting our team in the way you think.

[Arp590]

]
Once again, I never started an argument stating that we have lost many games because of Dre's FT%, please quote this post from me.

You can't defend 22%. Especially when it means the difference between winning and losing.

Is this the post...? I don't see where I mentioned us losing games because of Dre's FT %.

The only "point" that I made was that this could prove to be a concern in the future.
You were the one that started referencing past games, i'm simply talking about future concerns. (Which is logical to do, rather than waiting until after we lose games to address problems)

The problem is that your "perceived problem" isnt a problem. and you have failed consistently to provide any evidence that it is a problem. Liquorish already shut that down.

38% FT shooting isn't a problem? Okay then bud.

At no point did I say there was a correlation between Dre missing FTs and our losses, the only loss I mentioned was the Nets one because you created this argument and asked for a specific example. (For a point that I never attempted to make anywhere)
Please go re-read the post and they will confirm this.

You are really arguing over nothing at this point.

Honestly bud i am tired of your contradictions and over this conversation. Evidence has already been provided to disprove your thought that Dre's poor ft% effects our wins and losses. Get over it, its not impacting our team in the way you think.

Once again I fail to see where I started this argument, you are arguing about something that nobody is arguing with.
Where is "my thought" that Dre's poor FT% *affects our wins and losses?? I said 22% FT shooting can be the difference between a win and a loss. At no point did I say that it caused any of our previous losses.

I see you were unable to find where this argument started, that's because the argument was created by you.. you are arguing with no one.

Just because something hasn't proven to be an issue thus far, doesn't mean it won't be an issue in the future.
Look back to our start of the season, we were winning but there were issues that needed to be corrected. These issues started to result in losses as the season moved forward. You can't ignore these things just because we are winning, it's about continuous improvement.

[Blkbrd671]

Teams typically go hack-a-shaq when they are losing, so it's no surprising there is a correlation between teams using this strategy and losing. It's like saying teams who throw a hail mary usually lose, so the hail mary must be a losing play. Not that it's quite as extreme, but I'm trying to paint a clear picture here.

Anyway, you guys can keep repeating how Dre's FT shooting hasn't been a major factor yet. That's great. You win the "argument nobody is really arguing against" argument. Nice job. Good luck hoping that holds up the entire season.

You can't defend 22%. Especially when it means the difference between winning and losing.

There's one person arguing it and several posters alluded to it. Honestly i am glad that there was this discussion as thanks to liquorish we now know there is no real correlation. As it was very much a question of "does it?"

I really don't think his FT % matters because he's so poor. I think its more so when you see dramatic increases vs decreases over games. Furthermore, the hack a shaq has been employed over the league for how many years, and there is still any evidence that it consistently works. Teams use it as another "option" when everything isn't working. I don't think theres any gurantee it'll have the intended impact and is always a risk.

[Arp590]

You can't defend 22%. Especially when it means the difference between winning and losing.

There's one person arguing it and several posters alluded to it. Honestly i am glad that there was this discussion as thanks to liquorish we now know there is no real correlation. As it was very much a question of "does it?"

You are quoting that post but nowhere does it state that we have lost games because of Dre missing FTs, I never tried to make that point.

It simply reads that shooting 22% could possibly result in the difference between a win or a loss.

[Blkbrd671]

Spoiler:

Once again I fail to see where I started this argument, you are arguing about something that nobody is arguing with.
Where is "my thought" that Dre's poor FT% *affects our wins and losses?? I said 22% FT shooting can be the difference between a win and a loss. At no point did I say that it caused any of our previous losses.

I see you were unable to find where this argument started, that's because the argument was created by you.. you are arguing with no one.

Just because something hasn't proven to be an issue thus far, doesn't mean it won't be an issue in the future.
Look back to our start of the season, we were winning but there were issues that needed to be corrected. These issues started to result in losses as the season moved forward. You can't ignore these things just because we are winning, it's about continuous improvement.

If anyone has questions about the discussion they can re-read it themselves.

as i said earlier, i am done with this discussion. really no point as Liquorish has already disproved the assumption. You want to continue to ignore reality then by all means continue, i'll just ignore them when they are obviously not well thought out.

[Arp590]

as i said earlier, i am done with this discussion. really no point as Liquorish has already disproved the assumption.

Still ignoring the fact that no one tried to make this assumption. If I were you I would be done with this discussion too after you realized that you were arguing a point that nobody tried to make.

[Blkbrd671]

You can't defend 22%. Especially when it means the difference between winning and losing.

There's one person arguing it and several posters alluded to it. Honestly i am glad that there was this discussion as thanks to liquorish we now know there is no real correlation. As it was very much a question of "does it?"

You are quoting that post but nowhere does it state that we have lost games because of Dre missing FTs, I never tried to make that point.

It simply reads that shooting 22% could possibly result in the difference between a win or a loss.

Dre went 4-18. For those who struggle with math thats 22%. If you want to take this route and act like you weren't discussing dre. That is fine, don't care at this point. Its on the thread, posters aren't naive.

[Blkbrd671]

In other news, i really didn't realize how our team really looks at RJ as their leader. Maybe its because i see RJ as still young, but when our playres reference him you can tell they sort of know he's there best player(outside of dre)

[Arp590]

There's one person arguing it and several posters alluded to it. Honestly i am glad that there was this discussion as thanks to liquorish we now know there is no real correlation. As it was very much a question of "does it?"

You are quoting that post but nowhere does it state that we have lost games because of Dre missing FTs, I never tried to make that point.

It simply reads that shooting 22% could possibly result in the difference between a win or a loss.

Dre went 4-18. For those who struggle with math thats 22%. If you want to take this route and act like you weren't discussing dre. That is fine, don't care at this point. Its on the thread, posters aren't naive.

I don't deny discussing Dre..? we WON when he shot 22%.. So how exactly is this me implying that we lost games because of him shooting 22%?
You just helped prove the meaning behind my post.

Please lock this thread, there is nothing left to discuss unless BlkBrd wants to continue arguing against a correlation that no one tried to make. (When referring to past games)

[Blkbrd671]

/thread