Bogut Watch - now with AdonalFoyle4Prez's poll

[floppymoose]

Listen to the Myers interview, how did Myers string anyone along? He says that Bogut picked the 7-10 days. He says they could say "indefinitely". He says it could be more or less time depending on how Bogut reacted to treatment. He said "we don't know" about as many ways as possible.

He also was explicitly asked about negative fan reaction if Bogut was out more than 10 days. And Meyers more or less said that he expected that and there wasn't much they could do about it. It comes with the territory when you are rolling with the best information you have but are addressing an audience who demand perfect knowledge immediately.

[FireNellieQuick]

Were they open and honest about the 20-minute limit on Bogut to start the season? Myers said they knew about that since April, so why wasn't it made public until Opening Night?

I'm not calling them liars, but they weren't forthcoming with that fairly significant piece of information.

Well for starters, there's no way that something said in April carries into late October without progress checks. It's not even significant if they did it 2 weeks before even - things can change exceptionally quickly. For them to warn about something that was over 6 months away would have been a bad PR move, and just a useless move overall. Trying to tie it to season tickets or some other reason to try and bash... its a weak excuse.

Personally I dont think doctors really have any idea to correlate how injured = how much playing time. I cant count how many times I told football players to limit their downs, play one side of the ball, etc etc... to have them back the next week after playing every down both ways. To me, any time a medical person puts a time restriction on someone, its to cover their own ass. Got injured? Did you play exactly under the minutes I told you? Well then its your fault. The equivalent of a dentist telling you to floss, or a doctor telling a fat person to eat healthy. It really doesn't bear weight.

But the fact that it was 6 months before-hand and people are trying to make that seem sinister... well, I think thats a weakly veiled agenda argument. Do you guys value what Rush's prognosis is, right this second? Or do details matter way way down the line?

[cladden]

Were they open and honest about the 20-minute limit on Bogut to start the season? Myers said they knew about that since April, so why wasn't it made public until Opening Night?

I'm not calling them liars, but they weren't forthcoming with that fairly significant piece of information.

Well for starters, there's no way that something said in April carries into late October without progress checks. It's not even significant if they did it 2 weeks before even - things can change exceptionally quickly. For them to warn about something that was over 6 months away would have been a bad PR move, and just a useless move overall. Trying to tie it to season tickets or some other reason to try and bash... its a weak excuse.

Personally I dont think doctors really have any idea to correlate how injured = how much playing time. I cant count how many times I told football players to limit their downs, play one side of the ball, etc etc... to have them back the next week after playing every down both ways. To me, any time a medical person puts a time restriction on someone, its to cover their own ass. Got injured? Did you play exactly under the minutes I told you? Well then its your fault. The equivalent of a dentist telling you to floss, or a doctor telling a fat person to eat healthy. It really doesn't bear weight.

But the fact that it was 6 months before-hand and people are trying to make that seem sinister... well, I think thats a weakly veiled agenda argument. Do you guys value what Rush's prognosis is, right this second? Or do details matter way way down the line?

+1 Noone would ever volunteer such a prognosis for no good reason having very little knowledge of whether it's going to be true at the time. People need to realize that the Warriors needs to do what's best for the Warriors which includes not randomly delivering long-term negative predictions just before season ticket sales start. I kinda didn't expect that from Evanz. Would your company do this? Would you have done it if you ran the Warriors?

[EvanZ]

+1 Noone would ever volunteer such a prognosis for no good reason having very little knowledge of whether it's going to be true at the time. People need to realize that the Warriors needs to do what's best for the Warriors which includes not randomly delivering long-term negative predictions just before season ticket sales start. I kinda didn't expect that from Evanz. Would your company do this? Would you have done it if you ran the Warriors?

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on a minute. This was not "random". This was a plan set in motion several months prior. To quote someone famous, "This was the PROCESS." Oh wait, it's right here in plain English.

Ferkel -- who has repaired the ankles of Ray Allen and Manu Ginobili -- recommended from the beginning that Bogut be on the shelf for six months. Then, he laid out "the process," which limits him to 20 minutes per game, prohibits playing in back-to-back games and calls for constant monitoring.

At the end of November, Ferkel and the Warriors' doctors will come up with the next phase of the plan based on Bogut's progress.

"Bogut has been cleared," Warriors general manager Bob Myers explained. "But if you're a runner and you injure your foot, you don't immediately come back and run a marathon."

So if your idea is that they didn't know for sure, well, I disagree. The moral implications are for everyone to decide for themselves.

[FireNellieQuick]

Are you suggesting that plans can't and shouldnt change? That medicine is an exact science that can be predicted? Because that seems to be the implication.

If we were in a close game in November and Bogut was ahead of schedule, bet your ass Bogut would play more than 20 minutes, Ferkel or not. Ditto back to back games. There's again no reason for the Warriors to relay news like that when they really don't know whether or not it's going to be applicable 6 months down the road.

[EvanZ]

Are you suggesting that plans can't and shouldnt change? That medicine is an exact science that can be predicted? Because that seems to be the implication.

I'm curious about something. If the idea is that they shouldn't report on things that are unknown why is it ok for them to speculate like this?

“A timetable for the return to basketball-related activities for Curry and Bogut will be determined following surgery, but both players are expected to be ready for the start of training camp in October."

http://blog.sfgate.com/warriors/2012/04 ... and-bogut/

That's from a story back in April. Now, I imagine you're going to say that it's ok, because they said "expected to be ready" and so there is clearly some qualification there.

But we now know that they also "expected" that Bogut would be on a minutes restriction, yet you won't find a single quote to that effect from before a few weeks ago. Why is that?

$$$

[FireNellieQuick]

We're now into breaking down things way beyond reason. What's ready? Does that mean 100%? Does it mean they'll be able to participate at a reduced %?

I mean we can break down this stuff all the way down to syllables. The point is that they never needed to address something specfic 6 months in advance because that's ridiculous. And they didn't, even in your most recent post. Medicine is far too random to do that.

[EvanZ]

We're now into breaking down things way beyond reason. What's ready? Does that mean 100%? Does it mean they'll be able to participate at a reduced %?

I mean we can break down this stuff all the way down to syllables. The point is that they never needed to address something specfic 6 months in advance because that's ridiculous. And they didn't, even in your most recent post. Medicine is far too random to do that.

You sound like a PR professional. Let's be honest here. They were not entirely forthcoming with the regimen he was going to be on. There was no legal obligation to disclose it. But where we differ is that I think there was a moral obligation to tell the fans what was up, to the best of their knowledge.

They did have a plan. And they actually did stick to that plan. They just didn't tell the fans about it until the tickets were sold.

[GSForever]

Ws management is doing everything they can to do the right thing. Thing is a big rugged C like Bogut. An extreme ankle injury hard to predict for a player of his size. Treatment and practice can't simulate fame situation

[FireNellieQuick]

In medicine, we go to an obscene # of conferences yearly, because the saying is that everything you knew 2 years ago is now obsolete.

Now you are right, there's no legal obligation to disclose it. There's also no obligation to follow it. There's also no reason for them to announce what a doctor's prediction is for something 6 months down the road. Even as a professional, even as good as Ferkel is, you cannot be consistently accurate with that kind of analysis 6 months down the road. You can give an average, but that's about it. So withholding that isn't really withholding information. It's not information. It's a guess that can and shouldn't be counted on, educated as it may be.

In fact, I would think Ferkel's strategy, from the W's side, would represent the worst case scenario for the W's. If he's not 100% opening day, they go with Ferkel's guidelines.

[Souvlaki]

Who cares when Bogut comes back. We only have 20 minutes (if that) for the center position a night anyway.

[Badly Browned]

Who cares when Bogut comes back. We only have 20 minutes (if that) for the center position a night anyway.

Nah, Bogut comes back and that means less Lee-Landry in the 4th.

[9abovetherim]

Who cares when Bogut comes back. We only have 20 minutes (if that) for the center position a night anyway.

Nah, Bogut comes back and that means less Lee-Landry in the 4th.

like 2 minutes less.

you're welcome, signed by Mark Jackson.

[FireNellieQuick]

You guys are aware that statistically they've been our best combo right?

http://www.82games.com/1213/1213GSW2.HTM

I didnt believe it til I saw it either... but our offense takes a super spike and our eFGA is off the charts good at .370 and .379... we usually win the TO and rebounding battles too with those two.

[Frank Mulely]

bottom line anybody who expected Bogut to come back and play like he did before he got his injur(ies) was just naive. stop listening to team hype and use your brain. plenty of us were on the board expressing skepticism that Bogut was going to just come right back and dominate this year. this is a recovery year and most likely Bogut will not get back to a reasonable facsimile of his old self until next year.

the real issue here is fans are incredibly gullible and fell for all those rosy pre-season projects of the Warriors being a playoff team this year. come on now. honestly the only way that happens is if Barnes starts really dominating.