[MERGED] Klay Thompson

[whocurrz]

WT says that Klay's contract, although it looks like a max contract it is a fixed amount rather than a true max that is a certain percentage if the cap. That's good news going forward when the cap raises

[Left*My*Heart]

Looks like a good deal.

[Xplatformer]

I don't think highly of anyone of the team not named Bogut or Curry. They are the keys to everything we do this season. The other guys are products of the them. Iguodala on the bench is a more important piece than Klay. Klay is a real good player but playing alongside Steph does overvalue him. Still a limited player. He's a plus but the shooting guard position sucks. I still don't think he's a game changer. A max player should be able to carry the team on their shoulders...I don't think he's capable of that at all.

I have to respect the consistency. Klay has proving you wrong and yet you stick to your guns. Sort of reminds me a religious or environmental debate. Despite the mounting evidence that your position is illogical, you pivot and search for new things to defend on.

Good luck with this season!

He's been the best player so far and it's not even close. He's improving. I don't what him to not succeed, I want him to maximize his potential. I want him to succeed. But I don't see him as anything other than a role player on this team. There's 2 key pieces and 13 role players (15 players on roster right?). He's a good role player and it's not a knock on him to be a role player. Once teams start adjusting to him let's see how he reacts. He's done things I didn't think was capable (dribble) but dribbling through traffic is still an issue. Curry on the other hand makes everyone better. Bogut and Iguodala the same. Klay, Lee, Barnes make themselves better.

Wrong. There are THREE key pieces of this team. Imo, to win a chip all 3 are going to need to 1) be healthy and 2) play lights out on both sides of the ball to beat Houston, Memphis, OKC and the Clips.

Klay is one of the teams STARS whether you want to catagorize him as one or not.

[likashing]

Could be for a few more games before Lee gets back into the swing of things. As it stands, he appears to be carrying the load for us, that and while Steph is still trying to get untracked (although he's 8th in scoring at the moment @25.3).

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/playe ... asontype/2

What's pretty impressive to me is in comparison to Harden (who's shooting just 36.7 % on fg, and 35.3% on 3s) Klay is shooting 53.7% on fg and 45.5% on 3s. Not to mention his 91.3% clip from the charity line.

TS% is a better indicator. If he can sustain a TS% of .600 through the All-Star break, he will have really removed his reputation of being inefficient on offense.

[a8bil]

Could be for a few more games before Lee gets back into the swing of things. As it stands, he appears to be carrying the load for us, that and while Steph is still trying to get untracked (although he's 8th in scoring at the moment @25.3).

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/playe ... asontype/2

What's pretty impressive to me is in comparison to Harden (who's shooting just 36.7 % on fg, and 35.3% on 3s) Klay is shooting 53.7% on fg and 45.5% on 3s. Not to mention his 91.3% clip from the charity line.

TS% is a better indicator. If he can sustain a TS% of .600 through the All-Star break, he will have really removed his reputation of being inefficient on offense.

Is it? TS% uses a factor (.44) which is just an estimate. It may be accurate, but it may just as well skew results, and when you're differentiating players based on a 2-3% difference in TS%, the use of an estimate matters. If you're going to break things down to points per possession, it also matters how many possessions a player gives up as a result of a TO, as that should be the equivalent of a missed shot.

[Mylie10]

From a simple understanding for some......If Klay continues to get to the line with 5+ attempts per game, shoots a high FT%, take a large volume of 3 point shots at a 40% or better mark, and shoot an overall fg% of 45% or better, you will have yourself a bonafide star.

Now if we can add more assists and a couple more rebounds, then dang my man.

[likashing]

Could be for a few more games before Lee gets back into the swing of things. As it stands, he appears to be carrying the load for us, that and while Steph is still trying to get untracked (although he's 8th in scoring at the moment @25.3).

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/playe ... asontype/2

What's pretty impressive to me is in comparison to Harden (who's shooting just 36.7 % on fg, and 35.3% on 3s) Klay is shooting 53.7% on fg and 45.5% on 3s. Not to mention his 91.3% clip from the charity line.

TS% is a better indicator. If he can sustain a TS% of .600 through the All-Star break, he will have really removed his reputation of being inefficient on offense.

Is it? TS% uses a factor (.44) which is just an estimate. It may be accurate, but it may just as well skew results, and when you're differentiating players based on a 2-3% difference in TS%, the use of an estimate matters. If you're going to break things down to points per possession, it also matters how many possessions a player gives up as a result of a TO, as that should be the equivalent of a missed shot.

No stat is perfect. He was inefficient offensively last season, even he himself admitted in an interview. He's great so far in 4 games getting FTs, which is what we expect for his price tag. But if you are doing sub .550 TS%, you can't claim you are a great offensive player. I don't mind if he's .589 instead of .600. I'm not as obsessed as you. Or you are like those Laker fans who think Kobe is great averaging 28ppg at .488TS%?

[a8bil]

TS% is a better indicator. If he can sustain a TS% of .600 through the All-Star break, he will have really removed his reputation of being inefficient on offense.

Is it? TS% uses a factor (.44) which is just an estimate. It may be accurate, but it may just as well skew results, and when you're differentiating players based on a 2-3% difference in TS%, the use of an estimate matters. If you're going to break things down to points per possession, it also matters how many possessions a player gives up as a result of a TO, as that should be the equivalent of a missed shot.

No stat is perfect. He was inefficient offensively last season, even he himself admitted in an interview. He's great so far in 4 games getting FTs, which is what we expect for his price tag. But if you are doing sub .550 TS%, you can't claim you are a great offensive player. I don't mind if he's .589 instead of .600. I'm not as obsessed as you. Or you are like those Laker fans who think Kobe is great averaging 28ppg at .488TS%?

No, I'm one of those guys who takes stat nerds to task for always relying on flawed stats, but ignoring their flaws. BTW, Klay was over .55 TS%, so he was great by your standard. Klay did not say he was inefficient last year, he said he wants to improve his efficiency this year (apparently from "great" under your standard). And you ignore the issue of TOs, which is just as much a blown offensive possession as a missed shot is. Guys like Harden had more than twice as many TOV per game as Klay did last year. Factor those in, adjust for true shooting percentages, and I'm guessing the difference between Harden and Klay was negligible. But you keep citing your flawed stats if they make you feel good.

[FNQ]

I'll take a flawed stat with a consistent estimate over a fan's eyeballs any day of the week.. like others, it's pretty silly to differentiate it when the difference is negligible. But TS% isn't supposed to account for turnovers, or offensive efficiency. It accounts for shooting efficiency.

That's why losing synergy sucks - PPP (points per possession) gave, IMO, the best individual indicator of offensive efficiency. Then you cross check that with volume, and have a very good idea of how good of a scorer you have.

I don't think citing the flaws of a stat every time you cite one is a reasonable expectation.

[likashing]

Is it? TS% uses a factor (.44) which is just an estimate. It may be accurate, but it may just as well skew results, and when you're differentiating players based on a 2-3% difference in TS%, the use of an estimate matters. If you're going to break things down to points per possession, it also matters how many possessions a player gives up as a result of a TO, as that should be the equivalent of a missed shot.

No stat is perfect. He was inefficient offensively last season, even he himself admitted in an interview. He's great so far in 4 games getting FTs, which is what we expect for his price tag. But if you are doing sub .550 TS%, you can't claim you are a great offensive player. I don't mind if he's .589 instead of .600. I'm not as obsessed as you. Or you are like those Laker fans who think Kobe is great averaging 28ppg at .488TS%?

No, I'm one of those guys who takes stat nerds to task for always relying on flawed stats, but ignoring their flaws. BTW, Klay was over .55 TS%, so he was great by your standard. Klay did not say he was inefficient last year, he said he wants to improve his efficiency this year (apparently from "great" under your standard). And you ignore the issue of TOs, which is just as much a blown offensive possession as a missed shot is. Guys like Harden had more than twice as many TOV per game as Klay did last year. Factor those in, adjust for true shooting percentages, and I'm guessing the difference between Harden and Klay was negligible. But you keep citing your flawed stats if they make you feel good.

You need to work on your reading comprehension. I never wrote .550+ = great. Plus, stats are guidelines not absolute.

[cladden]

Would anyone rather have kawhi now?


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

[a8bil]

No stat is perfect. He was inefficient offensively last season, even he himself admitted in an interview. He's great so far in 4 games getting FTs, which is what we expect for his price tag. But if you are doing sub .550 TS%, you can't claim you are a great offensive player. I don't mind if he's .589 instead of .600. I'm not as obsessed as you. Or you are like those Laker fans who think Kobe is great averaging 28ppg at .488TS%?

No, I'm one of those guys who takes stat nerds to task for always relying on flawed stats, but ignoring their flaws. BTW, Klay was over .55 TS%, so he was great by your standard. Klay did not say he was inefficient last year, he said he wants to improve his efficiency this year (apparently from "great" under your standard). And you ignore the issue of TOs, which is just as much a blown offensive possession as a missed shot is. Guys like Harden had more than twice as many TOV per game as Klay did last year. Factor those in, adjust for true shooting percentages, and I'm guessing the difference between Harden and Klay was negligible. But you keep citing your flawed stats if they make you feel good.

You need to work on your reading comprehension. I never wrote .550+ = great. Plus, stats are guidelines not absolute.

LOL..okay, you said if you're shooting under .55 TS%, you can't claim you''re great. So, that doesn't mean that if you're over, you can? Are you saying that you cannot also say you're a great offensive player at a TS% of .56? .57? .58? What then in the inversion point in your view of the world? Come on...stop with the sophistry.

And, I fully agree with your second statement. That's why I wrote the first post. You made it sound like TS% is the be all end all. It aint.

[a8bil]

I'll take a flawed stat with a consistent estimate over a fan's eyeballs any day of the week.. like others, it's pretty silly to differentiate it when the difference is negligible. But TS% isn't supposed to account for turnovers, or offensive efficiency. It accounts for shooting efficiency.

That's why losing synergy sucks - PPP (points per possession) gave, IMO, the best individual indicator of offensive efficiency. Then you cross check that with volume, and have a very good idea of how good of a scorer you have.

I don't think citing the flaws of a stat every time you cite one is a reasonable expectation.

TS% is what it is. that's not the point. People on these boards are constantly saying players at .58-.60 are "efficient", but those at .56 are "inefficient" as if there are absolutes in these numbers. There aren't. I agree that it is not reasonable to expect everyone to cite the flaws in TS% or any other stats. It IS however, reasonable to expect posters to not cite flawed stats as if they are not flawed, or to not pretend that given the inherent flaws in the metrics you can draw fast conclusions between players separated by a few points.

TS% doesn't factor TOVs...that's what I said, but your explanation doesn't make the measurement any less flawed. If Player A drives the lane uncontrollably and turns the ball over, how does that differ from missing the lay up? Same wasted possession.

[FNQ]

How is the measurement flawed again? Because it uses an arbitrary constant?

It does what it's supposed to: measure the efficiency of a player's shooting ability. That remains a part of offense, not the entirety, and if a fan chooses to use it to evaluate an player's entire offense, the fault is on the fan, not the stat. If you used RAPM as the end all be all for player evaluation, ignoring role... is the stat wrong, or are you wrong?

[cladden]

How is the measurement flawed again? Because it uses an arbitrary constant?

It does what it's supposed to: measure the efficiency of a player's shooting ability. That remains a part of offense, not the entirety, and if a fan chooses to use it to evaluate an player's entire offense, the fault is on the fan, not the stat. If you used RAPM as the end all be all for player evaluation, ignoring role... is the stat wrong, or are you wrong?

Seems to me like a lot of people do though. Entirely agree on the rest of your post. There's IMO a lot more between good player assessment than RAPM and role.

[turk3d]

I thought it was a pretty nice bounceback game for Klay against the Spurs (even though it was a bit rough for him in the 1st half). Hopefully his hand's ok. I remember one play where Green (a pretty good defender in his own right) was trying to guard him in the 2nd half and after Klay made the really difficult shot, Green looked bewildered like "How in the heck did he make that? I don't know what else I could have done".

[a8bil]

How is the measurement flawed again? Because it uses an arbitrary constant?

It does what it's supposed to: measure the efficiency of a player's shooting ability. That remains a part of offense, not the entirety, and if a fan chooses to use it to evaluate an player's entire offense, the fault is on the fan, not the stat. If you used RAPM as the end all be all for player evaluation, ignoring role... is the stat wrong, or are you wrong?

TS% uses a factor of .44 to account for FT attempts. It may or may not be true as to any given player. Stats today are advanced enough to make the calculation accurate...why they don't, I don't know.

I agree that TS% is what it is, so to speak. That said, a lot of people want to talk about it like it is gospel for offensive efficiency, when it is not. In terms of the value of TS%, I remain convinced that a stat that ignores the turnovers a player makes while trying to get off his shot fundamentally misses (and therefore skews) that players' shooting efficiency. As I said in a prior post, there is no difference in my mind when a player like Monta drives the hoop and dribbles the all off of his knee vs. clanks it off the rim. Each occurs while trying to score, and each have the same effect on the team--in fact, the TO is arguably worse because there is a chance for an offensive rebound on a missed shot.

[Money23Green]

Would anyone rather have kawhi now?


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

Why would we need Kawhi if we have Iguodala?

[GSWhoopfan]

I have to respect the consistency. Klay has proving you wrong and yet you stick to your guns. Sort of reminds me a religious or environmental debate. Despite the mounting evidence that your position is illogical, you pivot and search for new things to defend on.

Good luck with this season!

He's been the best player so far and it's not even close. He's improving. I don't what him to not succeed, I want him to maximize his potential. I want him to succeed. But I don't see him as anything other than a role player on this team. There's 2 key pieces and 13 role players (15 players on roster right?). He's a good role player and it's not a knock on him to be a role player. Once teams start adjusting to him let's see how he reacts. He's done things I didn't think was capable (dribble) but dribbling through traffic is still an issue. Curry on the other hand makes everyone better. Bogut and Iguodala the same. Klay, Lee, Barnes make themselves better.

Wrong. There are THREE key pieces of this team. Imo, to win a chip all 3 are going to need to 1) be healthy and 2) play lights out on both sides of the ball to beat Houston, Memphis, OKC and the Clips.

Klay is one of the teams STARS whether you want to catagorize him as one or not.

Klay is not a star for one thing. I don't even know if he'd be a star on Philly. Gordan Hayward is looking like a better contract and he's a better player than Klay (he's always been a better player to begin with). Unfortunately the Jazz aren't too good for people to recognize how good Hayward is.

And I take it all back...Bogut has been the best player thus far.

[BScoreez]

I don't think highly of anyone of the team not named Bogut or Curry. They are the keys to everything we do this season. The other guys are products of the them. Iguodala on the bench is a more important piece than Klay. Klay is a real good player but playing alongside Steph does overvalue him. Still a limited player. He's a plus but the shooting guard position sucks. I still don't think he's a game changer. A max player should be able to carry the team on their shoulders...I don't think he's capable of that at all.

I have to respect the consistency. Klay has proving you wrong and yet you stick to your guns. Sort of reminds me a religious or environmental debate. Despite the mounting evidence that your position is illogical, you pivot and search for new things to defend on.

Good luck with this season!

He's been the best player so far and it's not even close. He's improving. I don't what him to not succeed, I want him to maximize his potential. I want him to succeed. But I don't see him as anything other than a role player on this team. There's 2 key pieces and 13 role players (15 players on roster right?). He's a good role player and it's not a knock on him to be a role player. Once teams start adjusting to him let's see how he reacts. He's done things I didn't think was capable (dribble) but dribbling through traffic is still an issue. Curry on the other hand makes everyone better. Bogut and Iguodala the same. Klay, Lee, Barnes make themselves better.

You really don't think teams haven't already been adjusting to him do you? This isn't high school basketball. He has been doing the same thing for the entire preseason and beginning of the regular season. I am pretty sure opposing teams have seen the tape already. It is common for talented players to make the jump to another level around this age. Hayward is putting up much better numbers so far this year in his 5th season. Derozan made a jump in his 5th season. Harden showed consistent improvement and then really showed what he could do when he got more opportunity with the Rockets. Westbrook in his 3rd season. Same for Joe Johnson, Dragic, Parker, Deron, etc.

Also, Klay just standing on the court instantly makes his teammates better because of his scoring ability and the fact that his defender can never help off of him. There's some stat that had him in the top 10 of closest guarded players off the ball last season. He will be top 5 this season. This really opens up the court for others.

While Klay isn't a superstar this improvement around this time of his career is normal. Is Klay's style of play the reason you don't think he can improve like many others and sustain his current level of play?