Memphis Grizzlies

[migya]

Umm no, you just suck with basic stats. I'm not even quoting advanced stats, for all I know I'm completely off base -- I'll look into that.

Warriors are ranked 7th in points per game. Memphis is ranked 20th. In other words, Memphis scores less points than us.. And no, it's not because we play at a faster pace, we're ranked 12th I believe and they're ranked 15th in pace.

Why is it so hard to understand for you? You want to pull out legitimate statistics that disprove me, go ahead, I'll take it happily, but don't pull our BS stats you don't understand and use it to disparage stats in general. It's just dumb and has no place in a real discussion.

It has been for a few years now at least that the Warriors score alot of points due to their pace, end of story. We've got players that like to run and gun and that's what gives points. Memphis plays slower, more controlled basketball and that results in less points scored.

Our pace is much slower this year than past years. What do the other years (that had only Lee, Curry, Dorell, and Beans in common) have anything to do with this year's performance with a current roster? Stick to the current roster and their projected performance.

Yes we're better in the open court but offense is offense and you don't get to ignore points just because they happen to come on fast breaks.

If you want to say Memphis has better half court offense and you prefer a team that can operate in that situation, you would have a valid point.

What I meant was exactly how I said it, the Warriors score alot due to their pace. This team is still a run and gun one. We are still small and built to run, only when Bogut is healthy is there a chance the team will slow done, but there is no denying the way they are built and have been built for years and its fairly small and for speed.

[Jester_]

I already addressed pace -- we're 12th, they're 15th, the difference is marginal enough that it can't cause such a large discrepancy in offense. How about instead of arrogantly sticking to your knee-jerk opinion, you actually bother to read my posts? I'm done discussing with you, you clearly just like talking and don't bother listening.

[migya]

I listened, I just don't agree with that stat, don't know what the basis for it is, how they worked that out. All I know is that Warriors have been a fast paced, run and gun team, for not just this season, but many seasons. They have always been small and built for speed. That equals more scoring, for opponents as well unfortunately. So basically Memphis must have much better defense then, alot better. For the big difference in winning between the two teams, if Warriors are better scoring, then Memphis defense is the difference you'd have to say with that basis.

[Jester_]

In other words, you see what you want to see and refuse to believe the facts. Understood.

[migya]

I don't know where you got your stat from. I listed alot of stats for both teams and made a conclusion from that.

[Jester_]

Okay. So let's use your stats.

Grizzlies are 10th in shots attempted. We're 9th. In other words, we take the same number of shots roughly so you can't blame pace. And yet...

Grizzlies are 14th in shots made, we're 6th. So we take the same amount of shots as them, yet we make more of those shots. So explain to me how the heck that makes them a better offensive team?

Warriors are 8th in FG%. Grizz are 16th. So we shoot better than them.

Warriors are 2nd in 3 pt%, Grizz are 24th. Better beyond the arc than them.

Warriors are 7th in assists, Grizz are 24th, so we have better ball movement than them... hence better offense.

So, using your stats, explain to me again how they're a better offensive team than us? The only thing they trump us in is taking FT's, but that's pretty much the only reason they're not the worst offensive team in the league.

[Chris Porter's Hair]

Warriors are 8th in FG%, Grizz are 16th.

Warriors are 2nd in 3pt%, Grizz are 24th.

Warriors are tied 9th in FT%, Grizz are 16th.

Warriors are tied 23th in TOs, Grizz are 16th.

- Going by that, the Warriors have better rankings and since they have more blocks, yet less steals, just as good defensively. Well the, the Warriors should be winning more than the Grizz and by quite a bit.

Conclusion - These sort of stats mean fukall!

It has been for a few years now at least that the Warriors score alot of points due to their pace, end of story. We've got players that like to run and gun and that's what gives points. Memphis plays slower, more controlled basketball and that results in less points scored.

Even the stats you're quoting go a long way to disproving your own point. You can certainly believe Memphis will win more games next year. But trying to suggest that the current Memphis team is better offensively than the current Warriors team is going to be a tough sell. All the percentage stats above are independent of pace. If anything you'd think a faster pace would lead to lower percentages if you are "rushing". In each of them we're better than Memphis, and in some we're much better. In addition, despite the accelerated pace/number of possessions, we turn the ball over less than Memphis. If the claim is that there is some subtle offensive stat that indicates they are a better offensive team despite scoring fewer points and making fewer of their shots, I'd need to understand what that was.

This is apples and oranges from quoting blocks/steals and equating them to defense. Equating blocks and steals to defense is like the first lesson you learn in misinterpreting stats. Nobody here is doing that.

I bet Memphis wins more games than us next year. But I think it is an interesting discussion. Which team has a better offense isn't a very interesting discussion, in my opinion.

[Jester_]

Fact is, the only reason this team has ever managed to remain competitive for a playoff spot is because of our offense. If Memphis had the kind of offensive fire power we had, they would be a finals contender year in year out. That's why I think we'll be a better team than them next year, if healthy. Bogut turned Milwaukee into a top 5 defensive team. If we can hit that level, and with our offense not losing any of its potency, I have a hard time believing they'll be better than us.

If we can pick up some solid defensive bigs as well, like Udoh when he becomes unrestricted in a couple of years, all the better for us.

[old rem]

Yea, the Grizz are much better than our team fully healthy.

The Grizz are a good example for us to follow, but it won't be easy to be as good as them. Gay is no superstar, but he is allstar caliber and obviously much better than any SF we have here, all of them put together actually.

*ZRand is better than Lee, though defensively they're both bad, ZR is a little better.

*MGasol and Bogut are even, though health is the biggest thing right now for Bogut.

*Conley is better than Curry right now. Curry has everything to prove, while Conley has successfully run that good Grizz team for a few years now.

*I'd rather have TAllen and his defense than Klay's offense. Klay has been a nice surprise, but if we substituted TAllen in his place, the team would be better. The fact they've got Mayo as the backup gives them a big SG edge, where we have Rush, but he plays some SF as well.

*Gay is much better than our SFs

*Their bench does better than ours. They play their roles better, that's why they're winning like they are.


I had compared the Warriors to the Grizz about a week or so ago and we can mold ourselves after them, but that won't lead to being a real contender. The best way is to try to get that superstar, one that is wanting out of his current team so he can be had rather cheap, and that way you can build a team like most championship ones are. We could make a trade for Iguodala or a SF similar to that level, but that just makes us like the Grizz, a very good team that likely will never be champion.

Their bench is in no way better than ours, talent wise. I'm not sure what play their roles better means. How do our players not play their roles better? And Curry and Conley have been roughly even statistically this past year, despite Curry's injured ankle.

Both teams are pretty close, but we have a very obvious depth advantage. And if Memphis is really better than us, how is it that they're near 20th place offensively? It's not like they have a super defensive team, there's 2 maybe 3 good defenders on that roster.

This is just a knee-jerk take based on how well Memphis has played. We're already a far, far superior offensive team to them. Bogut is guaranteed to make us almost as good as them defensively. So how can you say that Memphis is still better? I don't get it.

Yeah...wow...the Griz as our role model/ What's the matter with OKC? The Griz are about maxed out on their development,not to mention payroll.

To say Conley + T Allen are > Curry + Klay? Maybe if Curry's ankle falls off. Whatever...GSW has yet to have both Bogut + Curry...and lately the whole starting lineup ( and Nate seems to have caught the same social disease) Tank Clap?

Anyhow....the GRIZ secret ....is they did odd things and GOT LUCKY. Conley is okay but was so lame they almost made Mayo the PG. Tony A was a scrub in Boston, Zach was a cancer in various places and if the Lakers actually thought Marc Gasol would be a starter...they'd have sent someone else instead.

Yeah...Gay's good but...seriously...for the dough he's paid he ought to be LeBron. I'm fine with Rush + Dorell and maybe about 4 picks in the draft.

How many times have the Griz been Champs? NONE? Well, we WERE champs. Yeah...I think Nixon was President then but...so what? How many Griz are in the Hall Of Fame? What? Big Country isn't? Well....then I don't know.

[xRapHeadx]

They mesh so much better than the Warriors, and Conley is a true PG. Great decision maker. Terrific understanding of pace...No glaring holes.

I also think they have a proven #1 guy in Zach, while we'll need Curry to be the #1 option(which isn't all that bad IMO)

[xRapHeadx]

Warriors are 7th in assists, Grizz are 24th, so we have better ball movement than them... hence better offense.

I'd slightly disagree.

[migya]

Warriors are 8th in FG%, Grizz are 16th.

Warriors are 2nd in 3pt%, Grizz are 24th.

Warriors are tied 9th in FT%, Grizz are 16th.

Warriors are tied 23th in TOs, Grizz are 16th.

- Going by that, the Warriors have better rankings and since they have more blocks, yet less steals, just as good defensively. Well the, the Warriors should be winning more than the Grizz and by quite a bit.

Conclusion - These sort of stats mean fukall!

It has been for a few years now at least that the Warriors score alot of points due to their pace, end of story. We've got players that like to run and gun and that's what gives points. Memphis plays slower, more controlled basketball and that results in less points scored.

Even the stats you're quoting go a long way to disproving your own point. You can certainly believe Memphis will win more games next year. But trying to suggest that the current Memphis team is better offensively than the current Warriors team is going to be a tough sell. All the percentage stats above are independent of pace. If anything you'd think a faster pace would lead to lower percentages if you are "rushing". In each of them we're better than Memphis, and in some we're much better. In addition, despite the accelerated pace/number of possessions, we turn the ball over less than Memphis. If the claim is that there is some subtle offensive stat that indicates they are a better offensive team despite scoring fewer points and making fewer of their shots, I'd need to understand what that was.

This is apples and oranges from quoting blocks/steals and equating them to defense. Equating blocks and steals to defense is like the first lesson you learn in misinterpreting stats. Nobody here is doing that.

I bet Memphis wins more games than us next year. But I think it is an interesting discussion. Which team has a better offense isn't a very interesting discussion, in my opinion.

Well then, if the Warriors are better offensively and steals and blocks aren't meaning much here defensively, then explain to me how Memphis is basically a top 4 team in the West which the Warriors are third last, many wins behind? Answer me that if both teams are so similar.

[EnricoPellini]

Well then, if the Warriors are better offensively and steals and blocks aren't meaning much here defensively, then explain to me how Memphis is basically a top 4 team in the West which the Warriors are third last, many wins behind? Answer me that if both teams are so similar.

The Warriors have the second-worst defense in the league behind Denver. That's a start.

[Jester_]

Well then, if the Warriors are better offensively and steals and blocks aren't meaning much here defensively, then explain to me how Memphis is basically a top 4 team in the West which the Warriors are third last, many wins behind? Answer me that if both teams are so similar.

Defense, obviously. I never said they weren't better defensively, they're far better defensively than we have been. But my point is that with Bogut we should be playing vastly better defense, and combined with our top 10 offense, we're a better team than them on paper, when healthy.

But there's the element of chemistry which Raphead has brought up. Memphis plays very well together. On the other hand it looks like our team's personalities match really well too, so we'll see.

[xRapHeadx]

You can't claim that the Warriors will have a top 10 offense when Bogut is healthy. We'll likely play even slower with not many half court players.