Bogut Watch - now with AdonalFoyle4Prez's poll

[cellomac1212]

I don't know why you continually add all the extra bloat that came from the trade when I have consistently said every post that I am not considering the extra. The trade was not for Barnes and Ezeli, it was for Bogut. Also, remember Barnes was given to us for winning a coin flip. There was a 50% chance we would not of got him. The "ACTUAL" trade has so far returned nothing but a high paid center that can't play. You can try and combine all the circumstances surrounding the trade as part of the trade, but in reality, those circumstances were not part of the trade.

You don't get to criticize management for a trade without considering what they *actually* did a week later with the "bloat" of the trade and how they made the team better. These "circumstances" that put us in tanking position were all considered and it's unfair to ignore them because they inconvenience a hack job on the FO.

For probably the third time now, I AM NOT CRITICIZING THE TRADE! I am however criticizing management for not shutting the F up. You conveniently forget about the trade being "transcendent," you conveniently forget about "not going to play until he is 100%," and now your forgetting about the "7-10 day timetable." None of this would even be considered by fans if the management was simply quiet about the situation or at least didn't make these predictions that have failed.

Also, we originally got Jackson back. It doesn't make sense to talk about getting RJ for trash as if we actually wanted RJ. We traded Jackson mainly for the 30th pick and RJ was the actual filler.

Why would any team in their right mind want Jefferson? We didn't want him, it was the only way we could pass off Jackson. Let's not forget Jackson is the better player of the two and if I'm not mistaken, actually cheaper as well. But it was a decent trade as luckily Festus is doing well.

It's also unfair to say management is horrible and that you could have come up with a better trade without providing a real alternative of your own. What management *actually* did in every move since the trade is a much better measure of their performance than measuring them against a phantom trade that you haven't provided specifics for.

You are putting words in my mouth as I have never said the trade was a bad trade. I have however said that so far the trade is not doing what was promised to us by management and that promise was a "transcendent" center. So far we have only got an injured center who just may not recover in the way most are hoping for.

In the end, we're in a much better position now and there's still a decent chance Bogut will be a productive player for us. I know it's difficult to concede that because we lost a player you were attached to, but it is what it is. It's also difficult to take your analysis seriously when you don't seem to care that the Warriors are actually better and are fixated only on the parts of the trade that concern Monta and that you can leverage into an argument against an owner you dislike.

You are the person bringing Monta into this. I am again just simply saying the management should be quiet and stop resorting to predictions that are continually failing.

Now if you don't think we could of got something better than a player who may not play for nearly two years (if ever again), for Monta, Udoh, and Kwame, I don't know what to say. I didn't think I needed to provide an example for something so obvious.

If it's so obvious, provide an example. Do it.

Any productive player that can actually play basketball if it turns out Bogut is done.

The biggest issue is you are arguing with me about something I am not arguing about. My point of all this (which has been the same for over a year now) is that management needs to stay in the background. Them trying to sell value to fans with their opinions just makes stuff worse when their opinion (or prediction) is wrong. IMO, better off not saying shis than making statements that are flat out wrong...

[Jester_]

They haven't made any statements in a while. I think you're making a big deal out of a non-issue. Management has done a fantastic job so far. They can yap all they want as long as they deliver results. Lacob has arguably been the best exec in the league over the last 7 months.

[FNQ]

Im surprised, and not at all surprised, that people thought the 7-10 day shutdown period meant Bogut would be back at the conclusion. I could have hand picked all those that would misinterpret and then complain about it too...

5-4 without Bogut or Rush

[cellomac1212]

They haven't made any statements in a while. I think you're making a big deal out of a non-issue. Management has done a fantastic job so far. They can yap all they want as long as they deliver results. Lacob has arguably been the best exec in the league over the last 7 months.

I guess you don't mind them consistently lying to you then. Other than that, they have been pretty good about their basketball moves. I simply would rather them keep their opinions and predictions to themselves. I just don't let them slide when their wrong about stuff they didn't even have to say...

[cellomac1212]

Im surprised, and not at all surprised, that people thought the 7-10 day shutdown period meant Bogut would be back at the conclusion. I could have hand picked all those that would misinterpret and then complain about it too...

5-4 without Bogut or Rush

Why say it if it isn't actually true? Why say anything at all that can bring any controversy? Being quiet would make these guys the ultimate management, but all the BS talking needs to end...

[FNQ]

If you cant run without pain, and you rest for 7-10 days, would you just assume good health at the end and begin running? Or would you test it out first and see?

The Ws said Bogut was shut down for 10 days. Some W's fans read this as 'out for 10 days' and then complain that he isnt back yet, they are liars, etc etc.

[Jester_]

They haven't made any statements in a while. I think you're making a big deal out of a non-issue. Management has done a fantastic job so far. They can yap all they want as long as they deliver results. Lacob has arguably been the best exec in the league over the last 7 months.

I guess you don't mind them consistently lying to you then. Other than that, they have been pretty good about their basketball moves. I simply would rather them keep their opinions and predictions to themselves. I just don't let them slide when their wrong about stuff they didn't even have to say...

That's like complaining about Lacob's suit choices. If the only real thing you can harp on is the fact that he talks a lot, obviously he's a damn good exec. A big mouth is the only thing anyone ever has a problem with Mark Cuban about too.

[cellomac1212]

If you cant run without pain, and you rest for 7-10 days, would you just assume good health at the end and begin running? Or would you test it out first and see?

The Ws said Bogut was shut down for 10 days. Some W's fans read this as 'out for 10 days' and then complain that he isnt back yet, they are liars, etc etc.

We obviously all knew 7-10 days was BS. The issue I have is them trying to pass off this BS on me and the rest of the fans. It's not that they are lying, it's that they are setting standards that have a good chance of not being met. On any job I ever had, I would be fired if standards weren't met. I would be shooting myself in the foot if I told someone I could accomplish something and didn't come through with it. I don't understand why they get a pass when the standard they set fails.

IMO, the best way to have handled this is by simply saying "We tried to see if Bogut was ready yet and he wasn't. We are going to shut him down in attempts to get him up to the game speed we need him at and we hope it will be a fast recovery process." Not 7-10 days. Being too specific and optimistic is what gets them in trouble. It's okay to say this stuff behind closed doors, just don't bring it out to the public as you are setting yourself up for the backlash when things go wrong.

[FNQ]

The only mistake they made is assuming YOU knew the difference between shutting down and 'out'. I would say its common sense, but I've been in sports medicine for so long that I dont know whats obvious to someone who's not in the business

Either way you are blaming them for your incorrect interpretation, and I thought what they were doing was clear. Most importantly, it was honest. So there goes your main point.

[cellomac1212]

They haven't made any statements in a while. I think you're making a big deal out of a non-issue. Management has done a fantastic job so far. They can yap all they want as long as they deliver results. Lacob has arguably been the best exec in the league over the last 7 months.

I guess you don't mind them consistently lying to you then. Other than that, they have been pretty good about their basketball moves. I simply would rather them keep their opinions and predictions to themselves. I just don't let them slide when their wrong about stuff they didn't even have to say...

That's like complaining about Lacob's suit choices. If the only real thing you can harp on is the fact that he talks a lot, obviously he's a damn good exec. A big mouth is the only thing anyone ever has a problem with Mark Cuban about too.

Agreed! When Lacob puts out a winning product for 10 straight years and brings a championship, then people may accept the fact he talks too much. In hindsight, Cuban caught a lot of shis for his talking so it should be obvious Lacob will catch the same. But at the end of it, winning cures all. I'm sure if he accomplishes the same feats as Cuban, people will start to accept it. Until then.....

[Mylie10]

Bogut and Bob Myers made it clear that the 7-10 days was just arbitrary...it was a timeline to rest and not a deciding factor in anything.

I got no problem with them saying this, but it's so predictable that media and fans would misinterpret what it meant.

It's not a good thing no matter how it's painted, but they have to say something, and i'm glad Bogut gave it an early try, because he showed us what can be, and also he got a better guage on what to do from here on.

We're a few good shooting nights from really having a strong record.....and we've already won three road games...that's fine with me.

[FNQ]

Thats what they get for being honest and open: called liars.

Smh

Cmon cello. You and others misread it... Thats on you.

[cellomac1212]

The only mistake they made is assuming YOU knew the difference between shutting down and 'out'. I would say its common sense, but I've been in sports medicine for so long that I dont know whats obvious to someone who's not in the business

Either way you are blaming them for your incorrect interpretation, and I thought what they were doing was clear. Most importantly, it was honest. So there goes your main point.

That's BS. So he puts out a statement that can easily be taken out of context and gets a pass for it? Part of being the man at the top is ensuring the things that are said are clear and concise. Most management groups take the time to prepare a written statement that ensures clarity and resolve. Your saying he meant Bogut won't do anything for 7-10 days then he will go through a strenuous rehab process to strengthen the ankle after those 7-10 days before he returns. If this truly is the statement, why not take the time out to say it? It's called "providing false hope." Another term for it would be "stringing the fans on." I just notice that he has been doing it from day 1 of this trade and I don't personally like it. Anyone who thought Bogut would suit up and play at 100% in a week would of been naive. The morale of this story is that some things are better off not being said. Do you honestly think the 7-10 day statement was as clear and concise as it should of been?

[FNQ]

It was clear.

The Warriors said they were shutting down Bogut for 7-10 days to evaluate the progress if his ankle.

They did exactly that. Did their statement say that they expected Bogut back for X game? Did Myers wink again? Maybe they used an emoticon in their online statement. Help me understand why you skimming and misreading is their fault.

Lol give me a break man.

[watch1958]

I heard Myers talk about this when Bogut went out. Nothing he said made me expect that Bogut would be back playing on Day 11.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/sportsnetBayA ... e-same.htm

[cellomac1212]

Thats what they get for being honest and open: called liars.

Smh

Cmon cello. You and others misread it... Thats on you.

Who's calling them liars? I'm not. I said they are stringing the fans along. They have been doing it from the day the trade was made. Honest and open would be saying "he's not ready and we do not know when he will be." What is this 7-10 days BS? Are they trying to say it will take us 7-10 days to make a decision, it will take 7-10 days for him to begin practicing, it will take 7-10 days for him to play in the game again, it will take 7-10 days before he can begin rehabbing, etc, etc, etc... the issue with the 7-10 day statement is that it is a hanging statement. It's an "interpret it how you want to" statement. Considering this thread is 26 pages long and everyone in it has interpreted it differently should be proof of the type of statement this is. I understand why they are doing it, but I personally don't think it is needed as fans will show up to watch the team tank. The fan base is established. The way they are running shis is like they have a problem trying to fill the stadium so they are resorting to providing false hope to get it filled. It just isn't needed and IMO is bad business practice. It doesn't change my opinion of the team in any way, but it does find a way to annoy me.

[FNQ]

It was literally exactly what they it was. They didnt string anyone along so long as they knew how to read. They did exactly what they said and you call it misleading. Unbelievable. I've seen hundreds if arguments on this board... But never once have I seen one like this.

Warriors: "Bogut will be shut down for 7-10 days"
Action: Bogut is shut down for 10 days

Clearly they are manipulating us. Also, the CIA is sending messages to our brains. Tinfoil hat time..

[watch1958]

Listen to the Myers interview, how did Myers string anyone along? He says that Bogut picked the 7-10 days. He says they could say "indefinitely". He says it could be more or less time depending on how Bogut reacted to treatment. He said "we don't know" about as many ways as possible.

[cellomac1212]

Just a few quotes from how the media took it:

Headline:Andrew Bogut out longer than original 7-10 day timetable
Andrew Bogut was supposed to be out 7-10 days starting about a week ago. On Tuesday, the Warriors confirmed he won't be making an upcoming three-game road trip and that his 7-10 day window is going to be extended. Cue the 70s family movie dad saying "Here we go again!" From CSN Bay Area:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-o ... -timetable

Headline:Andrew Bogut to Miss Even More Time
Initially, Andrew Bogut was supposed to be out for 7-10 days, but according to Golden State Warriors head coach Mark Jackson, the big fella will be out longer.

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/20 ... more-time/

Headline:Andrew Bogut to be out at least a little longer than expected
Andrew Bogut wasn’t right, he wasn’t fully healed from his off-season ankle surgery and it showed on the court. So the Warriors decided to give him a week to 10 days to let it heal more.

That wasn’t enough.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... -expected/

This is from the first page of a Google search. I just thought I would look at how the rest of the world interpreted the statement. Even if your interpretation is correct (which it may be), specific timetables only bring confusion. All that was needed was to simply say we will take out some time to allow Bogut to fully heal. If you are going to say 7-10 days, you need to make it ultimately clear that those 7-10 days are for evaluation purposes only. Once those 7-10 days are done, the rehab will begin until 100% satisfaction is reached which could take some time. As management they did not make it ultimately clear (or they only made it ultimately clear for people like you). Once you notice there are many people unlike you (that aren't going to break down what should of been or at least seemed real simple), you will understand the reason I have a problem with how they handled it. OTOH, Bogut during his interview radio 2 or 3 days after the statement was made had no problem saying he won't play until he is ready (which could be out of the 7-10 day range).

[watch1958]

So what Myers actually said on November 8th isn't important? I'm not talking about how I interpreted it. I'm talking about what he said. He said Bogut picked 7-10 days. He said it could be more or less. Papa asked Myers *why not say indefinitely?* Myers says- *we could say indefinitely, but what does that mean?* He didn't say they thought it was going to be 7-10 days, or that even it was their best estimate.

He did make it clear, you just didn't listen to what he actually said. What you seem to be mad about is that people who repeated the story didn't listen to what the GM said.

I'm no big fan of how teams talk about things most of the time. This just isn't one of those times.