GAME THREAD: New evil Empire vs Warriors

Onus · Post #221 » by **Onus** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:40 am

This is why monta didn't work though, curry wasn't moving trying to get a shot. They just isod monta and stuck curry in the corner. If they ran the offense thru curry, to get curry shots. Monta would flourish.

Edit tho the argument could be made that he did considering ...

cellomac1212 · Post #222 » by **cellomac1212** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:04 am

cj03 wrote:
turk3d wrote:I read that article before (it was posted earlier) and he makes some interesting points but one thing I'd like to point out is that our offense is structured that way more out of necessity than by design. As I said, earlier in the season from looking at the game statistics it appears that Curry was sitting out much of the 4th quarter.

One other thing I noticed (and this was earlier in the season) when Curry came in shooting hot in the first half, his scoring usually tailed off in the 2nd (if not he'd probably be scoring 30 a game). One of his problems is he's sort of a hybrid or a combo guard if you will.

I think playing the point some times takes away from his shooting for whatever reason (I think you make a good point Cellomac). It seems now that with Jack who's more than capable of assuming the PG role, Curry is allowed to do what he does best, and that's to shoot the ball and look for screens and open spots (the way he did in this Clipper game) which may be one of the reasons he had one of his better 4th quarters. He's not Nash yet. This probably has something to do with his lack of consistency.

Have you looked at his stats at all? A little less than half of his 3's are unassisted. He takes and makes more unassisted 3's than Nash did in his heyday. (per hoopdata.com) Turk, you have made a lot of generalization without any statistical basis for them. Honestly I feel like you are just going against the crowd just for the sake of going against the crowd. So much for searching for the truth.

Well Nash is a true point guard and his role has always been pass first. If he switched mentality into scorer first like Steph, he might hit more unassisted 3 pointers as well. But you shouldn't have to look at stats to see that Steph is a better shooter catching the ball. This is not to say Steph isn't a great shooter on ball, but that he is even more deadly off ball. He has caught the ball and shot his entire career. He is transitioning into a true point guard role in the NBA. This was the knock on him in the draft. He is a score first combo guard. I give him his respect that he is doing well as a point guard. But, he does still need to get better at assuming point guard responsibilities (which for the record, I think he will). So, speaking for Turk, he isn't just going against the crowd. His points are valid. But the man crush on Curry has existed here for so long, almost nobody sees a flaw in his game or they jump on people who call the flaw out. We are all enamored with his scoring ability, but some of us still question his point guard ability. If people were more willing to admit he still needs work in this regard, I don't think others would try so hard to prove their points and would be more accepting. Steph is a decent distributor and a great scorer. In order to reach his true potential he will need to become a great distributor as well...

Post #223 » by **FNQ** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:21 am

The formula is obvious

same two people: (overbearing critique on Steph's game, followed by "but I'm not a hater")

rest of board: [lol.]

same two people: (steph isn't the mvp like you say, steph isn't flawless like you say)

rest of board: [...]

shazam_guy · Post #224 » by **shazam_guy** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:25 am

Curry:Good/Bad and Monta:Good/Bad became political arguments on the boards long ago. It's actually interesting, because it mirrors real-world politics. On any issue in which people simply do not understand the other side's position, both sides hurl statistics at each other, selectively chosen to prove their points, and can't believe the opposition will not surrender. Man, you should see the stuff I get sent by NRA-boosters, full of what I consider to be weird, faulty, useless facts that prove nothing except that numbers look more serious than letters.

It's actually funny to watch it over the last few years here on this board as arguments become ongoing vendettas. Some people's loathing of Monta Ellis was psychopathic. Other people's hatred of Curry was almost frightening. Which reminds me, I haven't heard "stat padding" about him lately. Guess Steph's outlived that one.

shazam_guy · Post #225 » by **shazam_guy** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:31 am

I didn't read your post until after I'd posted, FNQ. (I didn't want you to think I was responding to anything you'd said.)

Post #226 » by **FNQ** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:37 am

I'll actually just correct what I consider to be selectively chosen #s... Did you see that Monta thread that got bumped not too long ago, his extension thread? I was ruthlessly pimping that guy as a potential PG..

I get frustrated with some posters pimping agendas here because I've learned a ton on RGM, and I'd hate to think some impressionable young player actually buys some of the crap people are pushing for e-cred... if you put lots of ideas out on the internet, some will be wrong, you eat your crow and move on. I pimped Earl Clark and Cole Aldrich for a while for chrissake... I'm not gonna blame the coaches, the systems, and the location of Jupiter's largest moon for when these guys don't pan out.

But its' been years and years, and one poster just hasn't ever been wrong. It's Nellie's fault. AR should play more. Nellie ruined Biedrins. Monta carried Curry. Lee's a terrible player and we should amnesty him or trade him for expirings. Help defense = a double team.

I'm just glad the rest of the board is wise to it... it really derails intelligent discussion, which used to be really prominent here.

Post #227 » by **FNQ** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:39 am

shazam_guy wrote:I didn't read your post until after I'd posted, FNQ. (I didn't want you to think I was responding to anything you'd said.)

I just have perfect timing

I don't disagree with anything you said though, but to steal a page from Nick Naylor, I'm never trying to convince the people I'm actually arguing with (this is the internet, after all).. I'm trying to convince everyone else.

cellomac1212 · Post #228 » by **cellomac1212** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:53 am

FireNellieQuick wrote::lol: The formula is obvious

same two people: (overbearing critique on Steph's game, followed by "but I'm not a hater")

rest of board: [lol.]

same two people: (steph isn't the mvp like you say, steph isn't flawless like you say)

rest of board: [...]

I gave him all the credit he deserves. I did not overstate or understate anything... Please show me where I said anything remotely wrong about Steph... I gave a fair and honest take. If calling him "very good on ball" and "great" off ball is some sort of insult, please tell me where I can by extra large condoms so I can take the entire chorizo without the condom breaking...WTF...

I simply imply he will be MVP worthy when his point guard game reaches maximum capability (which some think is Steve Nash). If anyone thinks he is anywhere near close as a decision maker, your opinions are severely flawed. What he is right now is a very good scorer with decent passing ability and decision making. Is this seriously a wrong take??? Do I even need to follow with "I'm not hating?" Try to give someone a compliment around here and if it ain't good enough its an insult... When did that become normal???

Onus · Post #229 » by **Onus** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:00 am

On a tangent but does anyone think bazemore can be good? He needs to be told not to shoot ever and only drive to the basket. He seems to finish well in traffic, he just can't get there. If he worked on his handles and going at different speeds I think he could be really good. However this would go against my theory of developing handles in the nba.

Post #230 » by **FNQ** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:03 am

cellomac1212 wrote:I gave him all the credit he deserves. I did not overstate or understate anything... Please show me where I said anything remotely wrong about Steph... I gave a fair and honest take. If calling him "very good on ball" and "great" off ball is some sort of insult, please tell me where I can by extra large condoms so I can take the entire chorizo without the condom breaking...WTF...

I simply imply he will be MVP worthy when his point guard game reaches maximum capability (which some think is Steve Nash). If anyone thinks he is anywhere near close as a decision maker, your opinions are severely flawed. What he is right now is a very good scorer with decent passing ability and decision making. Is this seriously a wrong take??? Do I even need to follow with "I'm not hating?" Try to give someone a compliment around here and if it ain't good enough its an insult... When did that become normal???

Not to make you feel unimportant, but I wasn't even considering you here... I always felt you were only unreasonable about Monta, not so much Curry.

I'd still say you are underselling Curry's passing and decision making, but I don't really care enough to argue semantics like that.

Post #231 » by **FNQ** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:06 am

Onus wrote:On a tangent but does anyone think bazemore can be good? He needs to be told not to shoot ever and only drive to the basket. He seems to finish well in traffic, he just can't get there. If he worked on his handles and going at different speeds I think he could be really good. However this would go against my theory of developing handles in the nba.

I don't, not here. Mainly because I HATE having 'upside' 3rd stringers. They will always be trying to impress for their next contract and showing what they can do over actually contributing. Give me an RJ over a Bazemore any day.

Post #232 » by **FNQ** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:07 am

cellomac1212 wrote:Yeah, I agree. But the number of moral victories were countless when Monta was at the helm...

+1, I always enjoyed how well we dominated the moral playoffs

Onus · Post #233 » by **Onus** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:09 am

FireNellieQuick wrote:
Onus wrote:On a tangent but does anyone think bazemore can be good? He needs to be told not to shoot ever and only drive to the basket. He seems to finish well in traffic, he just can't get there. If he worked on his handles and going at different speeds I think he could be really good. However this would go against my theory of developing handles in the nba.

I don't, not here. Mainly because I HATE having 'upside' 3rd stringers. They will always be trying to impress for their next contract and showing what they can do over actually contributing. Give me an RJ over a Bazemore any day.

I'm not sure if ur trying to be facetious.

Post #234 » by **FNQ** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:16 am

Onus wrote:I'm not sure if ur trying to be facetious.

Not even a little bit.

Kids in small roles will always be looking to increase their roles, increase their pay.
Vets in small roles know their time has come and gone, and are looking to improve the teams more.

It doesn't always work out like that, but I play poker, and I'll always bet on the better odds. Bazemore is going to keep shooting in NBA games because he needs to, to take care of himself long term. If we're looking for quality minutes in important games, he's not where I'm going to look

Onus · Post #235 » by **Onus** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:20 am

FireNellieQuick wrote:
Onus wrote:I'm not sure if ur trying to be facetious.

Not even a little bit.

Kids in small roles will always be looking to increase their roles, increase their pay.
Vets in small roles know their time has come and gone, and are looking to improve the teams more.

It doesn't always work out like that, but I play poker, and I'll always bet on the better odds. Bazemore is going to keep shooting in NBA games because he needs to, to take care of himself long term. If we're looking for quality minutes in important games, he's not where I'm going to look

Idk if this team is about that. It's not like Harrison or green are just hoisting every time. They very much play within their roles. The role would be a bit bigger because he'd be handling the ball but the kid is explosive and lightning quick when he kicks it into gear

Post #236 » by **FNQ** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:21 am

Harrison and Green both have guaranteed money though

At the end of the day, team or no team, people are going to look out for themselves in Bazemore's situation. Wouldn't you?

Onus · Post #237 » by **Onus** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:24 am

Yea but his looking out for himself would hopefully be him getting into the lane, which this team lacks

Post #238 » by **FNQ** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:33 am

We all know he can do that though... he's a minimum player at best doing that. But if he showed even the promise of a decent jumper? He could get a rotational role somewhere.

I don't blame him at all, its what I would do too. I just prefer people on their downside, because they know what they are playing for, and can't risk going rogue

Onus · Post #239 » by **Onus** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:37 am

Yea his jumper is awful but he could be iman shumpert, Avery Bradley, tony Allen. They don't really go rogue. Shumpert does occasionally but what can u expect playing w melo and jr

Mylie10 · Post #240 » by **Mylie10** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:38 am

I've seen Bazemore come into garbage time and pass the ball for good looks....I've also watched him do exactly what Jackson wants him too in some short meaningful stints....I watched him get big run in D league games and put up big time numbers, which is what you'd like from a guy playing d league minutes.

I'm not sure I agree with you guys at all....I'm betting that the Dubs keep him around and have so far been more willing to keep him around than Tyler...who's days are numbered.

Bazemore hangs his hat on defense, but has a better ball handle than Klay or Barnes or even Jenkins....he's got a jump shot that no one knew he had and with that handle he's also a good passer....not to sure if he rebounds, but behind Barnes he's probably the teams best athlete.

I'm calling a spree well like gAme from him in a couple years and a real find....I wouldn't just sweep him under the rug and neither are the Warriors.