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I don't know what went wrong

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I don't know what went wrong 

Post#1 » by Vanilla Man » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:36 am

..........
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Re: I don't know what went wrong, but the season was a fail 

Post#2 » by oaktownwarriors87 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:03 am

Management should always be looking to improve the team. I don't care if they fire Jackson or trade Curry, as long as it makes the team better.
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Re: I don't know what went wrong, but the season was a fail 

Post#3 » by AdonalFoyle4Prez » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:36 am

A very undermanned Denver team SHOULD NOT beat us on our home floor, PERIOD.

I don't think we should pin this on Coach Jackarse as much, but the fallout are in the players' hands. They were up at least by 15 or so, and collapsed for whatever reason (lack of effort/concentration?). Mozgov tore it up and Randy Foye (of all the games that he's been inconsistent) was pretty consistent tonight even when Iggy and Thompson were on him.

But, then again, our crap of a 2nd unit stank up towards the end of 2nd quarter and Jackarse didn't pull them out to insert their starters. And Denver's momentum just didn't shift in our favor.

What's worse was that Joe Lacob was at the game, and probably is still kicking himself for using that amnesty clause on Charlie Bell, lol..
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Re: I don't know what went wrong, but the season was a fail 

Post#4 » by migya » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:40 am

The thing with MJackson is that the team has done better than they have in twenty years. He brought defense for the first time to this franchise that can be remembered and so replacing him effectively won't be easy. Has to be a coach that will keep the defense and play to the strengths of shooting.
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Re: I don't know what went wrong, but the season was a fail 

Post#5 » by Sleepy51 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:00 am

AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:What's worse was that Joe Lacob was at the game, and probably is still kicking himself for using that amnesty clause on Charlie Bell, lol..


This is an important factor in the conversation that gets ignore.

This team was believed by experts and statisticians to be about a 50 win team at the outset. They are at this point on pace to be about a 50 win team, barring an epic collapse.

What has LACOB done over the course of this season to elevate the team, other than participating in undermining his coach? Where is the meaningful lux-tax addition using the TEs? Where did the owner put skin in the game to make the team more than it was on paper? Other than talking a lot about an arena that apparently isn't going to get built, Lacob did not put any new money into the team beyond what we started with on day 1. You can shout and waive your arms and tell people their jobs are on the line all you want, but if you have a 50 win product, you are going to get 50 wins at the end of the day.
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Re: I don't know what went wrong, but the season was a fail 

Post#6 » by Jester_ » Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:32 am

Jackson gets the bulk of the blame. Lacob and Myers get a fair chunk as well. What, if anything, they do in the next 5-6 months will be telling.
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Re: I don't know what went wrong, but the season was a fail 

Post#7 » by Sleepy51 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:44 am

No blame for the players? Really? Celebrating "wins" in the 2nd quarter isn't on the players even a wee little bit?
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Re: I don't know what went wrong, but the season was a fail 

Post#8 » by Jester_ » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:06 pm

Sleepy51 wrote:No blame for the players? Really? Celebrating "wins" in the 2nd quarter isn't on the players even a wee little bit?


Who am I going to blame? I can blame Barnes all I want, but it's not his fault the coach insists on throwing him out there 25 mpg. Bogut's been a soggy vagina, but otherwise our players have played to their talent, which is all you can expect. Not their fault their coach doesn't know how to use them.
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Re: I don't know what went wrong, but the season was a fail 

Post#9 » by AdonalFoyle4Prez » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:21 pm

I'm pretty neutral about Mark Jackson because, despite his inability to make timely substitutions (or questionable substitutions) that really infuriates all of us, we're still 18 games above .500 games (currently 48-30) and lucky enough to be in the playoff picture (moreso than what our previous coaches have done).

We just need to bring in a seasoned/top-notch Xs and Os guy who doesn't mind riding behind Mark Jackson but still has plays an integral role formulating plays (and hope there won't be a fallout between he and Jackson.). With that, you get players to play off inspiration/motivation through Jackson's voice and have set plays created by our top assistant coach. That spells success, plain and simple.
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Re: I don't know what went wrong, but the season was a fail 

Post#10 » by cj03 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:34 pm

AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:I'm pretty neutral about Mark Jackson because, despite his inability to make timely substitutions (or questionable substitutions) that really infuriates all of us, we're still 18 games above .500 games (currently 48-30) and lucky enough to be in the playoff picture (moreso than what our previous coaches have done).

We just need to bring in a seasoned/top-notch Xs and Os guy who doesn't mind riding behind Mark Jackson but still has plays an integral role formulating plays (and hope there won't be a fallout between he and Jackson.). With that, you get players to play off inspiration/motivation through Jackson's voice and have set plays created by our top assistant coach. That spells success, plain and simple.


All indications point to Jax not really being ok with someone who undermines his authority. Bringing in an offensive guy to run a system would probably rub Jax the wrong way. The only way it happens is if Lacob says unless you get an offensive system/assistant you're out. And Jax would then take jabs at ownership during his interviews. Fun stuff.
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Re: I don't know what went wrong, but the season was a fail 

Post#11 » by Sleepy51 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:35 pm

Jester_ wrote:
Sleepy51 wrote:No blame for the players? Really? Celebrating "wins" in the 2nd quarter isn't on the players even a wee little bit?


Who am I going to blame? I can blame Barnes all I want, but it's not his fault the coach insists on throwing him out there 25 mpg. Bogut's been a soggy vagina, but otherwise our players have played to their talent, which is all you can expect. Not their fault their coach doesn't know how to use them.


popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?datee=20140410&game=DENGSW

No hockey subs. Never more than two players entering or exiting at the same time. The substitutions have been like this since the AS break.

Barnes ISO's are really the only huge gaffe that has been on Jackson all year long. That is a fair criticism. Other than Barens MJ has used our players (as far as the offensive system we run when Barens isn't on the floor and the defensive system that is ranked #1 in the west) quite well.

The Barnes situation has been a failure on all fronts by all parties involved. Barens, Jackson, West, Lacob, Meyers, Barnes mama, etc. But if you don't ask MJ to sculpt Michaelangel's david out of wet poop, you have much less of a chance of ending up with a pile of wet poop on a pedestal.
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Re: I don't know what went wrong, but the season was a fail 

Post#12 » by Sleepy51 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:35 pm

Jester_ wrote:
Sleepy51 wrote:No blame for the players? Really? Celebrating "wins" in the 2nd quarter isn't on the players even a wee little bit?


Who am I going to blame? I can blame Barnes all I want, but it's not his fault the coach insists on throwing him out there 25 mpg. Bogut's been a soggy vagina, but otherwise our players have played to their talent, which is all you can expect. Not their fault their coach doesn't know how to use them.


http://www.popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?datee=20140410&game=DENGSW

The only think like a hockey shift change in that game flow was at the mid point in the 2nd when MJ got the suckass scrubs off the floor in a hurry to get the starters back in. But there are never more than 2 starters walking off of the court at the same time unless it's halftime or the end of the game. The substitutions have been like this since the AS break.

Barnes ISO's are really the only huge gaffe that has been on Jackson all year long. That is a fair criticism. Other than Barens MJ has used our players (as far as the offensive system we run when Barens isn't on the floor and the defensive system that is ranked #1 in the west) quite well.

The Barnes situation has been a failure on all fronts by all parties involved. Barens, Jackson, West, Lacob, Meyers, Barnes mama, etc. But if you don't ask MJ to sculpt Michaelangel's david out of wet poop, you have much less of a chance of ending up with a pile of wet poop on a pedestal.
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Re: I don't know what went wrong, but the season was a fail 

Post#13 » by bakesale » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:46 pm

Sleepy51 wrote:
Jester_ wrote:
Sleepy51 wrote:No blame for the players? Really? Celebrating "wins" in the 2nd quarter isn't on the players even a wee little bit?


Who am I going to blame? I can blame Barnes all I want, but it's not his fault the coach insists on throwing him out there 25 mpg. Bogut's been a soggy vagina, but otherwise our players have played to their talent, which is all you can expect. Not their fault their coach doesn't know how to use them.


popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?datee=20140410&game=DENGSW

No hockey subs. Never more than two players entering or exiting at the same time. The substitutions have been like this since the AS break.

Barnes ISO's are really the only huge gaffe that has been on Jackson all year long. That is a fair criticism. Other than Barens MJ has used our players (as far as the offensive system we run when Barens isn't on the floor and the defensive system that is ranked #1 in the west) quite well.

The Barnes situation has been a failure on all fronts by all parties involved. Barens, Jackson, West, Lacob, Meyers, Barnes mama, etc. But if you don't ask MJ to sculpt Michaelangel's david out of wet poop, you have much less of a chance of ending up with a pile of wet poop on a pedestal.


Barnes really??? He has like 1 or 2 isos a game. It hardly has an effect on the game. It's the consistency of our volume shooters that has a greater effect. For eg if klay shoots 5 of 18 it has a more dramatic effect on the result than Barnes getting 2 of 7
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Re: I don't know what went wrong, but the season was a fail 

Post#14 » by Mylie10 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:48 pm

Sleepy51 wrote:No blame for the players? Really? Celebrating "wins" in the 2nd quarter isn't on the players even a wee little bit?



I'm with you Sleepy......I had them at 55 wins prior to the season. So to me they are slightly underperforming. We can count to those winnable games that we let slip away. I heard Jackson in the first half in a huddle calling the players out...not individually or with malice, but putting it on them to go harder.

To me, we've lost some of these winnable games because of players getting outplayed, or missing shots. go back and watch last night at how many times we came down and took really quick shots. If we make those, then great, if we miss them, then how is that on Jackson. I'm sure Curry has the green light at all times, but Curry missed a bunch of shots we expect to go down.

And I didn't see anyone relly samsh Mozgov...they played pitter patter with him all night. They didn't respect him and assumed he'd start to miss. Well Timothy dragged his balls all over our front courts face....Jackson wasn't in there.

Yes there have been some tactical errors from Jackson along the way, but every coach outcoaches himself from time to time...Even pop made a big mistake in the Finals by not having Duncan on the floor at the end when Bosh got that offensive rebound.

Everybody's hero with Lee out, Draymond, even played like crap last night. He made a ton of mistakes.

I also agree that would should have added a Caron Butler, or Danny Granger, or a pre-deadline deal. Something.
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Re: I don't know what went wrong, but the season was a fail 

Post#15 » by AdonalFoyle4Prez » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:51 pm

cj03 wrote:
AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:I'm pretty neutral about Mark Jackson because, despite his inability to make timely substitutions (or questionable substitutions) that really infuriates all of us, we're still 18 games above .500 games (currently 48-30) and lucky enough to be in the playoff picture (moreso than what our previous coaches have done).

We just need to bring in a seasoned/top-notch Xs and Os guy who doesn't mind riding behind Mark Jackson but still has plays an integral role formulating plays (and hope there won't be a fallout between he and Jackson.). With that, you get players to play off inspiration/motivation through Jackson's voice and have set plays created by our top assistant coach. That spells success, plain and simple.


All indications point to Jax not really being ok with someone who undermines his authority. Bringing in an offensive guy to run a system would probably rub Jax the wrong way. The only way it happens is if Lacob says unless you get an offensive system/assistant you're out. And Jax would then take jabs at ownership during his interviews. Fun stuff.


I agree with that. And it's surprising to hear some of our players backing Jackson after all that (which, I still see as important, though).

That's why I stress getting a seasoned coach/coaching assistant with a reputation/track record being on successful teams and contributed to their success. So, perhaps Jackson will have more respect for him than he did with Scalabrine (Which I think is some of the reasons why I think he was demoted because of his lack of coaching experience--Oh, the irony.). And, if there is a problem between Jackson and his top-assistant coach, Jackson is obviously the issue.
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Re: I don't know what went wrong, but the season was a fail 

Post#16 » by Mylie10 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:52 pm

bakesale wrote:
Sleepy51 wrote:
Jester_ wrote:
Who am I going to blame? I can blame Barnes all I want, but it's not his fault the coach insists on throwing him out there 25 mpg. Bogut's been a soggy vagina, but otherwise our players have played to their talent, which is all you can expect. Not their fault their coach doesn't know how to use them.


popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?datee=20140410&game=DENGSW

No hockey subs. Never more than two players entering or exiting at the same time. The substitutions have been like this since the AS break.

Barnes ISO's are really the only huge gaffe that has been on Jackson all year long. That is a fair criticism. Other than Barens MJ has used our players (as far as the offensive system we run when Barens isn't on the floor and the defensive system that is ranked #1 in the west) quite well.

The Barnes situation has been a failure on all fronts by all parties involved. Barens, Jackson, West, Lacob, Meyers, Barnes mama, etc. But if you don't ask MJ to sculpt Michaelangel's david out of wet poop, you have much less of a chance of ending up with a pile of wet poop on a pedestal.


Barnes really??? He has like 1 or 2 isos a game. It hardly has an effect on the game. It's the consistency of our volume shooters that has a greater effect. For eg if klay shoots 5 of 18 it has a more dramatic effect on the result than Barnes getting 2 of 7


Great point Bakesale, but Sleepy's point is well taken also. Barnes play for most of the year hasn't helped and the fact that he maintains a minute load around 30 is frustrating. I do understand why....but it has hurt the team.

Last night would have been a good game to have Lee. As much as you guys slam Lee, there are times for every basketball team where you need an option different from the one you have on the floor. When options are taken away, it weakens your team.
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Re: I don't know what went wrong, but the season was a fail 

Post#17 » by Sleepy51 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:53 pm

bakesale wrote:Barnes really??? He has like 1 or 2 isos a game. It hardly has an effect on the game. It's the consistency of our volume shooters that has a greater effect. For eg if klay shoots 5 of 18 it has a more dramatic effect on the result than Barnes getting 2 of 7


Klay is #8 in the league in 3pt %. Shooters are going to have ups and downs, but Klay is an OUTSTANDING shooter, not a "volume shooter." Klay's hotand cold runs are not a problem if Barnes could make layups.
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Re: I don't know what went wrong, but the season was a fail 

Post#18 » by Mylie10 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:09 pm

Its still a good point though, because when Klay or Steph are having off shooting nights and God forbid on the same night, it does hurt.

Barnes crappy play all year is a big reason our bench sucked for so long, but off shooting nights by your higher volume shooters makes it tough. Another reason why lee adds value to our squad. He is pretty consistent with his shooting/ scoring.....it helps to mask off shooting nights by the others. When you take that away, then it factors in.
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Re: I don't know what went wrong, but the season was a fail 

Post#19 » by Dasein » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:34 pm

We can't be happy with just a 6th seed. People wanna praise Jackson for turning this team around but in reality he just got hired at the perfect time. We are one of the most talented teams in the league and just as talented as San Antonio, but the difference between us and San Antonio is that they have a offensive system. We should have one of the top offenses in the league statistically but we don't, and that is unacceptable when we have Steph, Klay, and Lee in our starting line up. All of you people defending Jackson will realize you were wrong for attributing our success to Jackson's preaching because I think Lacob and Myers will get a coach that has actually has an offensive system and this team will be a top 4 seed next year.
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Re: I don't know what went wrong, but the season was a fail 

Post#20 » by ChuckDurn » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:40 pm

We've actually been relatively healthy. 4 of 5 starters have missed some time, but all in all, we haven't been hit by injuries as much as many teams have (e.g. Denver).

We were projected for about 50 wins this year.... Going to end up about there. So why is it a failure? Heightened expectations, potentially unrealistic expectations.

This said, we have clearly underachieved. My wife loves sports (fortunately). Last night, we watched a little bit of the Spurs game, and I told her to watch the Spurs on offense a few times - everybody moves, screens, the ball moves, they end up with open shots in good places on most possessions. Then when we watched the Warriors, I told her to watch us on offense for a few possessions. Her observation - "nobody moves, it's just horrible. They run one screen, and then it's up to that guy (Curry) to get his shot or find somebody, but nobody's moving to get open." She saw Iguodala just standing in the right corner on 3 possessions, not moving or getting involved, and asked why he was just doing that. The reason? I told her it's because he's not asked to do anything else. The same Iguodala who in both Philadelphia and Denver was a major facilitator in the offense.

Then the epic timeout in the 4th quarter.... "We have 6 minutes of our type of basketball to play. I believe in you. (blah, blah, blah.... With, from what we can tell, not a word of guidance on how to make any offensive or defensive adjustments.)" My wife's conclusion - he should be fired immediately.

So in summary - we have actually achieved what was expected. But a lack of competent offensive coaching has held us back from achieving what we could have, and should have, done.
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