I don't get no respect! - The David Lee Thread

[Mylie10]

It's not possible to stretch waive Lee. He was signed prior to this new cba.

[statsman]

It's not possible to stretch waive Lee. He was signed prior to this new cba.

Correct. He'll be one of four contracts I know of that can't be stretch waived this next season (Lee, Joe Johnson, Durant, Noah). There might be a few more. It will be the last season under this CBA where at least one player can't be stretch waived.

[East Bay Sports]

I always assumed we could easily find a taker for Lee, but seeing him play lately I'm not so sure. Hopefully Meyers can convince people Lee's struggles are mental from dealing with his new role, but that seems like a stretch at this point. I think we are stuck with this guy unless we give him the Beans/RJ treatment and attach multiple firsts to him just to dump him.

[ChuckS]

I certainly will not call everyone who seems hysterical about Lee clueless. To each his own. If GS had so many two time all stars in the last ten years, and so many bigs who gave the team more than the eighteen and ten in that span of time, such frustration might seem more logical.

I doubt it, but personally I might better understand such bitter animus if this were the Neil Johnson, Nate Thurmond, or Wilt, era. Hell, it might even make sense to someone else during the times of Chris Webber, Joe Barry Carroll, or Robert Parish.

I believe we have an exceptional team because all of our players are some degree of good. But our current good bigs are Mo Speights, Harrison Barnes, McAdoo, Kuzmic, and Ezeli, all of whom can be analyzed at least as critically as Lee. Even our great defenders, Bogut and Green are poor offensive players. Dray has a poor shooting percentage for a big, and is a modest scorer, while Andrew shoots a very high percentage but with very few points. While I like what each bring, I do not understand how others can consider Lee does not belong.

[East Bay Sports]

I certainly will not call everyone who seems hysterical about Lee clueless. To each his own. If GS had so many two time all stars in the last ten years, and so many bigs who gave the team more than the eighteen and ten in that span of time, such frustration might seem more logical.

I doubt it, but personally I might better understand such bitter animus if this were the Neil Johnson, Nate Thurmond, or Wilt, era. Hell, it might even make sense to someone else during the times of Chris Webber, Joe Barry Carroll, or Robert Parish.

I believe we have an exceptional team because all of our players are some degree of good. But our current good bigs are Mo Speights, Harrison Barnes, McAdoo, Kuzmic, and Ezeli, all of whom can be analyzed at least as critically as Lee. Even our great defenders, Bogut and Green are poor offensive players. Dray has a poor shooting percentage for a big, and is a modest scorer, while Andrew shoots a very high percentage but with very few points. While I like what each bring, I do not understand how others can consider Lee does not belong.

Good, good. Now bottle these feelings for Lee and figure out how to make 29 other GMs feel the same way.

[turk3d]

Giving up on these 2 finally huh

I've always been waiting for improvement on the team....no matter who supplanted who. Now that the Lee contract will be at a position to move and he doesn't fit WHAT WE ARE NOW DOING then of course I'm all for moving him....lol at giving up on him you Dumas.

As for Barnes he can stay and he is helping. He stripes the corner three and his defense is much better than many will admit. I don't hate him or love him...I just think he has regained value and some team will be willing to trade for him before we have to pay for him. Good business.

Get over yourself sometimes.

Barnes' defense is decent, it's nothing to write home about. He's not an impactful defender at all.

I'm just yanking your chain a bit, don't get your panties in a bunch. After all the crap I took over the years about these 2, I'm definitely going to be tooting my horn a bit.

One thing about he desrves credit for (which I think goes unnotice) in spite of his incionsisten offense, is he's a very good help defender, one of the reasons he fits in well with the starters. This is very important (on our rotational defense, which is tops or close to it the league). Versatility is a key, in additionl to being able to (and willing to) switch when necessary and do a decent job of defending no matter where the switch takes you. Dude's still just 22, should be in his final year of college.

[Left*My*Heart]

I don't think stretching Lee is going to save them enough if possible. I think the Warriors have some options in moving him.

[Warriorfan]

I think Lee has fallen behind Ezeli on the depth chart. Last few games he has become less focused on d.
I find it hard that a person with a high Basketball IQ on offense has a low one on defense.

[Money_]

We all know what Lee is, and what to expect. Fact, that injury at the beginning of the season really messed up his usage/flow on this team. No one expected Green to find his offensive game to the degree he did, and no one expected Mo to have this kind of year. Most likely, Lee was slated for the starting PF position before that injury. Now he's stuck in a position of "go out and find your game" in the midst of what they are already running. Lee gets his numbers when he's the 3rd option and runs the pick and roll with Steph, but they're not running that with him as much. So he has to find himself within the flow of this motion offense. At times he looks lost, and defensively, sigh... He's just not that guy. Add to that, he's the highest paid player on the team, our third string PF. It's easy to bag on him. I bet it's a VERY tough position for him to be in. Lee is a competitor though. I anticipate getting some meaningful minutes from him, here and there during the playoffs. If we're going to go deep in the playoffs, we'll need everyone to be in top form including DLee.

[Bball0000]

Hell, when I started this thread more Warriors fans should've spoke up. It was me vs damn near everybody on the first few pages. Read back over it...people were suggesting Iguodala was the one that needed to go, that Lee was better than Speights, that Ezeli was more of a waste of a roster spot than Lee...let's see what else...oh yeah, people actually calling Lee a good defender, and pointing to tiny sample size stats to prove their point, and accusing me of using the "eye test". The whole time im thinking, what in the actual ****? Am I the only one here who sees what Lee is?

If there weren't so many cluelessly ardent Lee supporters in the fanbase, he probably would've been gone a while ago. My he argument that it would disrupt the team " chemistry" is the worst argument of all considering what a negative impact he makes when he plays. He's a scrub, and one of the worst defenders I've ever seen. I will celebrate the day I never have to see him in a Warriors jersey again, it's way past due.

Is that all you care about is "I told you so" sentiments? No one was saying David Lee was all-NBA defense. I wonder if you were still raggin on him when he was an all star and all-nba? The fact is, he has been one of the better PF's in the league. He's never been elite. He's been good / solid. He's been a guy who could get you 18 & 10, 50%+ fg, a good team player, and a good compliment to Steph and Klay because of his passing. He's never been a rim protector. Yet Kerr plays him at the 5. (let's see how he would do with Ezeli and Bogut). He's never played off the bench until this season. He's gone from being a starter for years, to getting spotty minutes and DNP while rarely playing with the starting unit. You'd be naive to think there's no impact from that or doesn't take adjustment. Just ask Harrison Barnes how having different roles and playing with different teammates can affect your game. It's a team game. You want the best complimentary players to be together. I'd argue that Lee in the starting lineup, the Warriors would still be very good. I'm not a Lee-apologist, I'm just a realist. I realize he hasn't played up to par, but I'm also not going to pretend that he's been put in a good position to succeed. Or that his dramatically changed and inconsistent minutes throughout the year hasn't had some effect on his game. He's always needed to play alongside a rim protector, and that's nothing new.

And more people wanted to trade Lee than you know of. The problem was you guys always had no realistic trades in mind that would improve the team. It was always dump Lee for some scrubs that would make the team worse. At the end of the day, whatever "deficiency" Lee has been on the team, the team as a whole continues to win and play at a high level. That's all that matters.

[cj03]

One thing about he desrves credit for (which I think goes unnotice) in spite of his incionsisten offense, is he's a very good help defender, one of the reasons he fits in well with the starters. This is very important (on our rotational defense, which is tops or close to it the league). Versatility is a key, in additionl to being able to (and willing to) switch when necessary and do a decent job of defending no matter where the switch takes you. Dude's still just 22, should be in his final year of college.

I'm going to respectfully disagree. Barnes really doesn't do much as a help defender. His calling card is one-on-one D where he's focused on the guy with the ball, and he can use his very nice wingspan and decent feet to stymie a drive. He doesn't miss too many rotations, but he isn't Iguodala in terms of closing out on shooters. He doesn't have the standing reach to deter many shot attempts at the rim. I'd say a pretty neutral defender. He doesn't make a ton of mistakes, but he also doesn't stand out in terms of impact. He has room to grow, but he wasn't born with great defensive instincts like Dray was.

[marthafokker]

I think Lee has fallen behind Ezeli on the depth chart. Last few games he has become less focused on d.
I find it hard that a person with a high Basketball IQ on offense has a low one on defense.

Anyone noticed that JMM got DLee's minutes in the 2nd half?

[turk3d]

One thing about he desrves credit for (which I think goes unnotice) in spite of his incionsisten offense, is he's a very good help defender, one of the reasons he fits in well with the starters. This is very important (on our rotational defense, which is tops or close to it the league). Versatility is a key, in additionl to being able to (and willing to) switch when necessary and do a decent job of defending no matter where the switch takes you. Dude's still just 22, should be in his final year of college.

I'm going to respectfully disagree. Barnes really doesn't do much as a help defender. His calling card is one-on-one D where he's focused on the guy with the ball, and he can use his very nice wingspan and decent feet to stymie a drive. He doesn't miss too many rotations, but he isn't Iguodala in terms of closing out on shooters. He doesn't have the standing reach to deter many shot attempts at the rim. I'd say a pretty neutral defender. He doesn't make a ton of mistakes, but he also doesn't stand out in terms of impact. He has room to grow, but he wasn't born with great defensive instincts like Dray was.

No one's saying he's Igguodala, but he has the one advantage over Iggy in his height (@ 6'6 even with his jumping ability he has difficult against some of your taller 3s). And Barnes is a pretty good help defender (remember that play he made on Paul in the playoffs which essentially won that game for us as an example.

I realize that Barnes hasn't played too well recently (especially offensively) and Iggy has been exceptional as of late. even to the point that I could see Kerr switching him and Barnes and staring Iggy although Kerr might not to do that for fear of weakening the bench. 53-13 is pretty good with Barnes in the starting lineup and Iggy coming off the bench but, true Iggy's game has been stellar as of late.

[cj03]

No one's saying he's Igguodala, but he has the one advantage over Iggy in his height (@ 6'6 even with his jumping ability he has difficult against some of your taller 3s). And Barnes is a pretty good help defender (remember that play he made on Paul in the playoffs which essentially won that game for us as an example.

I realize that Barnes hasn't played too well recently (especially offensively) and Iggy has been exceptional as of late. even to the point that I could see Kerr switching him and Barnes and staring Iggy although Kerr might not to do that for fear of weakening the bench. 53-13 is pretty good with Barnes in the starting lineup and Iggy coming off the bench but, true Iggy's game has been stellar as of late.

Barnes' standing reach is pathetic. It's 8'5.5". Iggy's is 8'9.5" I could care less about a long neck. Their wingspans are the same. Barnes may be taller, but he's got such a long neck that it negates any functional length.

[marthafokker]

It's not if you start. It's if you close the game. Iggy has been the closer in close games.

I am happy with what has been working. But I sure hope GSW management sells his "potential" and get something in return before he cashes in on a bad team.

[turk3d]

No one's saying he's Igguodala, but he has the one advantage over Iggy in his height (@ 6'6 even with his jumping ability he has difficult against some of your taller 3s). And Barnes is a pretty good help defender (remember that play he made on Paul in the playoffs which essentially won that game for us as an example.

I realize that Barnes hasn't played too well recently (especially offensively) and Iggy has been exceptional as of late. even to the point that I could see Kerr switching him and Barnes and staring Iggy although Kerr might not to do that for fear of weakening the bench. 53-13 is pretty good with Barnes in the starting lineup and Iggy coming off the bench but, true Iggy's game has been stellar as of late.

Barnes' standing reach is pathetic. It's 8'5.5". Iggy's is 8'9.5" I could care less about a long neck. Their wingspans are the same. Barnes may be taller, but he's got such a long neck that it negates any functional length.

You may be right according to the numbers but I'm pretty sure (just watching) that Barnes has and advantage against bigger guys. 6'6 is pretty small for the SF position. He does make up for it with his jumping ability to some degree. Not really sure who jumps higher at this point in Iggy's career although lately he does seem to have a bit more spring in his legs (perhaps due to Kerr bring him off the bench and limiting his minutes in the first half).

[cj03]

Barnes' standing reach is pathetic. It's 8'5.5". Iggy's is 8'9.5" I could care less about a long neck. Their wingspans are the same. Barnes may be taller, but he's got such a long neck that it negates any functional length.

You may be right according to the numbers but I'm pretty sure (just watching) that Barnes has and advantage against bigger guys. 6'6 is pretty small for the SF position. He does make up for it with his jumping ability to some degree. Not really sure who jumps higher at this point in Iggy's career although lately he does seem to have a bit more spring in his legs (perhaps due to Kerr bring him off the bench and limiting his minutes in the first half).

Why does height matter? Standing reach is the only thing that matters frankly. Barnes may by 6'8", but if his shoulders are broad or his neck is long (in this case it's both), it hurts his ability to contest shots vertically. Because his wingspan is long, it helps his ability to contain guys horizontally. Iggy has a 4 inch advantage on Barnes vertically, which allows him to contest shots that Barnes wouldn't be able to.

Jumping ability usually isn't a great predictor of defensive ability anyway. And Barnes probably jumps higher at this stage of their careers. I'm betting Barnes and Iggy have the same amount of weakside blocks. Getting blocks is as much timing as it is size/athleticism. The higher you have to jump to get to a spot, the more timing is involved. Most non-rim protectors aren't THAT great with timing.

If your argument is that Barnes is better suited to guard 3's because he appears bigger on the court (I think it's due to bulk, not length), then fair enough. Iggy is more than long enough to guard 3's.

[turk3d]

Barnes' standing reach is pathetic. It's 8'5.5". Iggy's is 8'9.5" I could care less about a long neck. Their wingspans are the same. Barnes may be taller, but he's got such a long neck that it negates any functional length.

You may be right according to the numbers but I'm pretty sure (just watching) that Barnes has and advantage against bigger guys. 6'6 is pretty small for the SF position. He does make up for it with his jumping ability to some degree. Not really sure who jumps higher at this point in Iggy's career although lately he does seem to have a bit more spring in his legs (perhaps due to Kerr bring him off the bench and limiting his minutes in the first half).

Why does height matter? Standing reach is the only thing that matters frankly. Barnes may by 6'8", but if his shoulders are broad or his neck is long (in this case it's both), it hurts his ability to contest shots vertically. Because his wingspan is long, it helps his ability to contain guys horizontally. Iggy has a 4 inch advantage on Barnes vertically, which allows him to contest shots that Barnes wouldn't be able to.

Jumping ability usually isn't a great predictor of defensive ability anyway. And Barnes probably jumps higher at this stage of their careers. I'm betting Barnes and Iggy have the same amount of weakside blocks. Getting blocks is as much timing as it is size/athleticism. The higher you have to jump to get to a spot, the more timing is involved. Most non-rim protectors aren't THAT great with timing.

If your argument is that Barnes is better suited to guard 3's because he appears bigger on the court (I think it's due to bulk, not length), then fair enough. Iggy is more than long enough to guard 3's.

Actually to your point about jumping ability, that can definitely be a factor and I would say that Iggy can "most" 3s but he does have trouble with some of the longer ones (this isn't to say the same isn't the same for Barnes). From what I see of Barnes, he doesn't outweigh Iggy by much (if at all), and I don't think he's any stronger either., that being the case then why does he play PF and Iggy not (never has from what I remember) other than height in spite of the difference in length, the edge of which goes to Iggy:

Regardless, I think that is pretty decent on his help, otherwise I doubt Kerry would have stuck with him this long. Lately his offense has been pretty crappy, but watch him a little more on if you haven't lately. I think he's improved significantly, one of the reason being he's been more apt to focus on it than in the past fwiw.

[floppymoose]

I think Lee has fallen behind Ezeli on the depth chart. Last few games he has become less focused on d.
I find it hard that a person with a high Basketball IQ on offense has a low one on defense.

Anyone noticed that JMM got DLee's minutes in the 2nd half?

JMM is signed for next season. Maybe Kerr knows something about what happens this offseason that we don't.

[The-Power]

Kerr likes to reward players for good performances, I wouldn't read too much into it. Although it doesn't rule out the option that they already know that Lee will most probably be gone this offseason.