Birth of a DYNASTY?

HiRez · Post #21 » by **HiRez** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:32 am

I think old rem can just claim drunkenness and we'd all believe him. I get really overly optimistic when I'm drunk too.

migya · Post #22 » by **migya** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:15 am

Think a dynasty is a team that wins three straight or something like three or four championships over six years. We need to start with the first one but the team this season has been really good, among the best teams alltime.

This offseason though the FO has to keep Green and if they can, get rid of Lee. Health is always key for any contender, every season. With the cap set to rise for 2016-17, maybe the FO can make another move and add one significant player.

Definitely far from being a dynasty.

Chefcurry · Post #23 » by **Chefcurry** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:20 am

warriors vs cavs in the finals you heard it first..

-chef curry with the pot boyyy

WarriorsEFC · Post #24 » by **WarriorsEFC** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:41 am

ChuckDurn wrote:If I was a fan from another team, came on this board and saw this thread, I would instantly dislike the Warriors (or at least their fans).

Already happening. There is a certain someone in this forum who continually posts on the General Board trying to convince people why everyone in the league should "root for us".

It's cringe-worthy and embarrassing.

jucje32 · Post #25 » by **jucje32** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:53 am

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:Klay and Curry are so good that they make a front court of Barnes, Green, & Bogut actually look dominant.

Without those two this teams a joke. As long as we have them we are a contender. Everyone else is replaceable.

Did Westbrook and Durant make Kendrick Perkins and Thabo Sefolosha look dominant? Do Irving and Lebron do the same for Shumpert and Mozgov? Don't get me wrong, they make those players look better, but the Warriors' supporting cast is legit. They wouldn't be contenders anymore, but when I hear the word "joke" I think of teams like Denver and Philly. No team with winners like Green, Bogut, and Iguodala would ever come close to reaching that status.

michaelm · Post #26 » by **michaelm** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:55 am

HiRez wrote:I think old rem can just claim drunkenness and we'd all believe him. I get really overly optimistic when I'm drunk too.

Didn't note that old REM started the thread. Love his work, and he has obviously been with the Ws for the long haul.

I am superstitious as a sports fan though, and prefer not to challenge karma.

Mac1958 · Post #27 » by **Mac1958** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:45 am

"Dynasty" talk aside...

Man oh man, looking at the regular season team stats, this has to be one of the better regular seasons for any team ever.

.

The-Power · Post #28 » by **The-Power** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:59 am

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:Klay and Curry are so good that they make a front court of Barnes, Green, & Bogut actually look dominant.

Without those two this teams a joke. As long as we have them we are a contender. Everyone else is replaceable.

If you you want to play that game, you should scratch out Klay as well. Klay doesn't make anyone look dominant, it's Curry who does. But you need elite complementary pieces. Green and Bogut are as elite and important pieces as Klay, the roles simply differ.

East Bay Sports · Post #29 » by **East Bay Sports** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:41 pm

Mac1958 wrote:"Dynasty" talk aside...

Man oh man, looking at the regular season team stats, this has to be one of the better regular seasons for any team ever.

.

Hands down one of the top 5 regular season teams since the merger.

Money_ · Post #30 » by **Money_** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:54 pm

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Right now, I'm concerned with getting everyone to the end of the reg season healthy.
Then first round... after that, is all gravy. They definitely have a good strong chance to make it to the finals this year!

That being said, I'm becoming more and more convinced that this ownership wants to stay on top for a good long time.
And I'm all for that....

old rem · Post #31 » by **old rem** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:02 pm

HiRez wrote:I think old rem can just claim drunkenness and we'd all believe him. I get really overly optimistic when I'm drunk too.

Well.... I may have had a few beers and ...was a bit enthusiastic ...but sober ..I still think GSW is the frontrunner THIS year and in great shape for the next few years Perhaps there's some question on how to define dynasty... Do we need to 3-peat? How about being one of the top 5 for 5+ years and getting more than one championship? The Celtics in the 50's,early 60's? The Yankees in the Mickey Mantle-Yogi Berra era? It's unlikely a team again sustains that dominance as long. By GSW standards....heck... a few years as Best of the West counts as Dynasty.

Head Leader · Post #32 » by **Head Leader** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:30 pm

Warriors in 7

oaktownwarriors87 · Post #33 » by **oaktownwarriors87** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:03 pm

jucje32 wrote:Did Westbrook and Durant make Kendrick Perkins and Thabo Sefolosha look dominant? Do Irving and Lebron do the same for Shumpert and Mozgov? Don't get me wrong, they make those players look better, but the Warriors' supporting cast is legit. They wouldn't be contenders anymore, but when I hear the word "joke" I think of teams like Denver and Philly. No team with winners like Green, Bogut, and Iguodala would ever come close to reaching that status.

Yes, they did/do make those guys look dominate. I'm sure Mozgov will triple his net worth thanks to LeBron James. Guys like Kendrick Perkins barely belong in the NBA, yet they get big contracts and stick around because great players make them look better than they really are.

That's exactly what is happening to Barnes, Green and Bogut. I like those guys, but let's not kid ourselves... they're role players. If they left next season you would just replace them with Ezeli, Lee and Igudoala. BAM, still the best starting lineup in the NBA. Why? Thompson and Curry.

One example I like is the Bulls. Outside of Pippen and Jordan, not a single player from the 3rd championship was on the team that won the 4th. "Elite" role players are replaceable. The Spurs have proved this as well.

The-Power wrote:If you you want to play that game, you should scratch out Klay as well. Klay doesn't make anyone look dominant, it's Curry who does. But you need elite complementary pieces. Green and Bogut are as elite and important pieces as Klay, the roles simply differ.

They are not nearly as elite or as important as Klay. On defense, yes, they are as elite as Klay. But you have to play both sides of the court. They will never be as good or as important as Thompson.

The-Power · Post #34 » by **The-Power** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:15 pm

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
The-Power wrote:If you you want to play that game, you should scratch out Klay as well. Klay doesn't make anyone look dominant, it's Curry who does. But you need elite complementary pieces. Green and Bogut are as elite and important pieces as Klay, the roles simply differ.

They are not nearly as elite or as important as Klay. On defense, yes, they are as elite as Klay. But you have to play both sides of the court. They will never be as good or as important as Thompson.

They are head and shoulders above Klay defensively, not simply 'as elite as Klay' - it's actually not close. And there's more to offense than just scoring. Klay is the more valuable player on offense looking at our roster but both, Bogut and Dray, are better playmakers and passers than Klay. Not exactly unimportant considering our style of play and the need to make things a little bit easier for Steph.

But if I recall correctly, we already had this kind of talk once and we agreed to disagree.

Mylie10 · Post #35 » by **Mylie10** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:23 pm

Chefcurry wrote:warriors vs cavs in the finals you heard it first..

-chef curry with the pot boyyy

Remains to be seen, but you definitely aren't the first to say it.

oaktownwarriors87 · Post #36 » by **oaktownwarriors87** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:59 pm

The-Power wrote:
oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
The-Power wrote:If you you want to play that game, you should scratch out Klay as well. Klay doesn't make anyone look dominant, it's Curry who does. But you need elite complementary pieces. Green and Bogut are as elite and important pieces as Klay, the roles simply differ.

They are not nearly as elite or as important as Klay. On defense, yes, they are as elite as Klay. But you have to play both sides of the court. They will never be as good or as important as Thompson.

They are head and shoulders above Klay defensively, not simply 'as elite as Klay' - it's actually not close. And there's more to offense than just scoring. Klay is the more valuable player on offense looking at our roster but both, Bogut and Dray, are better playmakers and passers than Klay. Not exactly unimportant considering our style of play and the need to make things a little bit easier for Steph.

But if I recall correctly, we already had this kind of talk once and we agreed to disagree.

By opponent production, Klay and Iggy are our best defenders; meanwhile, PF and C are where we give up the most.

Also, there is no way that they are better play makers and passers. They are so terrible that they have to pass more, but they are not better.

I guess we will just agree to disagree.

The-Power · Post #37 » by **The-Power** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:14 pm

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
By opponent production, Klay and Iggy are our best defenders; meanwhile, PF and C are where we give up the most.

Most defensive metrics suggest otherwise.

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:Also, there is no way that they are better play makers and passers. They are so terrible that they have to pass more, but they are not better.

They are terrible? Oh, please. But since you believe they can simply be replaced I'm not too surprised about this statement.

And are you trying to say that Klay is more important to our overall playmaking than Bogut and Dray? Both of them have more playmaking duties and do a great job at facilitating while playmaking remains Klay's most obvious weakness. By the way, both guys have a better AST/TO ratio than Klay which is pretty difficult to manage for big men.

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:I guess we will just agree to disagree.

Guess so. You are of the opinion that Klay and Curry are (almost) equally important - if I read your posts correctly - and everyone else is replaceable. I, on the other hand, believe Bogut is clearly our second most important player for this year's playoff success and I am not sure if I'd pick Dray or Klay if I had to choose between these two. Iggy would be number five.

I don't think we can find common ground on this topic.

oaktownwarriors87 · Post #38 » by **oaktownwarriors87** » Wed Apr 1, 2015 5:18 pm

The-Power wrote:
oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
By opponent production, Klay and Iggy are our best defenders; meanwhile, PF and C are where we give up the most.

Most defensive metrics suggest otherwise.

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:Also, there is no way that they are better play makers and passers. They are so terrible that they have to pass more, but they are not better.

They are terrible? Oh, please. But since you believe they can simply be replaced I'm not too surprised about this statement.

And are you trying to say that Klay is more important to our overall playmaking than Bogut and Dray? Both of them have more playmaking duties and do a great job at facilitating while playmaking remains Klay's most obvious weakness. By the way, both guys have a better AST/TO ratio than Klay which is pretty difficult to manage for big men.

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:I guess we will just agree to disagree.

Guess so. You are of the opinion that Klay and Curry are (almost) equally important - if I read your posts correctly - and everyone else is replaceable. I, on the other hand, believe Bogut is clearly our second most important player for this year's playoff success and I am not sure if I'd pick Dray or Klay if I had to choose between these two. Iggy would be number five.

I don't think we can find common ground on this topic.

Assist to turnover? When would Green and Bogut turn the ball over? They aren't asked to do anything difficult on offense because they are both that bad. They're big men and Klay is a jump shooter... still, Klay outscores them in the paint and gets to the line more. That's because Klay creates offense. Excluding the PG's, no one creates more shots at a higher rate than Klay.

Also, defensive RAPM and +/- will be inflated for Bogut and Green since they have Speights and Lee coming off the bench. Klay has Iguodala and Livingston.

Klay is this teams second best/most valuable player and it isn't even close.

Kuya · Post #39 » by **Kuya** » Wed Apr 1, 2015 10:04 pm

They thought the same of OKC a few yrs back, let's win one this year!

The-Power · Post #40 » by **The-Power** » Thu Apr 2, 2015 12:59 am

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:Assist to turnover? When would Green and Bogut turn the ball over? They aren't asked to do anything difficult on offense because they are both that bad.

Well, since you didn't watch the games (otherwise I can't think of any rational explanation about how such a statement can be seriously made) I can see why it has to be difficult to understand what we are doing all season long. The second part is hilarious, though. Good one.

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:They're big men and Klay is a jump shooter... still, Klay outscores them in the paint and gets to the line more. That's because Klay creates offense.

I see: offense is scoring and, well, that's about it. Got it.

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:Also, defensive RAPM and +/- will be inflated for Bogut and Green since they have Speights and Lee coming off the bench. Klay has Iguodala and Livingston.

First of all, raw +/- isn't adjusted. Ergo, it doesn't matter at all who the replacement is. What matters is with whom and how long a player is on the floor with certain other players. It's not a zero-sum situation with regard to a single team. Secondly, adjusted plus-minus stats try to single out the influence of a single player independent of his specific teammates, opponents and replacements. Sometimes it works better, sometimes worse - but to state that Klay's defensive advanced stats suffer because of his replacements doesn't do justice to these approaches and is technically wrong. Even metrics like BPM or VORP, which try to measure the value over replacement, compare the respective players to constructed average players and not their actual replacements. Otherwise all these stats would be practically useless because you can't compare players and I can tell you, the creators aren't stupid.