With the 7th pick of the 2009 NBA Draft...

turk3d · Post #256 » by **turk3d** » Mon May 4, 2009 2:21 pm

"Dominant"? From the best I can remember, the most you can say perhaps is that "at times" Sarunas could take over a game. Fact is (as old Rem pointed out) if you consider him "dominant" at what he did (which was to get to the basket and get fouled as well as be able to finish) you'd have to say the same thing about Maggette who pretty much does the same thing as Runi in that regard. Runi wasn't even really a starter most of his career. Any one who dominates this league will be playing 35-40 minutes a game.

How does one go from being a very good role player to being dominant? If you want to say that he was very good at getting to the basket and getting fouled, then say he's like Maggette (who is a better rebounder and a better ft shooter). Runi, throughout his career (for someone so "dominant") never averaged as much as 30 mpg. To say he was dominant in this league is homerism to the nth degree. A fun guy who gave 110% every time he was out on the floor and very entertaining, but let's not get carried away please.

Post #257 » by **Sleepy51** » Mon May 4, 2009 2:56 pm

Twinkie defense wrote:Sarunas was one of the most dominant guards in the League.

Rubbish.

Twinkie defense · Post #258 » by **Twinkie defense** » Mon May 4, 2009 4:12 pm

FireNellieQuick wrote:You two are debating over the word dominant.

Exactly.

Twinkie defense · Post #259 » by **Twinkie defense** » Mon May 4, 2009 4:15 pm

Jrue is excited about the NBA because he won't have to play defense, he can "be himself."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/college/b ... 3772.story

Post #260 » by **FNQ** » Mon May 4, 2009 5:32 pm

So easy to take that out of context.... Jrue was the SG and rarely used on offense as compared to being their #1 on defense... quote manipulation w/o understanding FTL.

Jrue was a dominant defender... anyone want to argue? I have paragraphs of information including the latin root of dominant, along with a dictionary and thesaurus...

Twinkie defense · Post #261 » by **Twinkie defense** » Mon May 4, 2009 5:52 pm

Hehe.

I don't care about Jrue one way or the other, except that if we draft from 7-10 I'd rather have Ty Lawson. UCLA is a great school but maybe saying "In college, it's all about defense. The NBA seems like it's more fun. You can be you" isn't the smartest thing. Credit to him for putting in some extra work in the offseason.

Twinkie defense · Post #262 » by **Twinkie defense** » Mon May 4, 2009 7:09 pm

From the draft board, John Wall in a little trouble with the law...

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/5075734/

Star-Lord · Post #263 » by **Star-Lord** » Mon May 4, 2009 7:21 pm

... Misdemeanors aren't worth reporting on.

Post #264 » by **FNQ** » Mon May 4, 2009 7:26 pm

Are you kidding? Absolutely they are... breaking and entering by a guy who's a potential #1 pick in the next draft? How stupid do you have to be to put yourself at risk like that? What could be worth it?

It doesnt cripple his stock, but its now a footnote and an official red flag

yehyeh82 · Post #265 » by **yehyeh82** » Mon May 4, 2009 7:52 pm

Come on, he's a high school kid who was messing around in an unoccupied home. That kind of stuff happens all the time, you just usually don't get caught. When I was in high school, we used to go to the new home subdivisions being built and would drink inside of them. Sometimes they were the best place to go. Maybe for some people this is a red flag, but it would be a lot different if the house was occupied. i just see this as a high-schooler being a high-schooler.

5Strong · Post #266 » by **5Strong** » Mon May 4, 2009 7:52 pm

It was a vacant. Not a big deal, imo.

Star-Lord · Post #267 » by **Star-Lord** » Mon May 4, 2009 7:57 pm

FireNellieQuick wrote:Are you kidding? Absolutely they are... breaking and entering by a guy who's a potential #1 pick in the next draft? How stupid do you have to be to put yourself at risk like that? What could be worth it?

It doesnt cripple his stock, but its now a footnote and an official red flag

Oh please... Get off of your high horse long enough to remember when you were a stupid teenager.

Even if you refuse to do that, at least realize that this incident is no where near as serious as some potential high draft picks have had. Allen Iverson got arrested and charged multiple both before and during his tenure at Georgetown, if I remember correctly. Did it affect his stock? Should it have? Absolutely not.

If you want to have a league where everyone is as morally sound as you, I suggest you start one on your own. You can call it the Christian Basketball League.

Post #268 » by **FNQ** » Mon May 4, 2009 8:20 pm

None of you were potential #1 picks in the draft... thats a BUSINESS decision. High horse? Give me a break... take your ad hominem bull :censored:

to other people who have a dissenting opinion than yours... once your done, buy me a new ironymeter...

The guy is a favorite for the #1 pick in the NBA Draft and he's caught breaking and entering... there's no justification for that kind of stupidity. Teams are prepared to invest millions of dollars and untold 'draft pick' value on this kind of player, and these are exactly the red flags they look for...

Meanwhile, AI, genius that he was despite throwing a chair at someone in HS, was drafted #1 and has led a successful, ringless career marred by the 'cant win the big one' stigma and a history of not fitting well as a complimentary piece. I'm sure teams will be knocking others over to get a piece of that action...

Take off your rosy glasses and look at the real world... the #1 pick is guaranteed 10 million bucks... and this guy is getting in trouble w/the police? Legendary dumb.

Post #269 » by **Sleepy51** » Mon May 4, 2009 8:33 pm

"getting in trouble with the police" is a bit of an over statememt. He's not being arrested in gang sweeps. He was in an abandoned house with other teenagers. Probably up to no good, but the amount and type of no good must have been minimal as there were no drug or alchohol or violence charges involved.

I would not jump to the conclusion that this is "character" stuff, but it IS CLEARLY judgement stuff. The fact that he is in the position he is in means he will be held to a higher standard and subject to greater scrutiny. Opportunities come with responsibilities. If he doesn't know that, he's not too bright. If he knows it and put himself in dumb situation anyway, he's also not too bright.

This isn't something that would necessarily make me hesitate to draft him, but is IS something that would make me do a lot more due dilligence and follow his behavior patters much closer as he gets through the next year. It's a first offense. If it's a last, it's pretty meaningless, if there are ANY other issues along the way to next year's draft? He will have buried himself because then it will be a "pattern."

I don't think this affects his draft stock yet, but if it becomes the first of more than one offense? Then it would take on some real weight.

Star-Lord · Post #270 » by **Star-Lord** » Mon May 4, 2009 8:45 pm

FireNellieQuick wrote:None of you were potential #1 picks in the draft... thats a BUSINESS decision. High horse? Give me a break... take your ad hominem bull to other people who have a dissenting opinion than yours... once your done, buy me a new ironymeter...

The guy is a favorite for the #1 pick in the NBA Draft and he's caught breaking and entering... there's no justification for that kind of stupidity. Teams are prepared to invest millions of dollars and untold 'draft pick' value on this kind of player, and these are exactly the red flags they look for...

Meanwhile, AI, genius that he was despite throwing a chair at someone in HS, was drafted #1 and has led a successful, ringless career marred by the 'cant win the big one' stigma and a history of not fitting well as a complimentary piece. I'm sure teams will be knocking others over to get a piece of that action...

Take off your rosy glasses and look at the real world... the #1 pick is guaranteed 10 million bucks... and this guy is getting in trouble w/the police? Legendary dumb.

It doesn't matter if any of us were potential number one picks, dude. Just because he might become a basketball star in the future doesn't change the fact that he's a capricious 18 year old boy. I'm not trying to defend John, here, or what he did. No one can say it wasn't a very poor decision on his part to do what he did. I'm saying that it's completely unfair to hold him to a higher standard than any other 18 year old, just because of his potential to play basketball at a high level. Letting kids be kids, even if they're good at sports, is a better way to make well adjusted adults than to watch over them with a magnifying glass. What's important now is that John realizes he made a mistake, and takes the necessary steps to ensure that it doesn't happen again, not that he did something stupid in the first place. If you can't see that, then, well, you're just plain pretentious, and I really don't know how you can enjoy watching a league full of morally bankrupt athletes.

That irony meter comment was quite appropriate, but for the exact opposite reasons you intended.

Post #271 » by **FNQ** » Mon May 4, 2009 8:53 pm

How is it unfair to hold him to a higher standard when we're essentially defining his worth to be at least 7 digits? From a management side (which you obviously arent considering, so I'd assume you havent been a part of), you absolutely hold him to a high standard... we're talking about the #1 pick in the NBA draft, which is usually worth over 20-25m in cash...

I love the extremism in your argument, that he shouldnt even be in the league... thats a great way of making your point look a whole lot weaker... you'll fit in well here...

The ironymeter? I think its funny you tell me to get off my high horse and and then try to berate me for saying the kid did something stupid.... which will be exactly what he says when he has to comment publicly on it - "I did something stupid and I learned from it"... we need to get that kid off his damned high horse! Also, if you can, help me out where I said that he's not going to learn from this, that he's destined to be a failure and has tons of character issues... because I'm pretty sure I said this hurts his stock and that its a red flag... but who knows. I'm too high up on my horse to read all this stuff...

:rofl:

5Strong · Post #272 » by **5Strong** » Mon May 4, 2009 9:00 pm

I think it was a mistake, but it doesn't hurt his stock. In order to hurt his stock, I think it would need to be indicative of a larger trend or bad character. As long as this is an isolated incident, which it is, his stock is exactly where it was a week ago. Of course, if he messes up more, you can look back at this incident and judge it in a different context. With Allen Iverson, absolutely those arrests should have effected his stock. Just look at his clashes with his coaches and teammates, and the way he quit on Detroit this year.

Star-Lord · Post #273 » by **Star-Lord** » Mon May 4, 2009 9:31 pm

You're right, I'm not looking at this from a management standpoint. Instead, I'm looking at it like any fallible human should. If you want to live your life looking at things only in a black and white prism, never seeing the gray, and making your judgments from there, then that's your choice.

I never berated you to begin with. I certainly never berated you for pointing out what John did was foolish. If anything, I simply pointed out how lame it was to play the morality police, which I see now was a mistake, because it seems like to you the only thing that matters is the kids potential worth to a sports franchise.

It is pretentious to assume that an 18 year old kid hurt his professional future because of a mistake he made. It is pretentious to hold an 18 year old kid to a higher standard, just because of dollar signs. It's incredibly pretentious to do this when you have absolutely zero stake in the kids future.

Twinkie defense · Post #274 » by **Twinkie defense** » Mon May 4, 2009 10:56 pm

Michael Phelps lost a lot of money because he took a hit off a bong. Great talents like Randy Moss and Paul Pierce have slid in the draft and lost millions due to perceived character issues. From what I hear Wall is a can't miss #1 overall next summer, so it would be hard to screw that up. But he is an adult on the cusp of making millions, and given that, you'd hope he'd be smart enough to avoid situations like breaking into an unoccupied house to do whatever it is they were doing (is that the other shoe to drop? I doubt they were having bible study). Sure an ordinary teenager can go into an unoccupied house to play quarters and smoke a bowl during lunch break without multi-million dollar ramifications. But Wall is not an ordinary teenager, and he knows that. Hopefully this is the little incident that keeps him out of trouble over the next year.

Star-Lord · Post #275 » by **Star-Lord** » Mon May 4, 2009 11:41 pm

Michael Phelps is a professional adult, not a teenager getting ready to graduate high school. Once again, it's not about whether what Wall did was right or wrong, that part is obvious. It's about the unreasonable expectations some people put on a kid.

I just never understand how a kid can prematurely cause his worth to drop before he even plays a second of professional ball, simply by acting like a kid. Similarly, I'll never understand how a company like Nike can give $90 million to a kid who hasn't played yet, either.