2012 Draft

[penquin11]

Couples is a lethargic **** who isn't overly explosive, he also plays the wrong position for us to draft him. To be fair John Beason is one of the best ILB's in the NFL and has only recently had injury problems. We drafted Thomas Davis as a Safety....

[ohara]

I dont think Coples position has anything to do with it. Panthers have already met with him, so they are interested. They will think long and hard on passing on him if he is there at #9.

[TheKingofSting]

McShay has Justin Blackmon falling to us, I'd be ecstatic if that happens, our offense would be unstoppable for sure!

[ohara]

McShay has Justin Blackmon falling to us, I'd be ecstatic if that happens, our offense would be unstoppable for sure!

I would dearly love to have Blackmon at #9. But where did you see that? I just went to ESPN and the Mock 3.0 is from the 11th. Has Blackmon to Rams at #6 and Coples to Panthers at #9. Dont think 4.0 has come out yet. Were you looking at an earlier version perhaps?

[TheKingofSting]

McShay has Justin Blackmon falling to us, I'd be ecstatic if that happens, our offense would be unstoppable for sure!

I would dearly love to have Blackmon at #9. But where did you see that? I just went to ESPN and the Mock 3.0 is from the 11th. Has Blackmon to Rams at #6 and Coples to Panthers at #9. Dont think 4.0 has come out yet. Were you looking at an earlier version perhaps?

I guess it has gotten changed since I saw a week or so ago.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft

To the right on the big board at that link he was 9th or 10th then.

[penquin11]

I would literally suffer a seizure if he fell to 9, but its not going to happen, and I pray to god we don't select Couples- the dude is literally the exact same player as Hardy... A big- athletic end who isn't overly explosive....

[ohara]

I would literally suffer a seizure if he fell to 9, but its not going to happen, and I pray to god we don't select Couples- the dude is literally the exact same player as Hardy... A big- athletic end who isn't overly explosive....

Coples does worry me a bit. I agree. So much potential, but has to keep his motor going. I trust our Coach to be able to read him and know if he's worth the pick. I'd love to see Ingram at #9 as I know we could find a way to put him in there and mix up the Defense. So talented, and can play some DE or LB, depending upon the package. And you never have to worry about his motor.

[penquin11]

My dream senario is that Claiborne falls to us at 9. If not we should use Stewart or Williams and our 1st to grab a later 1st (or two) and a third/second.

[ohara]

Interesting new mock by Icness today. Has the Panthers taking two UNC guys, taking Coples in the 1st and Zach Brown in the 2nd.

[penquin11]

I would be furious if that were to happen, couples just isn't explosive enough to warrant being selected at 9. I would MUCH rather grab the kid from USC (Nick Perry) who had a super strong showing at the combine, he is a great athlete who plays hard as hell.

[ohara]

Dont know if you have ESPN Insider access. Cannot post the link as it will not how for you unless you pay for Insider. McShay broke down the Scouts grades for players who grade out in the first 3 rounds. On the DE, Coples is #1, Ingram #2, Upshaw #3.... Perry is #7. They have him as a late 1st round grade. As far as Zach Brown, he is graded as the #3 OLB and they give him a late 2nd grade.

I realize you dont like Coples, but almost every mock and every service has him as a Top 7-Top 10 pick. I can see taking Ingram over him, but none of the rest. But Zack Brown with our 2nd is kind of a stretch as far as value. **For what it is worth, the Charlotte Observor Panthers Beat Writer said the workout Coples had with Carolina was terrific. Seems to think if he is there, they will take him. Put him on the other side of Johnson and let Hardy share time with him.

[penquin11]

Dont know if you have ESPN Insider access. Cannot post the link as it will not how for you unless you pay for Insider. McShay broke down the Scouts grades for players who grade out in the first 3 rounds. On the DE, Coples is #1, Ingram #2, Upshaw #3.... Perry is #7. They have him as a late 1st round grade. As far as Zach Brown, he is graded as the #3 OLB and they give him a late 2nd grade.

I realize you dont like Coples, but almost every mock and every service has him as a Top 7-Top 10 pick. I can see taking Ingram over him, but none of the rest. But Zack Brown with our 2nd is kind of a stretch as far as value. **For what it is worth, the Charlotte Observor Panthers Beat Writer said the workout Coples had with Carolina was terrific. Seems to think if he is there, they will take him. Put him on the other side of Johnson and let Hardy share time with him.

ESPN had frigen Blaine Gabbert rated above Cam Newton until draft night last year, as did most of ESPN's "Scouts". They also heavily criticized Aldon Smith, praised Christian Ponder, said that Bowers would be a "beast", and worst of all had Ingram slated as a top 10 talent..... Seriously ESPN? You call that crap credible for scouting analysis? You can call me borderline arrogant but while I know little about basketball I tend to be DEAD on with football about 90% of the time, and I'm telling you Coples is not the guy we need or even should want....

If you watch tape of him you will understand. He has great size but he was the most sucessful when lining up on the inside of the line, and when you see tape of Coples you often don't see anything very impressive at all- as a matter of fact most of the time its pedestrian, sure he gets good penetration but too often do you see a RB blow past him, quite frankly I don't like him as a starting DE. While Nick Perry is ranked 7th by scouts I like his tape better, sure he isnt as good versus the run and doesnt have quite as much strength but he is much more explosive and works hard on every play.
Also a guy I didn't realize was lining up as a DE who I love (from a potential standpoint) is Whitney Mercilus (I thought he was going OLB) the guy was insane this year and is an extraordinary athlete who can both play the 3-4 OLB slot and starting DE spot, he is big and extremely fast..... He goes hard EVERY play and is extremely explosive. This is a guy I wouldn't mind adding, seriously he is a beast.
here are some highlights:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdQNCZ5ebyw[/youtube]

[ohara]

Penguin, dont sell your Basketball knowledge short. I respect your posts on the Bobcats. You know your stuff. And I can tell you know your football as well. Believe me, I do not put ESPN on a pedestal. I was just using their analysts for Scouts as an example. I review every group I can to compare and contrast what they are saying. And when I mention Coples, I am just repeating what I read on virtually every site. They all say he has the skill, but he just needs to keep the motor going - just as you said. And most seem to think a defense oriented coach will keep him motivated. And Rivera is a defensive minded coach.

Honestly, I get most of my facts and stats from Sirius NFL. Those guys are great. I really like the guys because most played in the NFL and they relate things about the players, how they move, how they react, etc... to what they need to be able to do in the NFL. Very good insight. From what I have heard, they seem to really like Coples, but they do agree that he is a risk if you cannot get him to keep his motor going every play. But by and large, they all seem to see him as a Top 10 pick.

I am really intrigued with Ingram as he has the ability to play DE in a 4-3 and OLB in a 3-4. And I think Rivera wants to get to a point where he can change over now and then to create different packages to wreak havoc on opposing offenses. I really think Ingram is in play for us at #9 if he is still on the Board.

I also like your points about Mercilus. If we ended up trading down to get a later 1st and pick up another 2nd, then I think Mercilus would come into play for us. Absolutely. And your friends at Scouts on ESPN have him as the #5 DE with a 1st round grade.

[penquin11]

Thank you for the compliments Ohara, however I have been following basketball for a year in a half, in contrast I have been following football for 9 years.

That stated Here is my Prospect Rankings per position: *Denotes a player I feel could be an immediate impact player.

QB:
1. Andrew Luck*
2. RG3*
3. Tannenhill
4. Cousins

RB
1. Trent Richardson*
2. Lamar Miller
3. David Wilson
4. Doug Martin

WR
1. Justin Blackmon*: Insane body control and football IQ, as well as incredible acceleration and great hands are what make him so good- he is hard as hell to get down because he is so agile, he isn't a burner like Jeremy Maclin but he displays elite body control on every play.
NFL Comparison: A Rich as Hell Man's version of Michael Crabtree, best case scenario is Torry Holt.

2. Michael Floyd(~*)
NFL Comparison: Tough, but a Reggie Wayne comparison isn't too far off, however it may be more appropriate to say a taller Hakeem Nicks....

3. Stephen Hill
NFL Comparison: Demaryius Thomas

4. Kendall Wright
NFL Comparison: I dont know enough to judge that yet.

5. Brian Quick: The dude literally had to deal with possibly the worst starting QB App State has had in the past decade for the majority of his career and still broke every App State record under the sun. He isn't blazing fast but his long strides make him a power runner- he often breaks at least 1 tackle on each catch. He has possibly the best hands out of any WR in the draft- think AJ Green like hands....
NFL Comparison: Cieling: Chris Carter (and No Im not exaggerating the two both have a common characteristic of being huge and having ridiculously good hands)

DE
1. Whitney Mercilus*: The guy is an incredible athlete- like a Simeon Rice athletic- and though he only has 1 year of any real experience he absolutely slaughtered every high end competition he faced (especially OT Adams from Ohio State) He has a full arsenal of moves and couples it with incredible agility. He can play both a 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE, he is the more versatile than Ingram in regards to his capabilities as he has more sideline to sideline speed and has better length to cover TE's, while he doesn't have much experience in pass coverage he is tall enough and athletic enough to be very effective in zone coverage. Furthermore he is strong enough that he forces a ton of fumbles.
NFL COMPARISON: Dwight Freeney/Simeon Rice.

2. Melvin Ingram: Its not that I'm in love with Ingram, but moreover that Ingram plays hard game in and out and has the speed/IQ to play the 3-4 OLB spot, he reminds me of Jerious Norwood in many ways (stronger though) However the biggest dent in Ingrams game is his lack of arm reach/slight concerns over strength.
NFL Comparison: (tough) Ceiling John Abrahams (not prime John though), floor Jerious Norwood.

3. Coples: Guy is huge, can play inside effectively and can handle double teams. However often he is simply unspectacular and pedestrian- seemingly giving effort less than half the time. It can be frustrating at times because you know that he should be killing Tackles, but he doesnt always do so because of his lack of effort.
NFL Comparison: Best Case Senario Justin Smith

4. Nick Perry: Has speed, plays hard, forces fumbles. Is good at getting to the QB, but ineffective versus the run. He doesn't have the potential the above, but I could see him being a 8-11 sack guy during his prime.

Other Guys to watch: Vinny Curry.

My LB's of interest:
1. Luke Kuelchy*
NFL Comparison: Brian Ulbracher- literally to a T that is the guy I would compare him too.....
2. Courtney Upshaw
NFL Comparison: Tough Call but Kameron Wimbley is at least similar, perhaps Calvin Pace is a better comparison.
3. TBC!

[ohara]

Like your analysis. I am a little higher on Hill and Wright as WR's. I think both will be very good and make an impact. But both are squarely behind Blackmon and Floyd. I put Alshon Jeffries as #5 WR on the Board. It will be interesting to watch Mercilus, wherever he is drafted. I just did not see enough of him to judge if he can be the top DE in the draft. But when he gets to the NFL, we will find out.

[penquin11]

What are your reads on Wright and Hill? To be frank Demaryius Thomas is the perfect player comparison to Hill, same play style, same athleticism..... But what about Wright, Ive heard he is a great slot WR, but other than that I don't know much about him...

[ohara]

I think Wright will be terrific. All year people had him ranked highly as he caught passes from RG3. But at the Combine, he ran a 4.6 and people were down on him. At Pre Day he was back in the 4.4's so he is back on track to be a 1st rounder. I can see him as a slot. Hill is lightening fast and tall. He will likely go late 1st, but I wish he lasted until our 2nd. Hill is the guy I really like if we traded back and had a pick in the mid 20's. I'd love a solid CB and WR wout of the 1st 2 rounds if we were lucky.

[penquin11]

Wow Trent Richardson ran a 4.43 40 at his pro day, knocked the **** out of the pad holders on blocking practice (literally the guy flew to the ground).... He was expected to run a 4.52 so the 4.43 is just huge for him. I have a feeling Richardson could be a HOF RB

[ohara]

Wow Trent Richardson ran a 4.43 40 at his pro day, knocked the **** out of the pad holders on blocking practice (literally the guy flew to the ground).... He was expected to run a 4.52 so the 4.43 is just huge for him. I have a feeling Richardson could be a HOF RB

Totally agree with you on Richardson. Kid is a beast!

[TheKingofSting]

One of the analysts on Path to the Draft on NFL Network called Justin Blackmon more Anquan Boldin and Michael Floyd more Larry Fitzgerald, if that is the case hopefully we are taking a long look at Floyd.