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Cutler 2020

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16
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Re: Cutler 2020 

Post#81 » by ChicagoStrong » Thu Jan 2, 2014 8:33 pm

OMG
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Re: Cutler 2020 

Post#82 » by LoveDaBoo » Thu Jan 2, 2014 8:35 pm

DroppinDimes wrote:
dice wrote:
DroppinDimes wrote:Anyone who thinks McCown was the answer is wrong. He played good for a stretch when the team needed him to. He played some of the weakest defenses as the starter. Anyone who thinks he's better than Jay is wrong. There is no way we could go into next season with McCown as the starter. He was a journeyman for a reason. There are also no other QB's available unless we traded for someone. Jay isn't the QB I thought he was when the Bears traded for him but he's still a quality QB and more than half the league would love to have him. Great move by the Bears to lock him up early. Now work on that piss poor defense.

1) nobody claims that mccown is better than cutler. he just was this year in this system
2) it's not about who's better. it's about who's better AT THE PRICE WE CAN SIGN HIM FOR. a relatively cheap 2 year deal for mccown would have left a lot more money to spend on the defense than this cutler deal does


I get what you're trying to say but my point is McCown being your starter is bad. We caught lighting in a bottle in my opinion with McCown. Based on his history, you can't expect great numbers even with a QB guru as the head coach. A 2 year deal for a guy that you know is not as good as Cutler and after the 2 years, you're right back where you don't want to be and that's having to worry about the QB position. Yes you can draft a QB but that doesn't mean that QB is going to be anything good. Look at the QB landscape right now.

Well, we have Cutler locked up, and guess what? I'm still worried about the QB position.
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Re: Cutler 2020 

Post#83 » by LoveDaBoo » Thu Jan 2, 2014 8:39 pm

chitownsports4ever wrote:We are done ......this is a typical Bears move . We haggle Forte to death and hes done nothing but produce since the day he arrived while overpaying Cutler for the same archaic reasons that Angelo traded for him in a first place.

2 seasons from now Emery,Trestman, and Cutler are all shown the door .

What an absolute mess !!!

Nope. 3 seasons. We're locked into this for 3 seasons.
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Re: Cutler 2020 

Post#84 » by CBS7 » Thu Jan 2, 2014 8:44 pm

chitownsports4ever wrote:The defense is only going to get worse


If you truly think that after this horrible season riddled with injuries and poor play that resulted in an all time Bears worst defense and historically bad rushing defense, there's no reason for you to follow the Bears during the next few seasons.

Not to mention that we have a lot of ways to fix the defense this year since our offense is mostly set. With how bad the defense was last year, it's moronic to think it'll only get worse.

and we just overpaid at the most important position a guy devoid of any leadership skills whatsever .

This is not good its a setback


Guess we should just agree to disagree because there's no changing either of our minds.

Cutler is a solid QB. We did overpay for him but unless we're willing to devote the next couple years to developing a young guy and/or go with an old career backup, he's the best option.
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Re: Cutler 2020 

Post#85 » by blumeany » Thu Jan 2, 2014 8:45 pm

LoveDaBoo wrote:Well, we have Cutler locked up, and guess what? I'm still worried about the QB position.


Me too, but know what? There was no other viable option that doesn't waste multiple seasons and require a massive gamble.
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Re: Cutler 2020 

Post#86 » by LoveDaBoo » Thu Jan 2, 2014 8:46 pm

blumeany wrote:Chitown - I think you're being overly pessimistic. And I think a lot of people are being unrealistic when it comes to acquiring a quarterback better than Jay Cutler. Think about that top tier of QBs today - Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers. Now think about how long all those guys have been playing. Now think about all the QBs that have been drafted into the league since these guys came up. That is a very, very small number. On top of that, all of those guys were selected under different circumstances. Manning was only available to Denver because of a freak injury and Indy wanting to move on. Originally, he was a #1 overall pick - not easy to get unless your team decides to completely tank. Brady was a 6th round pick that finally got to play because a guy got injured. He came out of absolutely nowhere. Drew Brees was picked in the second round because most were concerned with his size. Brees only became available to New Orleans because the Chargers wanted to jerk him around when it came to negotiating his new contract. As 'good' as Rivers is (pretty much same results/resume as Cutler), Brees has been much better. Rodgers was a first round pick who didn't start until his 4th year. Another guy who sort of blossomed out of nowhere.

Rivers has had quite a lot better career than Cutler.

So the odds of going out there in the draft and landing anyone near Cutler in ability are close to lottery-type levels.

What do you mean by "ability?" Arm strength, or actual Quarterbacking acumen?

I agree that Cutler has unique tools that you're not likely to replicate, but I disagree that there's not many guys that could do his job better than him in this offense. We know that because McCown did just that, and he was coaching highschool football.

Do I think the guaranteed money was steep? Yeah. But there were truly no better options out there. There were no free agents out there that would knock your socks off. This isn't a QB class for the ages where there was a no brainer guy that will be there at 14 and ready to start. Yeah, you could plod your way next season with McCown, but again, why do that with McCown when you can do it with Cutler AND still keep an eye out for young free agents or draft picks that you can groom?

Money, obviously. You could sign McCown on the cheap and develop who you draft @ 14. It's a gamble, but you already know that Cutler isn't anything special. You're only trying to do better than a middling QB, which is what Cutler has proved he is.
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Re: Cutler 2020 

Post#87 » by LoveDaBoo » Thu Jan 2, 2014 8:47 pm

blumeany wrote:
LoveDaBoo wrote:Well, we have Cutler locked up, and guess what? I'm still worried about the QB position.


Me too, but know what? There was no other viable option that doesn't waste multiple seasons and require a massive gamble.

This contract wastes 3 seasons guaranteed, is a massive gamble, and costs more capspace than any other alternative.

Edit: or hell, if you want to give him yet another chance, you could tag Cutler. If he performs, you're in no worse position next year than you are now.
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Re: Cutler 2020 

Post#88 » by CBS7 » Thu Jan 2, 2014 8:49 pm

Before his injuries Jay was not playing like a middling QB.
This offense was top 10 with Jay before he got injured. It has the potential to be even better with minor changes. IMO you pay to keep a guy who can lead an offense that was top 10 and should only get better.
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Re: Cutler 2020 

Post#89 » by CBS7 » Thu Jan 2, 2014 8:50 pm

I will say the injury concerns are valid though. It sucks how often we have to say "when he was healthy", "before he got injured" etc.
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Re: Cutler 2020 

Post#90 » by LoveDaBoo » Thu Jan 2, 2014 8:51 pm

CBS7 wrote:Before his injuries Jay was not playing like a middling QB.

He pretty much was.

This offense was top 10 with Jay before he got injured. It has the potential to be even better with minor changes. IMO you pay to keep a guy who can lead an offense that was top 10 and should only get better.

I like this offense. Problem is, this offense looked at least as good if not better with Josh friggin' McCown running it. Kinda hard to credit Jay for this offense and use that as the basis to give him a massive contract.
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Re: Cutler 2020 

Post#91 » by CBS7 » Thu Jan 2, 2014 8:55 pm

LoveDaBoo wrote:
CBS7 wrote:Before his injuries Jay was not playing like a middling QB.

He pretty much was.


On pace for ~4400 yards and 32 TD passes is not "middling".

This offense was top 10 with Jay before he got injured. It has the potential to be even better with minor changes. IMO you pay to keep a guy who can lead an offense that was top 10 and should only get better.

I like this offense. Problem is, this offense looked at least as good if not better with Josh friggin' McCown running it. Kinda hard to credit Jay for this offense and use that as the basis to give him a massive contract.


Again, McCown went off against the very worst defenses in the league. I loved how he played, but lets not forget he looked good in a small stretch against horrible defenses and is a 34 year old career backup.
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Re: Cutler 2020 

Post#92 » by blumeany » Thu Jan 2, 2014 8:59 pm

LoveDaBoo wrote:
blumeany wrote:
LoveDaBoo wrote:Well, we have Cutler locked up, and guess what? I'm still worried about the QB position.


Me too, but know what? There was no other viable option that doesn't waste multiple seasons and require a massive gamble.

This contract wastes 3 seasons guaranteed, is a massive gamble, and costs more capspace than any other alternative.


Your alternative is McCown for a season and drafting best available QB at 14? That's an instant waste of 3 years as well. McCown ain't taking you to the Super Bowl. AT BEST, he might get you a wild card. Because guess what? Detroit will probably be better next year. The Packers will probably be better next year. The Bears are fighting from behind because they need to rebuild their defense. The other two teams will just be adding onto their rosters. Detroit may (MAY) actually get a coaching staff that isn't a bunch of knuckleheads and can actually steer that ship of talented (but dimwitted) players towards the playoffs and beyond.

The odds of your rookie suddenly bringing you to the playoffs in his first full season are high as well. Super Bowl appearance? Not likely. Year 2? Maybe. Maybe if this guy is talented enough. But again, this is some imaginary draft pick we are talking about.

With Cutler for 3 years, you have an actual shot AND you have time to bring in the RIGHT development QB and not just the NEXT development QB. You have draft spots you can now spend on other parts of the team and not just for a QB out of need.

This is all not to mention the effect on the team of the Bears saying 'bye bye' to Cutler. How does Marshall handle it? Are you ready to trade him away and give the keys to Alshon and Wilson as your 1-2? How do other players react? How do free agents react? Isn't it better that this team shows that they have a plan and that they work to immediately resign the players they feel are most valuable? Doesn't that give free agents the idea that this team will take care of you when you perform well?
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Re: Cutler 2020 

Post#93 » by RedBulls83 » Thu Jan 2, 2014 9:00 pm

CBS7 wrote:I will say the injury concerns are valid though. It sucks how often we have to say "when he was healthy", "before he got injured" etc.

Yeah...it's comparable to the Bulls and Rose, obviously not as severe.
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Re: Cutler 2020 

Post#94 » by blumeany » Thu Jan 2, 2014 9:01 pm

If you believe in Trestman as the coach, then you have to believe in Cutler. Trestman has obviously chosen Cutler . He has married Cutler. He has tied his head coaching future to Cutler. He knows much more about football and offense than we do. I'll run with Trestman.
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Re: Cutler 2020 

Post#95 » by blumeany » Thu Jan 2, 2014 9:04 pm

And Rivers has had better stats, but hasn't achieved much more than Cutler - especially recently. He also didn't have to deal with the absolute absence of offensive talent around him for 4 seasons.
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Re: Cutler 2020 

Post#96 » by CBS7 » Thu Jan 2, 2014 9:09 pm

I embrace the consistency. Cutler may not be the greatest, but I was getting pretty tired of starting a new QB every other week from 2004-2008 (sans the super bowl year).
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Re: Cutler 2020 

Post#97 » by blumeany » Thu Jan 2, 2014 9:12 pm

CBS7 wrote:I embrace the consistency. Cutler may not be the greatest, but I was getting pretty tired of starting a new QB every other week from 2004-2008 (sans the super bowl year).


The Bears didn't have a QB that year, they had a juggs machine just throwing balls in the air and getting knocked over. :lol: Or something like that. That team was ALLLLLL defense and Hester.
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Re: Cutler 2020 

Post#98 » by LoveDaBoo » Thu Jan 2, 2014 9:13 pm

CBS7 wrote:
LoveDaBoo wrote:
CBS7 wrote:Before his injuries Jay was not playing like a middling QB.

He pretty much was.


On pace for ~4400 yards and 32 TD passes is not "middling".

I had him as on pace for 27 TD. At any rate, note he only threw for 19. On an offense that has the best WR tandem in the league, 'middling' seems apt.

This offense was top 10 with Jay before he got injured. It has the potential to be even better with minor changes. IMO you pay to keep a guy who can lead an offense that was top 10 and should only get better.

I like this offense. Problem is, this offense looked at least as good if not better with Josh friggin' McCown running it. Kinda hard to credit Jay for this offense and use that as the basis to give him a massive contract.

Again, McCown went off against the very worst defenses in the league. I loved how he played, but lets not forget he looked good in a small stretch against horrible defenses and is a 34 year old career backup.

Oh please. That's such a lame excuse. How did Cutler do against Philly's crap defense? Oh, right. It's not just that McCown did well in those specific games, but the fact that he ran the offense and made all the throws. He didn't hold on to the ball too long and take sacks or fumble it when he did. These are the things we see with Cutler: a good arm offset by poor QB skills, resulting in middling play.
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Re: Cutler 2020 

Post#99 » by LoveDaBoo » Thu Jan 2, 2014 9:15 pm

blumeany wrote:
LoveDaBoo wrote:
blumeany wrote:
Me too, but know what? There was no other viable option that doesn't waste multiple seasons and require a massive gamble.

This contract wastes 3 seasons guaranteed, is a massive gamble, and costs more capspace than any other alternative.


Your alternative is McCown for a season and drafting best available QB at 14? That's an instant waste of 3 years as well. McCown ain't taking you to the Super Bowl. AT BEST, he might get you a wild card. Because guess what? Detroit will probably be better next year. The Packers will probably be better next year. The Bears are fighting from behind because they need to rebuild their defense. The other two teams will just be adding onto their rosters. Detroit may (MAY) actually get a coaching staff that isn't a bunch of knuckleheads and can actually steer that ship of talented (but dimwitted) players towards the playoffs and beyond.

Neither will Cutler, then.

The odds of your rookie suddenly bringing you to the playoffs in his first full season are high as well. Super Bowl appearance? Not likely. Year 2? Maybe. Maybe if this guy is talented enough. But again, this is some imaginary draft pick we are talking about.

So? How likely is it that Cutler leads you to the Superbowl? Not bloody.

With Cutler for 3 years, you have an actual shot AND you have time to bring in the RIGHT development QB and not just the NEXT development QB. You have draft spots you can now spend on other parts of the team and not just for a QB out of need.

In other words, a bad, low-round QB. Treadmill.

This is all not to mention the effect on the team of the Bears saying 'bye bye' to Cutler. How does Marshall handle it? Are you ready to trade him away and give the keys to Alshon and Wilson as your 1-2? How do other players react? How do free agents react? Isn't it better that this team shows that they have a plan and that they work to immediately resign the players they feel are most valuable? Doesn't that give free agents the idea that this team will take care of you when you perform well?

You can't think like that. GM runs the show.
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Re: Cutler 2020 

Post#100 » by chitownsports4ever » Thu Jan 2, 2014 9:17 pm

blumeany wrote:If you believe in Trestman as the coach, then you have to believe in Cutler. Trestman has obviously chosen Cutler . He has married Cutler. He has tied his head coaching future to Cutler. He knows much more about football and offense than we do. I'll run with Trestman.


You are right which is I why i said its a set back and I believe we will be cleaning house in 2 years. The same guy who basically rode with Jay in the Lions game amiright ?

Now again as I said before I wasnt against bringing jay back but the pushing all the chips to center of the table for a guy who has proven absolutely nothing at this point is a mistake. Cutler is a capable QB but in no way is he a bet the farm on QB. Injuries,leadership and the inability to play big in big games are huge here .
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