yardbarker

2013 Off Season Thread - Working On Ext For Burnett - Pg 129

Moderators: MickeyDavis, paulpressey25

Post#301 Re: 2013 Off Season Thread - TT Interview Pg
Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:26 am by BigDee

No to Turner and kick the tires on Canty.
"Rusty......Rusty!!!!!!!" (referring to the horse with horrible beef-a-rino farts).
BigDee




Head Coach
User avatar
Posts: 6,950
And1: 156
Joined: Jul 11, 2006
Location: Canada
Top

Post#302 Re: 2013 Off Season Thread - TT Interview Pg
Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:14 am by Newz

Bucksfans1and2 wrote:
Newz wrote:I see where Minter would play... in Hawk's spot. But where does Ogletree fit in our defense? He seems incredibly talented, but doesn't he weigh like 235 or something? Where does he fit in a 3-4?


Opposite Hawk. He's got potential to be amazing as a WILB.


So then what happens to Bishop? When healthy he is one of our best players. Can he slide over into Hawk's spot?
Aaron Rodgers: Beltin' the world one n00b at a time.
Newz



RealGM
User avatar
Posts: 39,827
And1: 1,458
Joined: Dec 4, 2005
Top

Post#303 Re: 2013 Off Season Thread - TT Interview Pg
Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:47 am by Jollay

I really wanted us to go after Canty hard last time but now I have lukewarm interest. Worth exploring however.

He would still be a decent upgrade.
PMandS.com--politics, movies, sports
Jollay
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
User avatar
Posts: 11,473
And1: 197
Joined: Apr 24, 2003
Top

Post#304 Re: 2013 Off Season Thread - TT Interview Pg
Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:45 am by Bucksfans1and2

Newz wrote:
Bucksfans1and2 wrote:
Newz wrote:I see where Minter would play... in Hawk's spot. But where does Ogletree fit in our defense? He seems incredibly talented, but doesn't he weigh like 235 or something? Where does he fit in a 3-4?


Opposite Hawk. He's got potential to be amazing as a WILB.


So then what happens to Bishop? When healthy he is one of our best players. Can he slide over into Hawk's spot?


No, Bishop would be pretty awful at Hawk's spot.

He's not big enough first of all. Bishop plays at 235, Hawk played around 255 this year. Bishop also doesn't play with the right mindset. Similar to how you can't teach nasty to offensive lineman, you can't teach SILB instincts. The entire purpose of our run defense is to keep Bishop free so that he can fly around and make things happen. Putting him at Hawk's spot would be a disaster.

Bishop's a pretty good WILB, he's just born with the "Attack" mindset that people love. That mindset is great at the WILB spot, but SILB has you playing under control and taking on blockers at the LOS. The SILB takes on the pulling guard, or the fullback, or the free O-Lineman to make the running back cut it back, and right as he cuts back he should be getting clobbered by the WILB coming down.

Image

Image

Hope these help demonstrate Hawk's role better than words can. God knows I've tried explaining it and y'all still want his head on a pike.

Ironically Hawk doesn't actually have good SILB instincts. He's just cerebral enough and is a good enough athlete that that he can fake it and do an alright job. If Hawk actually had instincts worth a damn he'd be the best LB in the league. Sadly you can't teach it. That's why guys like Bishop or Bowman in Frisco who are underwhelming athletically can be really good players and freak athletes like Hawk who can't see it are just average.

People forget that Hawk was drafted as a 4-3 Will Backer. It says a lot about Hawk's ability's as a true football player that he can play the two LB positions that are most different from each other. That's also the reason he got overpaid, it wasn't just 34 teams bidding on him, it was the whole damn league.

Also, (sorry for rambling incoherently) Hawk had a pretty good year this year. Compare his numbers to Patrick Willis and they're not nearly as lopsided as you'd think. Add the quality of D-Line in front of them and Hawk comes out smelling like fricking roses.

Hawk was at 120 total tackles, 81 solo, 39 assisted. 9 TFL 3 sacks 6 stuffs
Willis was at 120 total tackles, 88 solo, 32 assisted. 7 TFL .5 sack 5 stuffs

In fairness, Willis added 2 FFs, 2 INTs, and 9 PDs to his stat line, where as Hawk is goose egg in all three categories.

Also, (I think I'm done after this one) you have to remember that he plays in Capers defense. That means a lot of things but mostly for an ILB it means that you're seeing only two DLineman in front of you, way more than anybody else in the league. Yeah, Pickett's one of the best in the league at that job, but he's still only one guy. As the ILB in that scheme you are NOT put in a position to succeed.

I'm not saying Hawk is a great player, I'm not even saying he's a good player. I'm just saying that there are a lot of things working against him and that football is a complex game. You have to take everything into account before you make a judgement on the guy.
Bucksfans1and2
Banned User
Posts: 16,045
And1: 189
Joined: Jun 28, 2008
Top

Post#305 Re: 2013 Off Season Thread - TT Interview Pg
Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:28 am by LittleRooster

Great post BF
LittleRooster



Starter
User avatar
Posts: 2,154
And1: 131
Joined: Apr 2, 2010
Top

Post#306 Re: 2013 Off Season Thread - TT Interview Pg
Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:50 pm by eagle13

I am begining to see the light. There has to be some dam reason TT paid him so much. However wonder why Hawk was stripped of Def signal caller? - coaches gave it to Bishop then smith then Jones. And still the fact hawk rarely makes head on stops but gets dragged hanging on hip of runner.

BF what grade would you give Hawk in relation to others that play his position SILB?

IF the OL-DL-S-CB at 26 were not value & Minter was there at 26 would you take him to replace Hawk or do prefer Hawk and draft a value OLB, RB, TE or WR? (suppose Perry's health is 100% & TT chooss to keep finley)
eagle13
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,888
And1: 79
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Location: san diego
Top

Post#307 Re: 2013 Off Season Thread - TT Interview Pg
Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:44 pm by Henchman24

Ian Rapoport reporting (via Twitter) that the Packers are considering tagging Jennings...

Henchman24
Ballboy
Posts: 18
And1: 2
Joined: Jan 3, 2010
Top

Post#308 Re: 2013 Off Season Thread - TT Interview Pg
Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:24 am by Bucksfans1and2

eagle13 wrote:I am begining to see the light. There has to be some dam reason TT paid him so much. However wonder why Hawk was stripped of Def signal caller? - coaches gave it to Bishop then smith then Jones. And still the fact hawk rarely makes head on stops but gets dragged hanging on hip of runner.

BF what grade would you give Hawk in relation to others that play his position SILB?

IF the OL-DL-S-CB at 26 were not value & Minter was there at 26 would you take him to replace Hawk or do prefer Hawk and draft a value OLB, RB, TE or WR? (suppose Perry's health is 100% & TT chooss to keep finley)


I wish Hawk was a bigger hitter. I really do. Sadly part of the lacking instincts is that Hawk generally knows where to go, but he doesn't have the Ray Lewis, superhuman sixth sense that lets him know where the ballcarrier is and where he's going at all times. Because he's just not that guy, a lot of the time Hawk ends up just slightly out of position and throws an arm out, because that's all he can get. It looks ****, because NFL caliber backs will drag you if you don't get a hat on them and you don't have help coming. It's just one of those deals that that's a limitation of Hawk's game.

Never doubt that Hawk's a hitter. Not once in his football career has Hawk shied away from a block or a tackle. He'll lay the wood if he can, but he's not gonna gamble. He's not gonna risk a missed tackle going for the knockout shot. Because he so often doesn't find himself with his feet set and his body positioned he ends up going for the fundamentally sound, if boring, tackle. Part of what made Ray Lewis such a fierce tackler is that the guy always had his lower body in position to deliver that shot. Hawk just doesn't have the instincts that Lewis did to get himself in the proper position.

Burnett was actually the guy who ended up with the headset for us in most games. I didn't realize, he played EVERY defensive snap for us. My guess for why the headset got taken away from Hawk is that Hawk isn't in on the 3-Safety, 1-LB sub-packages, and you always need that headset on the field, especially when you're getting crazy. Part of being the WILB is that you're trusted to be better in coverage. Not sure if that's actually the case for Smith vs. Hawk, but the staff seemed to feel that way. I can see why they would prefer Jones over Hawk in that look though.

As for the overall grade, it's hard to say. . .

David Harris for the Jets is better.
The 49er guys play it both ways, but both are better than Hawk.
Fletcher is better for the Redskins. Hawk's better than Perry Riley though
Cushing is better
The Chiefs play it both ways. Hawk's better than Greenwood but not as good as Johnson
Steelers play it both ways. Hawk's better than Spence but not as good as Timmons

Hawk is better than however the Cardinals are starting at that spot.
I'd take Hawk over whichever of Carter/Connor is starting for the Cowboys.
Hawk is better than the Colts guys
Hawk is probably better than Takeo Spikes

Essentially Hawk is the definition of average. He's a C+/B- guy.

The thing about Hawk is that he's almost never the cause of a big run. You can even see in the Vikings games. We filled gaps. We matched them man for man in the hole, and a big part of that was Hawk taking on Felton, who very much earned his trip to Honolulu. What we didn't do, was get Peterson on the ground once we killed the initial surge, and that's the responsibility of Brad Jones and the OLBs moreso than Hawk. Hawk is an extremely "safe" player.

You pay for that though, with the lack of impact plays. Hawk doesn't gamble, so he doesn't win. You don't get the FFs or the stuffs at a high rate. Ray Lewis built his hall of fame platform on shooting the "wrong" gap and taking down the ballcarrier before he reached the hole. He would slip a block in the hole and get the RB. And that's great, but you never see the plays where he didn't get the RB or by trying to slip the block he gave up a big gain, where the guy got yards when Ray didn't follow the assignment. Ray's great because he won a vast majority of the time when he gambled, but there were times when he lost too. Hawk doesn't lose because he gambled. There's something to be said for "safe" at that spot in this look with the talent on this defense.

I can't answer the "Would you take Minter?" question without seeing a board. He's in a whole bunch of guys that I would have to hold my nose to select at 26.

The guys that are somewhat realistic that I'd be excited about at 26 right now:

Cyprien, Rambo (I'm not saying it's a good pick, just one I'd like), Rhodes, and I'll know about the OLBs in 72 hours.

Just going off of Walt's Mock

Jones has a busted back
I don't want to take an interior lineman without elite drive skills like Cooper
Ask me about Mingo after they go through the drills
Fluker can't pass protect
Te'o can't shed a block (And it wasn't just Alabama)
Ogletree is soft and stupid
Hankins has a bad motor
I don't want a CB without elite man-skills like Banks (Though I may like him at Safety)
Sylvester Williams is overrated
I don't see the value in Allen when I can get a receiver who's similarly talented in the third round who will be just as capable of not seeing the field.
I'm not sure if Minter projects to be that much better than Hawk
I don't think Lacy, or any back in this class, is a true difference maker in the pros.
Kawann Short is Worthy's fatter brother.
Ask me about Okafor after the DEs go through drills
Jenkins gets blasted off the ball way too much for an elite lineman and doesn't get sacks.
Bucksfans1and2
Banned User
Posts: 16,045
And1: 189
Joined: Jun 28, 2008
Top

Post#309 Re: 2013 Off Season Thread - TT Interview Pg
Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:56 am by MickeyDavis

I'd be very very surprised if we tagged Jennings unless TT has a trade worked out like he did with Corey Williams a few years ago.
If the Cincinnati Reds were really the first major league baseball team, who did they play?
MickeyDavis
Global Mod
Global Mod
User avatar
Posts: 41,383
And1: 1,076
Joined: May 1, 2002
Location: The Craps Table
Top

Post#310 Re: 2013 Off Season Thread - TT Interview Pg
Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:44 am by Bucksfans1and2

MickeyDavis wrote:I'd be very very surprised if we tagged Jennings unless TT has a trade worked out like he did with Corey Williams a few years ago.


Everybody's at the combine, the misinformation captial of the NFL. I'd be stun if this was anything more than floating a rumor out there and seeing who makes a call
Bucksfans1and2
Banned User
Posts: 16,045
And1: 189
Joined: Jun 28, 2008
Top

Post#311 Re: 2013 Off Season Thread - TT Interview Pg
Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:30 am by Enrique

If they tag Jennings, probably means Finley is gone.
Enrique
Senior
Posts: 624
And1: 13
Joined: Jul 31, 2006
Top

Post#312 Re: 2013 Off Season Thread - TT Interview Pg
Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:50 am by Reddeye

Bob McGinn ‏@BobMcGinn

Things can always change, but I've been told that #Dolphins' Joe Philbin isn't a huge fan of Greg Jennings as a player. Needs a WR but
Reddeye
Pro Prospect
User avatar
Posts: 813
And1: 0
Joined: Mar 1, 2004
Top

Post#313 Re: 2013 Off Season Thread - TT Interview Pg
Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:04 am by MickeyDavis

This may turn out to be a Cullen Jenkins situation. Jennings will get a reasonable offer from another team that TT would willingly match but Jennings will walk anyway.
If the Cincinnati Reds were really the first major league baseball team, who did they play?
MickeyDavis
Global Mod
Global Mod
User avatar
Posts: 41,383
And1: 1,076
Joined: May 1, 2002
Location: The Craps Table
Top

Post#314 Re: 2013 Off Season Thread - TT Interview Pg
Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:27 am by zmanishere11

MickeyDavis wrote:This may turn out to be a Cullen Jenkins situation. Jennings will get a reasonable offer from another team that TT would willingly match but Jennings will walk anyway.


Yuuuuup. I'm still hoping he walks though....

Just saw this too:

Report: Packers torn on keeping Jermichael Finley

Posted by Josh Alper on February 25, 2013, 9:44 AM EST

AP
Sunday brought word that the Packers are still considering using their franchise tag on wide receiver Greg Jennings and that doesn’t seem to be the only issue vexing them with the start of free agency approaching quickly.

Bob McGinn of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports that the team is “torn” about whether or not they will keep tight end Jermichael Finley for the 2013 season. The question of Finley’s future has been batted around for months, with McGinn previously reporting that the Packers had already decided to dump Finley before the second year of the two-year deal he signed last offseason.

Now the word is that the Packers coaching staff and General Manager Ted Thompson want Finley to return for another year while “other people in the organization” favor his release. That split would seem to favor Finley’s return, although there may be a desire to revisit the financial picture on the Packers’ end of things.

Finley is due to have a cap figure of $8.75 million, a number McGinn suggests that the team might like to pare down via a restructuring although it’s unclear whether Finley would feel the need to take a pay cut to remain in Green Bay. The tight end market isn’t overflowing this offseason and Finley might decide to roll the dice on the possibility that someone else will give him a similar contract that runs beyond this season if faced with any demand to revisit his Packers contract.


If he takes a 50% salary reduction I'm fine with it (at least that way we get a comp pick if he leaves the following year). Can't imagine he's remotely interested in that though. I'd ask "how does this guy skate by every year with minimal production, lots of drops, and lots of complaining" but we all know the answer to that (it's the dreaded "P" word).
zmanishere11
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,347
And1: 53
Joined: May 19, 2002
Location: Appleton, WI
Top

Post#315 Re: 2013 Off Season Thread - TT Interview Pg
Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:30 am by emunney

Obviously any restructuring would involve base salary being converted into signing bonus and additional years. As BF1&2 pointed out, they're not going to ask him to just take less money a year after he signed. It all depends on whether he wants to be here or not.
Mega Giannis!
NY Daily News wrote:Eddy Curry claims he slept for only two hours Sunday night because he couldn't stop thinking about ghosts.
emunney
RealGM
User avatar
Posts: 30,951
And1: 2,447
Joined: Feb 21, 2005
Location: Trusting in Thannies
Top

Post#316 Re: 2013 Off Season Thread - TT Interview Pg
Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:48 am by wichmae

Release him and take Eifert
wichmae
RealGM
User avatar
Posts: 12,853
And1: 238
Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Location: Milwaukee
Top

Post#317 Re: 2013 Off Season Thread - TT Interview Pg
Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:57 am by eagle13

Just play him 1 more year & see if he plays/acts as last season's ridiculos 1st OR promisng 2nd half. don't want to let him go if he's finally right. Also gives chance to see how Quarless is. Plus i don't want to burn a 1 or 2 on a TE.
eagle13
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,888
And1: 79
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Location: san diego
Top

Post#318 Re: 2013 Off Season Thread - TT Interview Pg
Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:31 pm by Bucksfans1and2

eagle13 wrote:Just play him 1 more year & see if he plays/acts as last season's ridiculos 1st OR promisng 2nd half. don't want to let him go if he's finally right. Also gives chance to see how Quarless is. Plus i don't want to burn a 1 or 2 on a TE.


Pretty much this, same deal with Hawk, you could stand to improve the position, but the resources required to do so are better spent elsewhere.

So, again, we wait and dance the Finley dance, hoping that he breaks out and turns into the genuine stud that he could be, meanwhile we know that he probably will never become a true star, but think he could be an upper tier TE talent-wise that fits the system very well.
Bucksfans1and2
Banned User
Posts: 16,045
And1: 189
Joined: Jun 28, 2008
Top

Post#319 Re: 2013 Off Season Thread - TT Interview Pg
Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:55 pm by Ayt

If we lose Finley we have nothing at TE. The drop in production from that spot would be dramatic in the passing game, and we'd lose the ability to move our TE around as much as we do with Finley to **** with the defensive alignment and personnel.

I think we ultimately bring him back somehow.
Ayt
RealGM
User avatar
Posts: 44,864
And1: 1,937
Joined: Jun 27, 2005
Top

Post#320 Re: 2013 Off Season Thread - TT Interview Pg
Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:46 pm by zmanishere11

Cullen Jenkins realeased today........
zmanishere11
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,347
And1: 53
Joined: May 19, 2002
Location: Appleton, WI
Top

PreviousNext

Return to Green Bay Packers


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users