Junior Seau dead at 43

[Kerb Hohl]

I think my image on this board is being severly misunderstood lately.

In regard to the Skiles discussions and this, I don't blame everyone for not reading every post of the thread, but I'm in support of protection of these guys.

I was just saying that cancelling football like humanrefutation said was going over the top and that I personally thought boxing was worse with a bad guesstimate.

[WRau1]

If Seau could think clearly enough to save his brain for research, he should've been thinking clearly enough not to take his own life. I have no sympathy for anyone that takes their own life, none. Unless of course, they have a serious mental illness.

[ReasonablySober]

If Seau could think clearly enough to save his brain for research, he should've been thinking clearly enough not to take his own life. I have no sympathy for anyone that takes their own life, none. Unless of course, they have a serious mental illness.

Seems reasonable to assume he had a serious mental illness if he chose to take his own life.

[WRau1]

If Seau could think clearly enough to save his brain for research, he should've been thinking clearly enough not to take his own life. I have no sympathy for anyone that takes their own life, none. Unless of course, they have a serious mental illness.

Seems reasonable to assume he had a serious mental illness if he chose to take his own life.

Why?

[emunney]

Because self-preservation is the foremost evolutionary imperative. As a general guideline, healthy people don't kill themselves.

[Aaron It Out]

Because self-preservation is the foremost evolutionary imperative. As a general guideline, healthy people don't kill themselves.

This. Not only do you have to have something severely wrong to want to do it, but you have to be on another level to actually execute the plan. He was obviously not right so to say no sympathy is kind of weird. Along with all the other people who commit suicide every day because they have something seriously wrong with them.

[Marley2Hendrix]

Because self-preservation is the foremost evolutionary imperative. As a general guideline, healthy people don't kill themselves.

This. Not only do you have to have something severely wrong to want to do it, but you have to be on another level to actually execute the plan. He was obviously not right so to say no sympathy is kind of weird. Along with all the other people who commit suicide every day because they have something seriously wrong with them.

2nd'd both posts.

[Marley2Hendrix]

http://www.kurtwarner.org/blog/?p=36

[th87]

If Seau could think clearly enough to save his brain for research, he should've been thinking clearly enough not to take his own life. I have no sympathy for anyone that takes their own life, none. Unless of course, they have a serious mental illness.

It's laughable to think you have any clue about someone else's pain so as to judge his actions.

[MikeIsGood]

If Seau could think clearly enough to save his brain for research, he should've been thinking clearly enough not to take his own life. I have no sympathy for anyone that takes their own life, none. Unless of course, they have a serious mental illness.

It's laughable to think you have any clue about someone else's pain so as to judge his actions.

Seriously. Good lord.

[El Duderino]

Dorsey Levens was on Green and Gold Today about a week ago talking about concussions, it was a good listen. Just scroll down on the list.

http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=71&c=583&f=523741

[humanrefutation]

Anyone watch OTL today? They were talking about whether youth football is safe, and they had Scott Hallenbeck (Executive Director of USA Football), Merril Hoge (who's also on the board of USA Football), Matt Chaney (Author) and Osi Umenyiora. Chaney took Hoge and Hallenbeck to task on the ability to protect youth from concussion issues, and Hoge reacted like a major dick. But, I guess that was to be expected. If you have a chance to see it, I'd recommend it.

[Ayt]

If Seau could think clearly enough to save his brain for research, he should've been thinking clearly enough not to take his own life. I have no sympathy for anyone that takes their own life, none. Unless of course, they have a serious mental illness.

Can you imagine yourself being in a mindset where you think shooting yourself in the chest with a shotgun is something you feel so strongly about that you actually go through with it despite the numerous, and extremely weighty, reasons a person would not to do such a thing? Try to imagine what his state of mind must have been when he pulled the trigger. Imagine his state of mind in the days, weeks, months, and years leading up to that point. People don't just wake up one day and decide to do this. Also, realize that the people around him did not think he was going to do something like this, so also consider the fact that he wasn't outwardly crazy or even at risk for something like this to the point that others would notice. Think about the process that led him to the end point and how awful it would need to be for you to even be able to offhandedly consider what he did. Then try to somehow imagine what things were like for him in those last few days and weeks when he ultimately had decided he was going to go through with it.

My guess would be that he had decided a few months before he actually went through with this that he was ultimately going to get to this point, and he spent the last few months of his life both spending time with friends and family while also working up the strength to go through with his plan. That decision probably brought him peace, and the last few months of his life may have been the best he'd had in years because a huge weight had been lifted. He finally saw a light at the end of the tunnel, even if it was a light most would see as incomprehensible. His friends and loved ones may have even thought he was seemingly happy in the previous few months (something extremely common in the case of suicides).

In my mind there is nothing shameful about a suicide. All I see is a realization of how much mental anguish humans are able to achieve. I see enormous pain and sadness. Birds don't intentionally dive bomb into the earth. Animals don't intentionally jump off cliffs. Yet thousands of humans every year are in such extraordinary pain (which generally isn't obvious to those around them) that they decide to end their existence despite the fact that we are self-aware enough to have a strong fear of death beyond the mere instinct to survive. Frankly, it takes an enormous amount of willpower to go through with something like this given that we not only have a remarkably strong instinct for self-preservation, we also have the ability to think about the end of our existence on a level other animals cannot approach.

Suicide is simply very sad. It is one of the sadder (and most philosophical) facts about humanity I think one can face. It is absolutely not deserving of scorn. If you think it is, you need to do some serious selfreflection. Other humans are choosing oblivion (and the complete unknown) over existence and the best you can do is think about whether you sympathize? It is telling that you needed to post about yourself and how much you care (or don't care), while, very likely, also thinking of suicide as an extraordinarily selfish act.

Put a shotgun to your chest and really try to fully imagine all the different emotions you'd need to feel, all the goodbye's you'd need to say, all the fears you'd need to overcome (plus all the numerous other thoughts a person would have right before pulling the trigger). Imagine all the different things that would need to happen for you to ever get to that point and then realize that there are people out there that pull the trigger. Pulling the trigger in that situation is beyond your imagination. It is best to just admit that fact rather than speak ill of those that do so.

[Bernman]

Last night I caught the final part of Sportscenter's series on CTE prevalence in football. It was heartbreaking. I really don't know if I can watch this stuff any longer. I seriously questioned my continued interest in the sport last off season when I first read the CTE studies, but I stuck with it given the findings were from mostly biased samples and not receiving visuals of the depths of it. It's becoming even clearer this offseason how common and devastating the problem is. I never was one who was part of the delusion that concussions didn't catch up with players just because they recovered at the time, but never perceived the damage that was incurred could be this serious. Something major has to change before the knowledge of this problem makes it a sadistic or at least sociopathic activity to watch the sport. I'm talking about stricter PED testing, an alteration in the helmet so it can't be used as a weapon (rugby players don't suffer this much), and flat out barring kids under 18 from competing in tackle football. The last suggestion would almost surely kill college football and water down pros immensely, but to that I say tough titties. The brain is still developing even beyond 18 and most younger than that age haven't had the experiences to make huge life decisions which can irrevocably change them. And it shouldn't be incumbent upon parents to decide because they can be irresponsible themselves. They already have too much bearing on their kids life in a psychological capacity. But that can theoretically be overcome. A degenerative neurological condition, or going down that path already, cannot.

[Kerb Hohl]

Again, I'm pretty pro-protection and am in support of a lot of this stuff. Not allowing kids under 18 to participate? That may have to come with some research. I was hit by probably 2 NFL caliber players and a handful of college players.

You'll probably all have a good laugh given my recent musings on the Bucks board and say that I'm delusional, but in all reality, I think most HS kids don't have this issue. Let me re-phrase that. Most kids that don't play past HS probably see this on a MUCH smaller scale. There aren't many 6'4, 270 lb linebackers looming. I realize that a kid's head may not be as prepared at those ages either, but I think the NFL issues majorly stem from 15 years of an incredible pounding once you get into the upper college level.

It can happen from just one season as well when you're a freshman in HS and I totally get that...but I think a lot of the NFL guys getting messed up are from 10 years of getting hit by Bart Scott.

I'm not saying there aren't issues in the younger crowd that need to be addressed -- there are -- and maybe studies will say that it's enough to ban it for kids. But myself and 25 other kids in my grade had their life and fitness positively enriched by this sport. That's just my grade at one school. There are probably no doubt negative effects on some percentage of kids growing up that get concussions, even unknown ones to people like myself who played for 8-9 years against lesser-intensity competition, but with all of the benefit the sport played, that has to be factored in.

Wacky wild card: Don't take this as any sort of argument for or against protection, just a random thought. The type of person in the NFL normally has an odd mental makeup as it is to get to that level. You have to have unbelievable mental makeup and focus to the point of being weirdly obsessed with bettering yourself and being competitive. Tons of money clouds the high-profile guys as well. Look at Tom Cruise/Mel Gibson/etc. Altered sense of reality. Owen Wilson "had it all" and was suicidal. Money, drugs, partying can mess up your reality when it's all over.

Just a totally random thought there and this only really pertains to the high-ranking NFL guys that we have seen do this stuff on the news, but a random thought that came into my mind. Again, not to diminish the argument at all and Seau seemed like a pretty level-headed guy, but something interesting to think about for a small portion of the upper-ranking sample that seems messed up by this. Not diminishing it.

[humanrefutation]

Grendon, the problem is with younger kids that they're not trained or experienced enough in proper tackling techniques, and are more likely to lead with the head because they're not prepared for the consequences. Combining that with the fact that their brains are not developed, could be more susceptible to long term consequences, and are too young to really understand the ramifications of their decision (by any legal standard, to be sure), and there is a compelling case to be made that it should be banned. It's not obvious, nor overwhelming, but it's something I think is reasonable to consider.

[WRau1]

If Seau could think clearly enough to save his brain for research, he should've been thinking clearly enough not to take his own life. I have no sympathy for anyone that takes their own life, none. Unless of course, they have a serious mental illness.

Can you imagine yourself being in a mindset where you think shooting yourself in the chest with a shotgun is something you feel so strongly about that you actually go through with it despite the numerous, and extremely weighty, reasons a person would not to do such a thing? Try to imagine what his state of mind must have been when he pulled the trigger. Imagine his state of mind in the days, weeks, months, and years leading up to that point. People don't just wake up one day and decide to do this. Also, realize that the people around him did not think he was going to do something like this, so also consider the fact that he wasn't outwardly crazy or even at risk for something like this to the point that others would notice. Think about the process that led him to the end point and how awful it would need to be for you to even be able to offhandedly consider what he did. Then try to somehow imagine what things were like for him in those last few days and weeks when he ultimately had decided he was going to go through with it.

My guess would be that he had decided a few months before he actually went through with this that he was ultimately going to get to this point, and he spent the last few months of his life both spending time with friends and family while also working up the strength to go through with his plan. That decision probably brought him peace, and the last few months of his life may have been the best he'd had in years because a huge weight had been lifted. He finally saw a light at the end of the tunnel, even if it was a light most would see as incomprehensible. His friends and loved ones may have even thought he was seemingly happy in the previous few months (something extremely common in the case of suicides).

In my mind there is nothing shameful about a suicide. All I see is a realization of how much mental anguish humans are able to achieve. I see enormous pain and sadness. Birds don't intentionally dive bomb into the earth. Animals don't intentionally jump off cliffs. Yet thousands of humans every year are in such extraordinary pain (which generally isn't obvious to those around them) that they decide to end their existence despite the fact that we are self-aware enough to have a strong fear of death beyond the mere instinct to survive. Frankly, it takes an enormous amount of willpower to go through with something like this given that we not only have a remarkably strong instinct for self-preservation, we also have the ability to think about the end of our existence on a level other animals cannot approach.

Suicide is simply very sad. It is one of the sadder (and most philosophical) facts about humanity I think one can face. It is absolutely not deserving of scorn. If you think it is, you need to do some serious selfreflection. Other humans are choosing oblivion (and the complete unknown) over existence and the best you can do is think about whether you sympathize? It is telling that you needed to post about yourself and how much you care (or don't care), while, very likely, also thinking of suicide as an extraordinarily selfish act.

Put a shotgun to your chest and really try to fully imagine all the different emotions you'd need to feel, all the goodbye's you'd need to say, all the fears you'd need to overcome (plus all the numerous other thoughts a person would have right before pulling the trigger). Imagine all the different things that would need to happen for you to ever get to that point and then realize that there are people out there that pull the trigger. Pulling the trigger in that situation is beyond your imagination. It is best to just admit that fact rather than speak ill of those that do so.

Aww, how touching. Let's glorify the choice to kill yourself, especially when the guy had young children to take care of. Why don't you go take this speech over to Seau's children or the kids at his foundation.

[humanrefutation]

Aww, how touching. Let's glorify the choice to kill yourself, especially when the guy had young children to take care of. Why don't you go take this speech over to Seau's children or the kids at his foundation.

You really are a buffoon if you think Ayt was glorifying suicide at all in that post.

[Kerb Hohl]

Grendon, the problem is with younger kids that they're not trained or experienced enough in proper tackling techniques, and are more likely to lead with the head because they're not prepared for the consequences. Combining that with the fact that their brains are not developed, could be more susceptible to long term consequences, and are too young to really understand the ramifications of their decision (by any legal standard, to be sure), and there is a compelling case to be made that it should be banned. It's not obvious, nor overwhelming, but it's something I think is reasonable to consider.

I dunno, I think we were much better trained than some of the NFL guys.

What I'm saying is -- we were taught from the first practice of 5th grade football how to tackle. Now, obviously young kids aren't as experienced in it and also don't always follow that direction, but I don't remember too much of using helmets as weapons.

In the NFL, these guys are trained to kill. They neglect a lot of the training they had growing up. Plenty of good form-tackling, but even with all of the new rules which have induced some change, there have been some incredible cases of spearing.

[crkone]

Get rid of helmets on the defense to get rid of leading with the head. Only give helmets to the offense. Maybe just leather helmets for the defense too.