2013 Off Season Thread - Working On Ext For Burnett - Pg 129

[eagle13]

In the sense of, we can only spend 122 million dollars this year. That's exactly how you have to look at it. I don't see any scenario where it's an efficient use of resources to cut Hawk.

I believe you even though you are a strong Hawk lover & vigorously argues in his defense at all times

[trwi7]

I did enjoy this tweet from NFL Memes about Joe Flacco and his contract demands.

[Bucksfans1and2]

In the sense of, we can only spend 122 million dollars this year. That's exactly how you have to look at it. I don't see any scenario where it's an efficient use of resources to cut Hawk.

I believe you even though you are a strong Hawk lover & vigorously argues in his defense at all times

Difference in perspective is making me laugh.

I don't love AJ Hawk. I'd like nothing more than to get a stud at that SILB spot. I just think that there's a disproportionate amount of hate for Hawk.

I think if you were assigning letter grades Hawk would come out as a C+. Everybody else seems to think he's an F though.

I'm a TJ Lang lover, I'm not an AJ Hawk lover

[MickeyDavis]

Silverstein:

At some point over the course of the past year, the Packers gave WR Greg Jennings a number they thought would hold up should he make it to the free agent market.

Jennings thought he could do better and decided to play his hand.

With free agency just under three weeks away, the two will soon find out who was right. Either Jennings will find that teams still value him as a go-to receiver or that his age and injury history have knocked him down a couple pegs.

The Packers will be watching closely because while they haven't been willing to offer more than a modest deal to Jennings, they very well could find themselves in the same position they were in with James Jones two years ago. If Jennings doesn't get a great offer, he might consider coming back to a place where he can play with a franchise quarterback and compete for a Super Bowl.

But here's the problem.

Not everyone can do what Jones did. That is, swallow your pride after falling flat in free agency and returning to the team that seemingly didn't care enough about you to offer a great contract.

You have to really respect what Jones did, which is sign a modest three-year deal and come back as though nothing had changed. If anything, he worked harder than ever to prove he was a No. 1 or No. 2 receiver.

In 2011, he caught just 38 passes and played third fiddle to Jennings, Jordy Nelson and Jermichael Finley, but he didn't pout and came back last year and with Jennings hurt caught a career-high 64 passes, including a league-leading 14 touchdowns. One more year like that and he'll have a chance to strike it big on the free agent market next spring.

So, if the market falls out on Jennings, who as SI's Peter King points out, faces obstacles in the form of a flat salary cap and a market flooded with quality free agents, the Packers might be willing to take him back. But Jennings would have to be wiling to swallow his pride the way Jones did and that would be a lot harder for a guy who has been a No. 1 and has been out selling himself hard on ESPN and NFL Network since the season ended.

It only takes one team to blow a hole in the ceiling, so it's still possible Jennings will get a good deal. Sometimes you have to be in the right place at the right time (see Vincent Jackson, Tampa Bay). Sometimes it only takes one team to escalate the price, sometimes bidding against another team, sometimes bidding against itself.

But Jennings joins a free agent receiver group that includes unrestricted free agents Mike Wallace of Pittsburgh, Dwyane Bowe of Kansas City and Wes Welker of New England. Welker will be 32, Jennings 30, Bowe 29 and Wallace 27 before the first month of the regular season is over.

Last year, Jackson pulled in $26 million guaranteed on a five-year, $55.5 million deal. It's unlikely any of the four will come close to that.

A year ago, many people thought that Packers QB Matt Flynn was a lock to sign a big contract with Miami and become their starter. It didn't happen and Flynn wound up with a modest deal in Seattle, where he sat behind rookie sensation Russell Wilson.

Once again, many people are assuming Miami will jump all over a Packers free agent just because of the connection with coach Joe Philbin. It is not a sure thing that Jennings will be taking his act to South Beach. It's not even clear that Philbin is interested.

Jennings' agent will be able to do a little bit of reconnaissance at the scouting combine this week to feel out who might be interested. If he doesn't find what he's looking for, maybe Jennings will consider returning. But for him to come back he would have to find the kind of forgiveness Jones did when he re-signed.

That's a big if.

[eagle13]

If he stays that's one less hole to fill. IF GJ & Fin both go we're stuck plugging the holes they leave - probably use 1st on TE and 2nd or 3rd on WR - and we don't get to address othe areas and there's NO NET UPGRADE. If they both stay we can use 1st & 2nd picks to upgrade DL, S, ILB. At least if only GJ goes we won't HAVE to invest more than a 3rd. IF Finley goes its pretty likely that's our 1st.

[trwi7]

Love James Jones.

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/192261311.html

Couldn't agree more with him. A lot of helmet-to-helmet contact is inevitable and I think most offensive players understand that. Should not punish (and fine) defensive players for having almost no time to react to the moving target they're hitting.

[Bucksfans1and2]

If he stays that's one less hole to fill. IF GJ & Fin both go we're stuck plugging the holes they leave - probably use 1st on TE and 2nd or 3rd on WR - and we don't get to address othe areas and there's NO NET UPGRADE. If they both stay we can use 1st & 2nd picks to upgrade DL, S, ILB. At least if only GJ goes we won't HAVE to invest more than a 3rd. IF Finley goes its pretty likely that's our 1st.

I don't get the idea of NEEDING another WR even if Jennings goes. Yeah, it's nice to have a 4th WR, but we've already got 3 good ones, 4 if you include Finley. That's more than anybody else in the league.

[Newz]

Even if we lose Jennings and Finley... how many teams have better receiving cores than Nelson, Jones and Cobb?

[MickeyDavis]

Agreed that we are ok if Jennings leaves and our top 3 are great. But Nelson missed 4 games and a significan injury to one of these guys would be a big blow. Plus Jones is a free agent again after this season. If we let Jennings walk we will no doubt draft a WR and given TT's track record it will likely be a good pick. But you never know.

[PkrsBcksGphsMqt]

We should offer JJ an extension before he puts up big numbers this year.

[chuckleslove]

We should offer JJ an extension before he puts up big numbers this year.

Or just cut him or trade him for a 4th or something.

[Kerb Hohl]

I believe some people on this board were proposing/would have been happy with a conditional 2019 12th round pick.

[MickeyDavis]

WWHD (What Would Hammond Do)

[eagle13]

If he stays that's one less hole to fill. IF GJ & Fin both go we're stuck plugging the holes they leave - probably use 1st on TE and 2nd or 3rd on WR - and we don't get to address othe areas and there's NO NET UPGRADE. If they both stay we can use 1st & 2nd picks to upgrade DL, S, ILB. At least if only GJ goes we won't HAVE to invest more than a 3rd. IF Finley goes its pretty likely that's our 1st.

I don't get the idea of NEEDING another WR even if Jennings goes. Yeah, it's nice to have a 4th WR, but we've already got 3 good ones, 4 if you include Finley. That's more than anybody else in the league.

For the reasons
1 b/c Pack live & die by its passing game,
2 b/c Pack frequently playing 4 & 5 receiver sets,
3 b/c of frequent game missing injuries - ( 2 serious this season Greg & Jordy)
4 b/c to prepare in case JJs FA next off season,
5 b/c its a deep WR class where we can get OK WR in 3rd rd that in other drafts need a 2nd rd to get
6 b/c Boykin looking good - could just as well flounder as previous flash in the pans Borel & Gurley did
7 b/c Wolf regrets not giving Brett enough weapons
8 b/c we’ve got the best QB in the game
9 did I say injuries

[Bucksfans1and2]

If he stays that's one less hole to fill. IF GJ & Fin both go we're stuck plugging the holes they leave - probably use 1st on TE and 2nd or 3rd on WR - and we don't get to address othe areas and there's NO NET UPGRADE. If they both stay we can use 1st & 2nd picks to upgrade DL, S, ILB. At least if only GJ goes we won't HAVE to invest more than a 3rd. IF Finley goes its pretty likely that's our 1st.

I don't get the idea of NEEDING another WR even if Jennings goes. Yeah, it's nice to have a 4th WR, but we've already got 3 good ones, 4 if you include Finley. That's more than anybody else in the league.

For the reasons
1 b/c Pack live & die by its passing game,
2 b/c Pack frequently playing 4 & 5 receiver sets,
3 b/c of frequent game missing injuries - ( 2 serious this season Greg & Jordy)
4 b/c to prepare in case JJs FA next off season,
5 b/c its a deep WR class where we can get OK WR in 3rd rd that in other drafts need a 2nd rd to get
6 b/c Boykin looking good - could just as well flounder as previous flash in the pans Borel & Gurley did
7 b/c Wolf regrets not giving Brett enough weapons
8 b/c we’ve got the best QB in the game
9 did I say injuries

1. True, that doesn't mean we need to draft another WR early.

2. False. Our most common personnel grouping by a huge margain was an 11. Then a 21, then a 12, We ran with more than 3 WRs on something like 10% of our plays. Whatever it was, it certainly wasn't "frequently".

3. Injuries are a legitimate concern but you have to weigh the risk/reward of spending a high pick on a guy who might not see the field much/ if at all this year.

4. Fair enough, at the same time he might be brought back and then we'd once again have a shortage of snaps.
5. It's a deep WR class through out. Why are we reaching in the 2nd/3rd when we can let a guy fall to us? Only so many teams want a WR and taht drives them down the board.

6. I don't even consider Boykin a member of the team right now. He's a camp body and that's it, maybe he's got the edge and should be considered a cap body + but that's it. Nobody is relying on Boykin.

7. Good for Wolf. Even without Jennings, this Packer team is far from short of weapons.

8. We do have the best QB in the game. One of the advantages of that is we don't have to spend resources on WR. He makes them look better than they are.

9. Yes, you did.

++++++++++++++++++++++

Could say we don't have depths at a ton of positions though. WR isn't something special. Hell, we don't even have a starter at FS.

[eagle13]

If he stays that's one less hole to fill. IF GJ & Fin both go we're stuck plugging the holes they leave - probably use 1st on TE and 2nd or 3rd on WR - and we don't get to address othe areas and there's NO NET UPGRADE. If they both stay we can use 1st & 2nd picks to upgrade DL, S, ILB. At least if only GJ goes we won't HAVE to invest more than a 3rd. IF Finley goes its pretty likely that's our 1st.

Could say we don't have depths at a ton of positions though. WR isn't something special. Hell, we don't even have a starter at FS.

Most personnel men rate WR as 2nd most important position on offense & more important position than S.
Excuse me - that's the whole point of my first post - we need a S among others.

[Newz]

I think the whole 'we rely on the passing game' thing is something that TT knows, MM knows, the fan base knows, Rodgers knows, etc. I believe that is really something that they want to change. From what I read at the start of the offseason and up until now it seems like the Packers want to improve their run game. I think Thompson will go out into free agency and get a back or draft one earlier. I also think he's going to take offensive lineman who are known more for their ability to open holes for backs than to protect the passer.

I think last year after teams just rushed 3 or 4 guys and dropped others back into coverage to take away the big play they realize they need to be able to punish them for that.

I'm not sure TT views the problems on defense to be as big of an issue as most fans do. Maybe he shouldn't either. If you really look at it:

DL: Daniels and Worthy will have another year under their belt. Raji could bounce back big time in a contract year and some of the other guys still have room to grow as players (Neal, Wilson).
OLB: I actually thought Perry did a very good job getting pressure on the QB last year, hopefully he can come back improved. Clay is a stud... this is the one position where we just lack any sort of depth though. Obviously a concern.
ILB: Bishop will be back, Smiff will be back, Manning (who seems like a pretty good prospect) will be back and a year older.
CB: Even if Tramon is poop, you have House getting another year of experience, Hayward coming off of a dominant rookie season and Shields continuing to grow as a player.
S: Pretty much the whole safety position is young and learning. We have a few guys there who could turn into players.

So with a defense as young as ours and that was as hampered with injuries as ours was we might just need time as opposed to investing a ton of resources. I think the one spot we could really, really use an upgrade/depth at is OLB though.

[eagle13]

I think the whole 'we rely on the passing game' thing is something that TT knows, MM knows, the fan base knows, Rodgers knows, etc. I believe that is really something that they want to change. From what I read at the start of the offseason and up until now it seems like the Packers want to improve their run game. I think Thompson will go out into free agency and get a back or draft one earlier. I also think he's going to take offensive lineman who are known more for their ability to open holes for backs than to protect the passer.

I think last year after teams just rushed 3 or 4 guys and dropped others back into coverage to take away the big play they realize they need to be able to punish them for that.

I'm not sure TT views the problems on defense to be as big of an issue as most fans do. Maybe he shouldn't either. If you really look at it:

DL: Daniels and Worthy will have another year under their belt. Raji could bounce back big time in a contract year and some of the other guys still have room to grow as players (Neal, Wilson).
OLB: I actually thought Perry did a very good job getting pressure on the QB last year, hopefully he can come back improved. Clay is a stud... this is the one position where we just lack any sort of depth though. Obviously a concern.
ILB: Bishop will be back, Smiff will be back, Manning (who seems like a pretty good prospect) will be back and a year older.
CB: Even if Tramon is poop, you have House getting another year of experience, Hayward coming off of a dominant rookie season and Shields continuing to grow as a player.
S: Pretty much the whole safety position is young and learning. We have a few guys there who could turn into players.

So with a defense as young as ours and that was as hampered with injuries as ours was we might just need time as opposed to investing a ton of resources. I think the one spot we could really, really use an upgrade/depth at is OLB though.

Good post.
The shift in offensive philosophy will only affect draft if/when we take an OT and maybe an interior guy late. I don't think we're gonna take a RB any earlier than 4th. And we'll still honor the passing game's importance by taking a WR 2nd/3rd if GJ leaves.

I pretty much agree with your take on D. However I don't expect Woorthy back until mid-season and I think he isn't much of a player anyway. Daniels is better. IF Daniels & Neal progress as inside pass rushers that will help pass rush big time. Still think we need help at DE as Daniels is too short and Neal has shown little ability setting the edge against the run.

At ILB IF Bishop & Smith return 100% annd Jones returns and improves - we're OK there.

At OLB -I'm both optimistic & hesitant about Perry. Moses is a good backup. IF a stud OLB drops to us I'd grab him otherwise draft for depth 4th or lower and roll with Nick.

At S I like Burnett & feel he'll have a breakout year. We need better play from other spot. Do we draft one 1st or 2nd or do we roll with McMillian? I waffle here. I guess if a stud S is BPA at our slot I do it. However like OLB Perry I am optimistic but cautious about McMillian. IIf we don't draft one early I don't see taking one at all as Richardson & Jennings are OK reserves.

At CB Hayward is nickel and Shields has one outside spot. That leaves Tramon & House. Tramon is pretty solid in coverage but sucks tackling. House has looked good but has gotten burned and hasn't stayed healthy. We could really use another development guy drafted 4th or 5th.

IF GJ leaves
1st-BPA of DE, OT, OLB, S
2nd- BPA of DE, OT, OLB, S
3rd-WR
4th-CB
4th- DE OLB OT if not taken 1or2
5th-RB
6th-C/G
7th- DE OLB if not taken 1or2or4 or else ILB

Bottom line we're in pretty good shape on both sides of the ball if bulaga bishop smith perry return from their injuries 100%. Not counting on sherrod or worthy. If Finley stays we're really not in dire need at any position. Perry McMillian Neal Daniels & Newhouse and maybe Green Starks & Datko are the guys to watch for improvement.

[Reddeye]

@TomPelissero

Lot of opinions here about what top receiver UFAs may command. Heard Greg Jennings wants $14M/year. Tough to see that happening.

Good luck getting that Greg.

[Bucksfans1and2]

If he stays that's one less hole to fill. IF GJ & Fin both go we're stuck plugging the holes they leave - probably use 1st on TE and 2nd or 3rd on WR - and we don't get to address othe areas and there's NO NET UPGRADE. If they both stay we can use 1st & 2nd picks to upgrade DL, S, ILB. At least if only GJ goes we won't HAVE to invest more than a 3rd. IF Finley goes its pretty likely that's our 1st.

Could say we don't have depths at a ton of positions though. WR isn't something special. Hell, we don't even have a starter at FS.

Most personnel men rate WR as 2nd most important position on offense & more important position than S.
Excuse me - that's the whole point of my first post - we need a S among others.

1. WR is more import than LT??

2. We don't need 4 good WRs. That is so obviously a luxury it's not even funny.