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Super Bowl Lead Up: 1/30 POLL ADDED

Moderators: MickeyDavis, paulpressey25, humanrefutation

Who Do You THINK Will Win?

Denver
17
57%
Seattle
13
43%
 
Total votes: 30

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Re: Super Bowl Lead Up 

Post#101 » by Newz » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:21 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:The whole thing is that if a white guy did what Sherman did, he'd never be called a thug. You keep trying to pick up rocks and find equal comparisons but you can't. Birdman and Marshall Henderson were about as close as it got but they weren't near the flashpoint Sherman was.

Of course you're never going to agree with me but it's there. It's subconscious for a lot of people. I also think maybe saying it's a euphemism for "N word" may be harsh, more like "threatening counterculture."


I honestly think that if a white guy did what Sherman did that the reaction would be very similar. But that's just my opinion.
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Re: Super Bowl Lead Up 

Post#102 » by Newz » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:39 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:
Newz wrote:I think a lot of people associate violence with football. A lot of guys who play the sport have done a lot of crazy things off of the field as well. So when they see a guy taunting, giving the choke sign and then screaming at the camera in a somewhat threatening way... I am guessing they associated him with a lot of other guys in the NFL who have got into trouble.


This is a meaningful quote. Replace the words "football" and "NFL" with "guys like Richard Sherman" and I think you've defined the point. The league is predominantly one color and this was kinda th87's point. Seems like the NFL and NBA seem to get this argument but the other leagues don't.


I'll respond to this and then I'll let it be as I agree it is getting more than a little off topic.

I think other leagues have things attached to them as well. Baseball has the steroid thing attached to it. Sports like UFC and Boxing have violence attached to a lot of their stars as well. While the NFL isn't a 'fighting' sport, it is certainly a sport that people associate violence with... to the point where people like the President are coming out and saying they wouldn't let their kids play. I can't speak for hockey as I think I have watched two hockey games in my life and there was no fighting in them.

I don't think it applies to a lot of QBs or offensive players as much in peoples minds because they are the 'victims' of said violence... where as defensive players are associated more with it because they are the ones dishing out punishing hits, who are being fined for head to head shots, etc.

I think all of that plays into it. I think the 'thug' thing is linked more to other guys in the sport being violent and the sport itself being violent than it is to him being black.

That probably isn't the case with every person. There are obviously racist people and obviously they are going to say racist things. But for the most part I believe it is tied more to what has happened on the field and the history of other players than it is to the color of his skin.
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Re: Super Bowl Lead Up 

Post#103 » by humanrefutation » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:54 pm

I missed out on this discussion, but I get particularly offended when people complain about "made up racism." Just because you have never experienced that, or your perspective wasn't meant to be racist, doesn't mean that the experience is "made up."

Let me explain this more thoroughly. There are two elements here at play when you're facing a situation similar to Richard Sherman's:

1. Intent Versus Impact

My intention in doing or saying something doesn't necessarily mean that the impact is going to fall in line with that intent. For example, some of you like to use the term "ret*rded." Most people don't use that term to purposefully hate on individuals with mental illness. But, it always makes me cringe, because I have a personal connection to people with mental disabilities who have to face challenges every single day, so I am always hurt when someone throws a word around like that. Thus, the intent is not in line with the impact.

So, when someone calls Richard Sherman a "thug," the person who is saying it might not be using it in a racially oriented way, but he clearly felt that it was a coded way of being racist. I don't blame him for feeling that way, because like it or not, there ARE people who use "thug" as a PC way of calling a person of color a racial epithet. If you don't feel you're using it with that intention, then you should be aware that the impact of that is going to make you sound like a racist. If you're Richard Sherman, you should be aware that not everyone who uses that term means it in a racist way, but this is what complicates that...

2. Plausible Deniability

One of the insidious aspects of privilege in this country is the plausible deniability that any person can claim when they say something that could be perceived as racist. Because I can't read thoughts, I can't necessarily prove that someone's words/actions are necessarily coded with racist intent.

Example: Since 9/11, I've noticed that when I go to the airport, more often then not, I'm "randomly selected" by the TSA for additional screening. Why is that? Is it because I have a Middle Eastern name and appearance? Is it racial profiling? Or is it truly random? I can't know that. But what I do know is how it makes me feel, and it makes me feel like I'm being treated like a second class of citizen because of my ethnicity/religion. But the **** up part is...I can't prove that every time I go to the airport. So, I'm stuck feeling like **** and not being able to do anything about it.

Lastly...

Most racism these days isn't the same as it was even twenty years ago. It's not as easily identifiable as segregated fountains, dogs and water hoses, lynch mobs, and shouting racial epithets. While some of those things can still happen, it's much more difficult to identify these days. In some ways, that's a very good thing. Yet, the discussion of the more subtle forms of bigotry - institutional racism, coded language, etc, is far too often criticized as "pulling the race card" or "made up racism." That actually makes it really, really difficult to have these sorts of discussions and actually identify the system and insidious forms of racism that still exist. But, simply put, unless you've walked a mile in the shoes of a person of underprivilege, you can't know what it's like to deal with it on a daily basis. And until you're willing to open your mind and have these discussions with the hope of trying to learn what the other side is seeing, experiencing, feeling, and thinking, you're not going to make anything better.

So, yes, I do agree with Richard Sherman that the term "thug" can be used as a coded way to call someone the n-word. I know that's true because I've seen it in many different contexts. If you don't feel that's true, then I don't know what to tell you, but please don't accuse me of "making it up." Just because you didn't experience it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
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Re: Super Bowl Lead Up 

Post#104 » by zmanishere11 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:47 pm

All I know is I love black people, specifically randy cobb!
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Re: Super Bowl Lead Up 

Post#105 » by Newz » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:13 pm

humanrefutation, I think you make some good points and I would enjoy continuing on with the conversation. But on a football board and in a thread about the Super Bowl I think the subject has run its course and I don't want to be the guy who keeps dragging it on. I feel kind of bad for discussing it as much as I have. I think that the Richard Sherman thing was way overblown from a media standpoint and a fan reaction standpoint. I feel like an idiot for getting sucked into it as much as I have in this thread.

That being said... I think the Seahawks are the favorite here and I put down $100 on them. Anyone else putting any money on the game?
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Re: Super Bowl Lead Up 

Post#106 » by Lippo » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:53 pm

I am sure most educated fans know Sherman is not a street thug , he went to Stanford.. got a 3.9, will probably end up leading the player union one day. He did however act like a thug postgame, taunting, cursing, aggresive behavior, which iMO is part of football. The english definition of thug is assassin or thief, 2 words that Sherman would probably approve to describe his sacred LOB, steal passes, kill receivers. It wasn't until Iverson and his Thug Life, that the word was even associated with black youth and gangs. A word gets used in a rap song and now all the non blacks have to remove it from their dictionary or become racists. I myself.. the 1st thing that comes to mind with the word thug is a buddy of mine that raged over anything, he had MMA background and used to stomp people into the ground for no reason, think hes still in jail for collapsing a police officers knee.
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Re: Super Bowl Lead Up 

Post#107 » by humanrefutation » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:01 pm

Newz wrote:humanrefutation, I think you make some good points and I would enjoy continuing on with the conversation. But on a football board and in a thread about the Super Bowl I think the subject has run its course and I don't want to be the guy who keeps dragging it on. I feel kind of bad for discussing it as much as I have. I think that the Richard Sherman thing was way overblown from a media standpoint and a fan reaction standpoint. I feel like an idiot for getting sucked into it as much as I have in this thread.

That being said... I think the Seahawks are the favorite here and I put down $100 on them. Anyone else putting any money on the game?


That's fine. I just wanted to share my perspective as well.

I heard that Money Mayweather put $10 million on the Broncos. It would be nice to have "**** you" money like that.
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Re: Super Bowl Lead Up 

Post#108 » by Newz » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:07 pm

humanrefutation wrote:That's fine. I just wanted to share my perspective as well.


For sure. :)

I heard that Money Mayweather put $10 million on the Broncos. It would be nice to have "**** you" money like that.


I read that as well and heard that it was most likely a lie. I think sometimes he places insane bets like that, then pulls them back and ends up betting some other ridiculous amount that is just... less ridiculous? I think he was rumored to put $6 million on a Heat game at some point and it ended up only being like $900,000. Still absurd though.

That's what happens when you are the highest paid athlete on the planet though. I still can't believe Mayweather doesn't cash in on advertising opportunities. He makes about $100 million a year just fighting twice... he could probably make $120-$150 million if he hopped on the advertisement train, maybe more.
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Re: Super Bowl Lead Up 

Post#109 » by PkrsBcksGphsMqt » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:47 pm

Who is everyone cheering for? Maybe MD can add a poll to this thread.

As many of you know I'm cheering for the Broncos, but I really just hope the game comes down to the last series or two.
BucksRuleAll22 wrote:Calvin Johnson is horrible and not a top WR.
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Re: Super Bowl Lead Up 

Post#110 » by Newz » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:48 pm

I am cheering for the Seahawks now that I put some money on them.

Without that? I would be hoping that there was a way both teams could lose. :P
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Re: Super Bowl Lead Up 

Post#111 » by beyond_the_arc » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:55 am

Kerb Hohl wrote:
Newz wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:Go back to my original post that started this whole thing. I said there are 2 factions:
1. Those who are annoyed by his antics.
2. Those who have some undertones in what they're saying about him.

Also, I'm not a crusader on this board trying to point out any sort of racism or anything. I'm not somebody looking for any inch of reason to bring up the topic.


Right...

But it is outrageous to think that any and every person who called him a 'thug' is also calling him the 'N Word' or doing it just because he's black. Like I said before... I think a lot of people associate violence with football. A lot of guys who play the sport have done a lot of crazy things off of the field as well. So when they see a guy taunting, giving the choke sign and then screaming at the camera in a somewhat threatening way... I am guessing they associated him with a lot of other guys in the NFL who have got into trouble.

I can't say that's right, but I also can't say that I blame them.

I just don't think race really plays much of an issue in this at all. It is my personal opinion that if someone with a different skin color said the same thing that the reaction would have been very similar from fans.


The whole thing is that if a white guy did what Sherman did, he'd never be called a thug. You keep trying to pick up rocks and find equal comparisons but you can't. Birdman and Marshall Henderson were about as close as it got but they weren't near the flashpoint Sherman was.

Of course you're never going to agree with me but it's there. It's subconscious for a lot of people. I also think maybe saying it's a euphemism for "N word" may be harsh, more like "threatening counterculture."


No, it's not subconscious for everyone else just because it fits your world view, once again, patently stupid. You simply want to transfer your own experiences onto the view of everyone else, it's called projection and it's a terrible way to frame an argument.
Postby SubyWill on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:53 pm

Magic fan checking in, holy **** Harris is legit. Your GM should be fired.


No ****.
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Re: Super Bowl Lead Up 

Post#112 » by PkrsBcksGphsMqt » Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:34 pm

MM wrote a piece for MMQB on his SB XLV experience.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/GregABedard/status/428943380450906113[/tweet]
BucksRuleAll22 wrote:Calvin Johnson is horrible and not a top WR.
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Re: Super Bowl Lead Up 

Post#113 » by GB_Packers » Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:48 pm

Kaepernicks comments are...well, they make him look like a sore loser.

“Did that make you feel better about yourself? Then go ahead. Because I’m not worried about you,” Kaepernick said, via Bart Hubbuch of the New York Post.

Kaepernick had several other choice words for Sherman, including:

— “He’s afraid of our receivers, and that’s something I’m looking forward to [exploiting] next year.”

— “If I throw that ball one foot farther, it’s a TD and now you’re the goat, Richard Sherman.”

— “His comments were ridiculous. If you have to tell people how good you are, then how good are you really?”


Wasn't able to exploit him in the championship game but he'll get Sherman next year!
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Re: Super Bowl Lead Up 

Post#114 » by th87 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:05 pm

beyond_the_arc wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:
Newz wrote:
Right...

But it is outrageous to think that any and every person who called him a 'thug' is also calling him the 'N Word' or doing it just because he's black. Like I said before... I think a lot of people associate violence with football. A lot of guys who play the sport have done a lot of crazy things off of the field as well. So when they see a guy taunting, giving the choke sign and then screaming at the camera in a somewhat threatening way... I am guessing they associated him with a lot of other guys in the NFL who have got into trouble.

I can't say that's right, but I also can't say that I blame them.

I just don't think race really plays much of an issue in this at all. It is my personal opinion that if someone with a different skin color said the same thing that the reaction would have been very similar from fans.


The whole thing is that if a white guy did what Sherman did, he'd never be called a thug. You keep trying to pick up rocks and find equal comparisons but you can't. Birdman and Marshall Henderson were about as close as it got but they weren't near the flashpoint Sherman was.

Of course you're never going to agree with me but it's there. It's subconscious for a lot of people. I also think maybe saying it's a euphemism for "N word" may be harsh, more like "threatening counterculture."


No, it's not subconscious for everyone else just because it fits your world view, once again, patently stupid. You simply want to transfer your own experiences onto the view of everyone else, it's called projection and it's a terrible way to frame an argument.


Where did he say everyone does it?
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Re: Super Bowl Lead Up: 1/30 POLL ADDED 

Post#115 » by MickeyDavis » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:17 pm

Poll added
I'm against picketing but I don't know how to show it.
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Re: Super Bowl Lead Up: 1/30 POLL ADDED 

Post#116 » by PkrsBcksGphsMqt » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:42 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/cbfowler/status/429021295942963202[/tweet]
BucksRuleAll22 wrote:Calvin Johnson is horrible and not a top WR.
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Re: Super Bowl Lead Up: 1/30 POLL ADDED 

Post#117 » by BigDee » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:01 am

I like the Broncos to win this one for some reason.
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Re: Super Bowl Lead Up 

Post#118 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:03 am

Kerb Hohl wrote:
Newz wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:Go back to my original post that started this whole thing. I said there are 2 factions:
1. Those who are annoyed by his antics.
2. Those who have some undertones in what they're saying about him.

Also, I'm not a crusader on this board trying to point out any sort of racism or anything. I'm not somebody looking for any inch of reason to bring up the topic.


Right...

But it is outrageous to think that any and every person who called him a 'thug' is also calling him the 'N Word' or doing it just because he's black. Like I said before... I think a lot of people associate violence with football. A lot of guys who play the sport have done a lot of crazy things off of the field as well. So when they see a guy taunting, giving the choke sign and then screaming at the camera in a somewhat threatening way... I am guessing they associated him with a lot of other guys in the NFL who have got into trouble.

I can't say that's right, but I also can't say that I blame them.

I just don't think race really plays much of an issue in this at all. It is my personal opinion that if someone with a different skin color said the same thing that the reaction would have been very similar from fans.


The whole thing is that if a white guy did what Sherman did, he'd never be called a thug. You keep trying to pick up rocks and find equal comparisons but you can't. Birdman and Marshall Henderson were about as close as it got but they weren't near the flashpoint Sherman was.

Of course you're never going to agree with me but it's there. It's subconscious for a lot of people. I also think maybe saying it's a euphemism for "N word" may be harsh, more like "threatening counterculture."

I think this is similar is to the "bitch" sexism issue. Yeah there is some sexism calling a girl a bitch when if they were a guy you would call them a douche. I can see how one term is more negative than the other term but if they acted acted appropriately it wouldn't be an issue. We are all right. There is racism in this issue but that doesn't mean Sherman didn't act like a freaking idiot.
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Re: Super Bowl Lead Up: 1/30 POLL ADDED 

Post#119 » by FAH1223 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:28 am

PkrsBcksGphsMqt wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/cbfowler/status/429021295942963202[/tweet]


The artic blast is just about over here... good timing for DEN
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Re: Super Bowl Lead Up: 1/30 POLL ADDED 

Post#120 » by WiscSports1 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:58 pm

I think Denver wins, but I see a tight game. It all comes down to the fact that even if Sea D shuts down Manning, I still see them scoring 20-24 points. Can the Sea O match that? I'm not so sure.

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