College Football 2014 Thread

Kerb Hohl · Post #101 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Mon Sep 8, 2014 7:58 pm

You're right. If I'm an AD or college admin, I may consider letting another rape scandal or anything of that ilk sneak by in the name of letting my program succeed/make more money.

Not because everyone is in jail. Not because I've seen a school get docked with a $60 million fine, several-season bowl ban, and wins vacated...but because the bowl ban was lifted early for kids that weren't involved. Now I think the next scandal cover-up guy is going to think he can get away with this scotch free.

Post #102 » by **humanrefutation** » Mon Sep 8, 2014 8:00 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:You just hit on why this is getting an eye roll and a wank motion from me. The punishment was as much about the level of institutional chaos over football as anything. Football had become too big and this toxic environment contributed to the cover-up and lack of activity when it became apparent that Sandusky was doing these awful things. Knowing some PSU grads personally I can almost say that the penalty strengthened their resolve and created even more of an Us vs Them mentality. The punishment wasn't severe enough.

It's obvious that there are programs around the country where football will trump all else. What happened at PSU could have happened at just about every school in the SEC. So at the very least I thought the sanctions should have continued.

I agree. This was inextricably linked with the football program not just because of the actors involved, but because the university was so threatened by a black mark on their football program they they covered it up. The fact that fans RALLIED to support JoePa and company afterwards just confirmed how immensely tone-deaf they had become. I still kind of wish they wiped away their football program for a few years just to stick it to those fans.

Kerb Hohl · Post #103 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Mon Sep 8, 2014 8:03 pm

You're obviously never going to stop a rapist with any level of punishment. Sandusky as a mature man knew the penalties, you'd assume.

As for the admins, I would have to think they knew of the consequences. If they didn't, they do now.

They are college admins. They know that if they get caught they are going to jail. What the hell does their ex-football program's money/success factor into that decision?

It's like me deciding to cover up a murder to save my HS's football program. If I'm dumb enough to neglect the idea that I'm putting myself in serious jail time, what does HS football association's penalty have to do with my decision-making?

Post #104 » by **humanrefutation** » Mon Sep 8, 2014 8:10 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:You're obviously never going to stop a rapist with any level of punishment. Sandusky as a mature man knew the penalties, you'd assume.

As for the admins, I would have to think they knew of the consequences. If they didn't, they do now.

They are college admins. They know that if they get caught they are going to jail. What the hell does their ex-football program's money/success factor into that decision?

It's like me deciding to cover up a murder to save my HS's football program. If I'm dumb enough to neglect the idea that I'm putting myself in serious jail time, what does HS football association's penalty have to do with my decision-making?

They were a part of the program when the cover up took place.

Kerb Hohl · Post #105 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Mon Sep 8, 2014 8:13 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:You're obviously never going to stop a rapist with any level of punishment. Sandusky as a mature man knew the penalties, you'd assume.

As for the admins, I would have to think they knew of the consequences. If they didn't, they do now.

They are college admins. They know that if they get caught they are going to jail. What the hell does their ex-football program's money/success factor into that decision?

It's like me deciding to cover up a murder to save my HS's football program. If I'm dumb enough to neglect the idea that I'm putting myself in serious jail time, what does HS football association's penalty have to do with my decision-making?

They were a part of the program when the cover up took place.

Yes, and they knew the consequences would be grave if they were caught. How could they not? And there was still a massive punishment levied. Now any other admin knows that this is the type of punishment you'd see from the NCAA...but again, why should I care about the NCAA's punishment if I know that I'm probably going to jail?

Post #106 » by **humanrefutation** » Mon Sep 8, 2014 10:03 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:You're obviously never going to stop a rapist with any level of punishment. Sandusky as a mature man knew the penalties, you'd assume.

As for the admins, I would have to think they knew of the consequences. If they didn't, they do now.

They are college admins. They know that if they get caught they are going to jail. What the hell does their ex-football program's money/success factor into that decision?

It's like me deciding to cover up a murder to save my HS's football program. If I'm dumb enough to neglect the idea that I'm putting myself in serious jail time, what does HS football association's penalty have to do with my decision-making?

They were a part of the program when the cover up took place.

Yes, and they knew the consequences would be grave if they were caught. How could they not? And there was still a massive punishment levied. Now any other admin knows that this is the type of punishment you'd see from the NCAA...but again, why should I care about the NCAA's punishment if I know that I'm probably going to jail?

I don't think they did understand the severity of the situation. I don't think any of them were so committed to the PSU football program that they were willing to go to jail to defend it. The president, AD, and everyone else probably figured that this would be an embarrassment to the university and their program if it came out, and they decided to deal with it behind closed doors. They didn't seriously consider the criminal consequences to their actions. They looked at this purely as a PR issue for the football program.

Kerb Hohl · Post #107 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Tue Sep 9, 2014 12:23 am

So in your estimation, would not cutting a year off of the bowl ban help a future school admin realize the ramifications?

The damage was done with jail time. Anyone that isn't scared away by that is an idiot and is going to commit a future crime anyways.

Post #108 » by **humanrefutation** » Tue Sep 9, 2014 2:16 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:So in your estimation, would not cutting a year off of the bowl ban help a future school admin realize the ramifications?

The damage was done with jail time. Anyone that isn't scared away by that is an idiot and is going to commit a future crime anyways.

Did you see the fans of PSU rallying and chanting for JoePa and demanding the statue be returned? No, I don't think they understood the ramifications. It's not just about the administration. It's the culture at the university.

Kerb Hohl · Post #109 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Tue Sep 9, 2014 3:59 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:So in your estimation, would not cutting a year off of the bowl ban help a future school admin realize the ramifications?

The damage was done with jail time. Anyone that isn't scared away by that is an idiot and is going to commit a future crime anyways.

Did you see the fans of PSU rallying and chanting for JoePa and demanding the statue be returned? No, I don't think they understood the ramifications. It's not just about the administration. It's the culture at the university.

It's the culture at almost any university. People are idiots about that stuff. You can't remove a football program just because a bunch of students that are committing no crime are stupid and chanting for a football coach's statue.

The point here is that people were charged criminally. No matter what punishment the NCAA levied, the students would be idiots. They'd be doing the same stuff in 2 years if the original sanctions existed.

None of these students participated in the cover-up. The administrators should be logical enough people to think "boy, I could be facing many years of jail time for my actions" when they commit them. Not, "I hope that I don't piss off the fans."

Post #110 » by **humanrefutation** » Tue Sep 9, 2014 4:35 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:So in your estimation, would not cutting a year off of the bowl ban help a future school admin realize the ramifications?

The damage was done with jail time. Anyone that isn't scared away by that is an idiot and is going to commit a future crime anyways.

Did you see the fans of PSU rallying and chanting for JoePa and demanding the statue be returned? No, I don't think they understood the ramifications. It's not just about the administration. It's the culture at the university.

It's the culture at almost any university. People are idiots about that stuff. You can't remove a football program just because a bunch of students that are committing no crime are stupid and chanting for a football coach's statue.

The point here is that people were charged criminally. No matter what punishment the NCAA levied, the students would be idiots. They'd be doing the same stuff in 2 years if the original sanctions existed.

None of these students participated in the cover-up. The administrators should be logical enough people to think "boy, I could be facing many years of jail time for my actions" when they commit them. Not, "I hope that I don't piss off the fans."

You seem to be making the mistake that this is was just a failing on the part of five people. That it was just a matter of their unique and specific negligence. That if you cut out those five, the problem is solved.

I believe the problem was far more systemic then that. This was the President of the university, the Athletic Director, and their longest tenured coach. These decisions were made at the direction of the leaders of this institution. And, they didn't do this solely to protect themselves. They made the decision to cover up Sandusky's crimes in order to protect the **** football program. They did it to protect the image of their pride and joy. They did it to protect its legacy.They valued that MORE than the lives of these children.

You seem to think this is solely a criminal matter involving those five people.

Again, I believe the problem was far more systemic then that. The fact that thousands of students rallied - not against their university for enabling a pedophile - but to protect the legacy of their football program, tells me that their priorities were out of wack. And until they (the students, the administration, everyone) understands that their football program doesn't matter more than the lives of innocent little kids, then they shouldn't have a **** football program. I don't understand why that's controversial.

That's why the university should be punished. So they can't simply scapegoat those administrators as bad eggs and move on. So they can be given a clear message that they will be held responsible for the actions of their leaders.

Kerb Hohl · Post #111 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Tue Sep 9, 2014 4:39 pm

The University was massively punished. The NCAA is a athletics department. This was a criminal investigation that was harshly punished by law.

College football is big business, like it or not. Cover-ups for the sake of profit happen a lot in big business and an extra ban on corporate parties 4 years into it aren't going to do much to stop that.

I don't think any of these people are doing much in the way of condoning anything of what Sandusky did. They are misguided on their iconic coach covering it up. They're college kids and potentially a minority of the alumni.

If you're looking for a world where nobody is going to be an idiot and try to defend their iconic sports figure who was a partial accessory to this crime, you'll still be waiting a long time. People are idiots in that regard. I'm sure there are plenty of kids shaking their heads in their dorm rooms as well.

Honestly, if you think somebody is going to be concerned about NCAA sanctions of a school that they will no longer be at when committing felonies, then I guess you're missing the point. Hell, Pete Carroll didn't commit a felony and do you see how many **** he gave when cheating in the game (something that actually should be punished by the NCAA, but somehow still can't punish the actual perpetrator).

Logic:
-I'm covering up a crime, which is a felony on my behalf.
-Wait, my football team could get the death penalty or an extra bowl ban while I'm in jail. Well ****, maybe I won't do this then!

In terms of the rest of the university...if none of them know what is going on when Sandusky is doing it, what are they supposed to be able to do? And why should they get punished?

Kerb Hohl · Post #112 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Tue Sep 9, 2014 4:48 pm

There are plenty of people that are in some way, shape, or form defending Ray Rice. Now, actually, some of their people involved with this whole "did they see the tape" stuff should be punished, and really should be anyways even if they didn't see the tape, given that it's hard to imagine her getting knocked out going any differently than it was.

Should the Ravens cease to exist and have many of their players that had nothing to do with it suspended for continuing to support their teammate through it? There are people that are idiots out there. NCAA and NFL have reached beyond the point of return of being "too big to fail" in this case. Just look at the **** reaction we had on this board when the Fail Mary happened. People's lives were shaken up by that.

Post #113 » by **ReasonablySober** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:30 pm

It's a dog slate of games today. Hoping we get some close games. I wish Wyoming was playing Oregon two years into Bohl's tenure. That program is gonna be the next Boise State.

Mags FTW · Post #114 » by **Mags FTW** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:57 pm

I see it's time for the annual V-Tech early season bed wetting.

trwi7 · Post #115 » by **trwi7** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:08 pm

Bielema is going to give birth any day now.

PkrsBcksGphsMqt · Post #116 » by **PkrsBcksGphsMqt** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:27 pm

Kerb Hohl · Post #117 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:24 am

ReasonablySober wrote:It's a dog slate of games today. Hoping we get some close games. I wish Wyoming was playing Oregon two years into Bohl's tenure. That program is gonna be the next Boise State.

I still need to figure out how the hell I am related to that guy.

Badgerlander · Post #118 » by **Badgerlander** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:25 pm

PkrsBcksGphsMqt · Post #119 » by **PkrsBcksGphsMqt** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:15 pm

KidA24 · Post #120 » by **KidA24** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:16 pm

That's awesome... but.... WHO WAS HE THROWING IT TO?