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Packers vs Chiefs Lead up

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Re: RE: Re: Packers vs Chiefs Lead up 

Post#41 » by Flames24Rulz » Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:01 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
WiscoKing13 wrote:1. Green Bay Packers
Of all DT/NTs with at least 30 pass-rushing snaps, B.J. Raji has the best pass-rushing productivity (12.8). He has seven pressures in the last two games, which is more than his previous 10 games combined.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/09/22/pff-nfl-power-rankings-for-week-3/

Stunned

It's 2010 Raji that we're seeing out there. He's been beastly. I love it.


He was amazing on Sunday. If we get 2009-2010 Raji back this year, that's a complete game changer for the defense.
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Re: Packers vs Chiefs Lead up 

Post#42 » by emunney » Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:29 pm

WiscoKing13 wrote:I don't want to sound like one of those crazy homers on twitter, but anyone else surprised Janis hasn't gotten a shot? The offense is clearly lacking a deep threat and while Montgomery played well on offense last game he doesn't add anything over what Cobb can do. Just seems strange we haven't tried him on a deep route vs a 3rd or 4th corner.


I'm not surprised, but I do think he'd have been more effective than the gimpy Adams we got back in the 2nd half.
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Re: Packers vs Chiefs Lead up 

Post#43 » by humanrefutation » Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:30 pm

emunney wrote:
WiscoKing13 wrote:I don't want to sound like one of those crazy homers on twitter, but anyone else surprised Janis hasn't gotten a shot? The offense is clearly lacking a deep threat and while Montgomery played well on offense last game he doesn't add anything over what Cobb can do. Just seems strange we haven't tried him on a deep route vs a 3rd or 4th corner.


I'm not surprised, but I do think he'd have been more effective than the gimpy Adams we got back in the 2nd half.


The fact that a hobbled Adams was out there ahead of Janis is all we need to know about how much Rodgers trusts Janis at this point.
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Re: Packers vs Chiefs Lead up 

Post#44 » by emunney » Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:36 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
emunney wrote:
WiscoKing13 wrote:I don't want to sound like one of those crazy homers on twitter, but anyone else surprised Janis hasn't gotten a shot? The offense is clearly lacking a deep threat and while Montgomery played well on offense last game he doesn't add anything over what Cobb can do. Just seems strange we haven't tried him on a deep route vs a 3rd or 4th corner.


I'm not surprised, but I do think he'd have been more effective than the gimpy Adams we got back in the 2nd half.


The fact that a hobbled Adams was out there ahead of Janis is all we need to know about how much Rodgers trusts Janis at this point.


It's not necessarily that simple, but maybe. Adams says he can go, the doctors say he can go -- kind of hard to say he's not the same guy until after it's already happened. I don't think you can bench him on suspicion of being unable to really push off it. Non-head injury, you've got to let the guy try to play through it unless medical is telling you it could cause a bigger problem.
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Re: Packers vs Chiefs Lead up 

Post#45 » by humanrefutation » Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:40 pm

emunney wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
emunney wrote:
I'm not surprised, but I do think he'd have been more effective than the gimpy Adams we got back in the 2nd half.


The fact that a hobbled Adams was out there ahead of Janis is all we need to know about how much Rodgers trusts Janis at this point.


It's not necessarily that simple, but maybe. Adams says he can go, the doctors say he can go -- kind of hard to say he's not the same guy until after it's already happened. I don't think you can bench him on suspicion of being unable to really push off it. Non-head injury, you've got to let the guy try to play through it unless medical is telling you it could cause a bigger problem.


Yeah, but they kept him out there even when his performance indicated that he was pretty hobbled. He was obviously limping to get set and in some of his routes.
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Re: Packers vs Chiefs Lead up 

Post#46 » by Ron Swanson » Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:07 pm

I don't think them not putting in Janis is an indictment against the guy as a player at all. It's probably just a combination of his lack of reps and the coaches not knowing how serious Adams ankle was at the time. There's a difference between "trust" and "experience", especially in an offense that requires such precise route-running.
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Re: Packers vs Chiefs Lead up 

Post#47 » by askdavescat » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:01 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
emunney wrote:
WiscoKing13 wrote:I don't want to sound like one of those crazy homers on twitter, but anyone else surprised Janis hasn't gotten a shot? The offense is clearly lacking a deep threat and while Montgomery played well on offense last game he doesn't add anything over what Cobb can do. Just seems strange we haven't tried him on a deep route vs a 3rd or 4th corner.


I'm not surprised, but I do think he'd have been more effective than the gimpy Adams we got back in the 2nd half.


The fact that a hobbled Adams was out there ahead of Janis is all we need to know about how much Rodgers trusts Janis at this point.


Not disagreeing here, just playing devil's advocate for a minute.... This "Rodgers doesn't trust Janis yet" is what we here from basically every radio/TV talking head, and it's probably true. The thing is though, how come for the past two pre-seasons, GB's 2nd and 3rd string quarterbacks seem to be able to hook up with him just fine ( I know, basic defenses, no game planning, etc....). The point is, Janis has the ability to stretch a field that no one else in GB ( including a healthy Nelson ) has. Rather than making up excuses for keeping his talents on the bench, it would seem more productive for the team if Rodgers could work with Janis, find some common ground, figure out a few packages / route trees where they are on the same page, and get Janis' deep speed out on the field.
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Re: Packers vs Chiefs Lead up 

Post#48 » by LikeABosh » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:08 pm

Chiefs have never lost at Lambeau. Weird

Actually they only play there every 8 years. Not that weird I guess
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Re: Packers vs Chiefs Lead up 

Post#49 » by crkone » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:13 pm

Janis just needs more time to develop timing, understanding route trees, etc. He's very, very green when it comes to being an NFL WR.

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Re: Packers vs Chiefs Lead up 

Post#50 » by humanrefutation » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:19 pm

askdavescat wrote:Rather than making up excuses for keeping his talents on the bench, it would seem more productive for the team if Rodgers could work with Janis, find some common ground, figure out a few packages / route trees where they are on the same page, and get Janis' deep speed out on the field.


That's what preseason and training camp is for. I'm sure they tried that, and Janis isn't there yet. He even got elevated to the #2/3 when Jordy and Cobb got hurt, and still didn't make enough of an impression to pass a rookie in Montgomery or convince the team not to bring in James Jones.
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Re: Packers vs Chiefs Lead up 

Post#51 » by ReasonablySober » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:34 pm

I think we can cool it a bit on the Janis criticism based on his playing time. He isn't playing over a Pro Bowler, a 2nd rounder, a 3rd rounder, and a guy who recently lead the league in TDs and had 73 catches last season. The opportunity simply isn't there for him, and hasn't been.
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Re: Packers vs Chiefs Lead up 

Post#52 » by jimmybones » Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:12 pm

askdavescat wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
emunney wrote:
I'm not surprised, but I do think he'd have been more effective than the gimpy Adams we got back in the 2nd half.


The fact that a hobbled Adams was out there ahead of Janis is all we need to know about how much Rodgers trusts Janis at this point.


Not disagreeing here, just playing devil's advocate for a minute.... This "Rodgers doesn't trust Janis yet" is what we here from basically every radio/TV talking head, and it's probably true. The thing is though, how come for the past two pre-seasons, GB's 2nd and 3rd string quarterbacks seem to be able to hook up with him just fine ( I know, basic defenses, no game planning, etc....). The point is, Janis has the ability to stretch a field that no one else in GB ( including a healthy Nelson ) has. Rather than making up excuses for keeping his talents on the bench, it would seem more productive for the team if Rodgers could work with Janis, find some common ground, figure out a few packages / route trees where they are on the same page, and get Janis' deep speed out on the field.


They aren't going to go out of their way to make a package to get their 5th WR on the field. You answered your own question regarding the preseason, his numbers there mean very little. I think you're overstating his ability as a deep threat, it's not that unique or elite in that they HAVE to find a way to get him out there.

Bottom line, they have 4 WR they like a lot more than Janis and they're going to play those guys.
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Re: Packers vs Chiefs Lead up 

Post#53 » by El Duderino » Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:02 am

jimmybones wrote:
They aren't going to go out of their way to make a package to get their 5th WR on the field. You answered your own question regarding the preseason, his numbers there mean very little. I think you're overstating his ability as a deep threat, it's not that unique or elite in that they HAVE to find a way to get him out there.

Bottom line, they have 4 WR they like a lot more than Janis and they're going to play those guys.


Plus, it's a long 16 game season. At some point at least one of the receivers will get hurt, whether for just part of a game, a few games, or a season ending injury. Then Janis will be called on to play some snaps. For now though, he's the 5th receiver, so he isn't playing, just as other 5th receivers on teams across the league aren't playing either.

Watching Montgomery on Sunday, i can't help but get very excited about his future here. When i initially saw his name picked in the draft, i wondered why Ted was drafting another receiver in the first three rounds given our other needs. Then i watched his highlights and got what Ted liked. With so much of this offense based on run after the catch, Ty seems like such an ideal fit. Just get him the ball in the middle of the field or on bubble screen type of plays and let his natural running gifts take over, kind of like having a second Cobb, but stronger.
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Re: Packers vs Chiefs Lead up 

Post#54 » by Profound23 » Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:25 am

LikeABosh wrote:Chiefs have never lost at Lambeau. Weird

Actually they only play there every 8 years. Not that weird I guess



Yeah this is almost like saying the Packers are undefeated against the Chiefs in the Superbowl.
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Re: Packers vs Chiefs Lead up 

Post#55 » by RRyder823 » Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:26 am

Can we pump the breaks on Montgomery for a second here. I wasn't happy with the pick when we made it but have been pleasantly suprised thus far but really outside of the one catch and run he had against Seattle he's been far from special. And sorry on that play Wagner and a few other Seattle players more or less simply collided together rather than anything Montgomery did. He showed great balance on the play yes but if that happened the other way around we'd be bitching about how comically bad a tackling job it was more than anything the runner did.

As for Janis, preseason aside, he simply hasn't made enough progress to warrant any sort of playing time. Gotta show it in practice first if the guys ahead of you are showing they can contribute. You don't just get the opportunity handed to you. Case in point look at our CBs. It's more suprising to me that neither Rollins or Gunter is playing but that's on themselves to work their way in.

Not trying to come off as a wet blanket just that I think people need to cool the jets on Montgomery a lil bit and give him some more time otherwise the backlash will come when he doesn't produce for a few games and that Janis simply isn't good enough right now to warrant playing time. Which is saying something cause we lack any deep threat right now
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Re: RE: Re: Packers vs Chiefs Lead up 

Post#56 » by HKPackFan » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:22 am

RRyder823 wrote:Can we pump the breaks on Montgomery for a second here. I wasn't happy with the pick when we made it but have been pleasantly suprised thus far but really outside of the one catch and run he had against Seattle he's been far from special. And sorry on that play Wagner and a few other Seattle players more or less simply collided together rather than anything Montgomery did. He showed great balance on the play yes but if that happened the other way around we'd be bitching about how comically bad a tackling job it was more than anything the runner did.

As for Janis, preseason aside, he simply hasn't made enough progress to warrant any sort of playing time. Gotta show it in practice first if the guys ahead of you are showing they can contribute. You don't just get the opportunity handed to you. Case in point look at our CBs. It's more suprising to me that neither Rollins or Gunter is playing but that's on themselves to work their way in.

Not trying to come off as a wet blanket just that I think people need to cool the jets on Montgomery a lil bit and give him some more time otherwise the backlash will come when he doesn't produce for a few games and that Janis simply isn't good enough right now to warrant playing time. Which is saying something cause we lack any deep threat right now



I don't think there would be backlash. Me personally I'm excited by what he can do now but more so the potential he has with a year or two of seasoning with Rodgers. I'm also excited about his return abilities.

The weather will get colder and second half of the season those KOs will no longer be in the back of the end zone and I think with an improved team of blockers there will be room to run.

We haven't had a KO threat in forever so for me I've been super excited about this pick since day 1. I feel the return game was a definite area of need so I'm glad this entire draft has special teams needs sprinkled all over it and the results are showing 2 games in.

Agreed we shouldn't expect Ty to become an all pro by next week but having some similar skill sets as cobb makes it harder to defend this offense when you add another weapon.

After jordy went down in was a bit nervous if teams could key on cobb and shut down our passing game but with JJ and now Ty stepping up again if the D takes away one Rodgers will go to the other.

I also think these individual talents become greater as part of a potent attack. Maybe ty isn't the greatest ever but coupled with 2 or 3 other weapons flying around the field as a 4th option he's going to win more of his battles.

I think it's an exciting time to be a Packers fan.

Although I do think specifically for this game we may see less fireworks with a stronger front line that is usually one of our Achilles heels is a strong front four that doesn't need to blitz.

Another good measuring stick to see where this team is at.
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Re: Packers vs Chiefs Lead up 

Post#57 » by El Duderino » Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:04 am

RRyder823 wrote:Can we pump the breaks on Montgomery for a second here. I wasn't happy with the pick when we made it but have been pleasantly suprised thus far but really outside of the one catch and run he had against Seattle he's been far from special.


I just love his quickness and strength in the open field. That doesn't mean i expect him to end up with 1000 receiving yards and 10 TD's this year, but i do think as the year goes along the offensive coaches will scheme ways to get him the ball in space and maybe also off scrambles by Rodgers which will lead to big plays.

For awhile in the NFL, most teams were mainly just looking to add big strong receivers to try and create mismatches with smaller corners and with good reason teams still are looking for those type of big receivers. That said, more and more teams are also looking strongly for quick receivers who can get open out of the slot or on quick passes to the edge, and then run after the catch. Guys like Cobb and Edelman being prime examples.

Clearly it's way to early to say that Montgomery will ever be as good as those two, but i just love his short area quickness, strong frame, and proven ability in college to be really good in the open field. He's going to have to avoid dropping balls he should catch and get open besides just really short passes. We'll see on that. My gut feeling though is that he'll go from mostly a spot fill in on certain drives to someone who gets consistent snaps as the season goes along by making plays, which force increased snaps.
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Re: RE: Re: Packers vs Chiefs Lead up 

Post#58 » by humanrefutation » Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:33 am

ReasonablySober wrote:I think we can cool it a bit on the Janis criticism based on his playing time. He isn't playing over a Pro Bowler, a 2nd rounder, a 3rd rounder, and a guy who recently lead the league in TDs and had 73 catches last season. The opportunity simply isn't there for him, and hasn't been.

I'm not hating on Janis. I really hope the kid steps up and becomes a contributor. It's clear he has some raw talent.

My point was more about Rodgers. He's notoriously demanding of his receivers. There were times last season where Adams simply disappeared, and from my recollection, it was implied that Rodgers basically stopped looking his way because Davante wasn't reliable and consistent enough on a snap to snap basis. Granted, when you have Jordy and Cobb, you can afford to do that.

Janis is just going through the same growing pains. Frankly, my biggest concern about him is that the team felt it was necessary not only to draft Montgomery, but to pick up Jones after Jordy got hurt. Janis was pushed even further down the depth chart. My contention is that if Janis was showing the team, and our QB, that he could be a meaningful contributor right now, they may not have decided to do those things.
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Re: Packers vs Chiefs Lead up 

Post#59 » by MickeyDavis » Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:12 pm

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Re: Packers vs Chiefs Lead up 

Post#60 » by M-C-G » Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:13 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:I think we can cool it a bit on the Janis criticism based on his playing time. He isn't playing over a Pro Bowler, a 2nd rounder, a 3rd rounder, and a guy who recently lead the league in TDs and had 73 catches last season. The opportunity simply isn't there for him, and hasn't been.


Yep, maybe we have been too spoiled by the number of late round picks that were thrust into a bigger role earlier, but we took him as a project. Throwing him out there going against Sherman wasn't really a great option, as it would have just shut off that side of the field if Rodgers couldn't be 100% sure what Janis would do in any scenario.

Give the guy some time, he is a playmaker but all he did in college was run as fast as I could and they would just throw it deep. It's going to take more than a year to learn how to run routes and then be able to process the game to the standard our other WR have set.

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