Panthers Postgame - Worst 6-2 Packers team ever?

[chuckleslove]

The year we won the super bowl the defense bailed out the offense more than Rodgers greatness carried us. We had the #2 scoring defense behind the Steelers. Nice revisionist history though. Yes in 2011 we **** the bed in the playoffs, but that happens sometimes in one and done situations, I'm not going to make an indictment on the entire team by cherry picking small sample sizes of data, but that's the scientist in me.

Capers defenses have been giving up career highs and records for years now. Warner had more TDs than incompletions, 2011 was the worst yards defense of all time, Kaepernick set an NFL record, and so on. These aren't isolated incidents.

No doubt I have no problem moving on from Capers and have said so for several years, I was merely correcting the original post notion that we only won the Super Bowl because of Rodgers greatness because that's just not true. Watch th Super Bowl DVD and you can see Greg Jennings on the sideline saying he hates always putting the defense in that spot. Other than the Atlanta game the defense sealed every win in the playoffs after the offense couldn't run the clock out.

[HKPackFan]

I didn't do the advanced stats but it seems to me that the TT/MM/Dom era is defined by defensive turnovers that result or set up scores. We seem more dependent on TO's than other teams but that's simply an observation. Don't know if stats back it up. But if Clay and a couple secondary guys aren't making numerous big plays, we struggle.

The other problem of this era is the running game. Having one to run out the clock when ahead is critical, but the rest of the time the MM offense seems to be more Golden State Warriors. Just line up the five wideouts and go as much as that strategy has it's limitations. I thought Lacey would be a huge addition, but he seems to gum up the works more often than not in trying to implement him the past few seasons.

Agree with this. Our Superbowl 2010 was a HUGE part because of the defense kicking ass and getting turnovers. Tramon Williams, Sam Shields, BJ Raji, all had huge game changing/game clinching plays that were the difference in each Post season game, heck the superbowl was a perfect example with Collins pick 6 and then Clay Mathews "It is time" a moment that will go on in Packers Lore forever.

Rodgers was awesome but he had a heck of a lot of help with his defense coming through for him. It's pretty impossible to say we just rode Rodgers to the Superbowl. Heck even Favre needed the #1 defense in the league to get a Superbowl ring. Collins and Woodson were unbelievably awesome in 2010. Sometimes people forgot how fing awesome Collins was at safety. It was like we finally got that position resolved after missing Butler for so many years. Collins was top 3 safety in the league IMO (I thought were were set for the next decade with Collins ) and we had Woodson sometimes taking over games playing at a HOF level. Cullen Jenkins and Raji were destroying people in the Dline, and Bishop was cleaning up in the middle of the field while Claymaker was creating chaos. That was a solid unit that disappeared way too fast. We've never adequately replaced those pieces.

Outside of that in the games we don't get the crunch time turn overs it seems the defense just gets run over year after year (but then they make a few really good redzone stops and claim it's all part of the plan only the scoreboard matters ).

The defense definitely deserves its fair share of criticism. To play a defense knowing the middle of the field is always open, but just hoping you get a stop inside the 5 yardline or get a turnover is a f'd up philosophy. "We just need a few turnovers and hand it over to Arod who builds a big enough lead where we rush the passer every down" is not a sound defense. I know that's not the philosophy but that's been the result for years.

On offense Lacy was supposed to provide the balance to our offense, that has been a complete FAIL. Lacy looks terrible and the Oline is not blocking (also Dick included) the line is not giving any space. Worse Lacy can't make the first guy miss anymore. At least starks won't go down on initial contact, if he's surrounded by 4 guys one step after getting the ball, I'm not blaming starks or Lacy for not getting yardage. There have been some seriously **** run blocking.

[HKPackFan]

What's frustrating is we are about to go into one of the most important stretches of the season. We have 3 games in 11 friggin days!! All NFC North games, so we really can't be farting around and dropping any of these with the division on the line. Especially the 2nd game being AT Minny and at this point forget HFA, we need to clinch our division!!


I'm so mixed on my feelings at the moment. We better go 3-0 but at the same time if we beat 2 **** teams at home and 1 winning team away, without changing a thing will Packer management think, "Hey we solved everything!!" It is almost like if we win ugly against Detroit/Chi we rob ourselves of the satisfaction of victory coz we are still worried this team has holes that show up against good opponents.

Yet I'm getting too ahead of myself. Step 1 beat the Lions at home then focus on the showdown with the Queens.




One more thing. I'm kinda happy we saw some raw emotions from our team yesterday. It's better than everyone sitting around like they don't care. If they are frustrated then GOOD. Let them use that energy this week and get their act together. IF they are disgusted with themselves hope they realize they are not getting in done and every individual has to do a better job. This loss was still a team loss. Oline can't block, WRs cant get open, Lacy is fat and fumbling, Rodgers missing Wrs and less than stellar clock management. No one on Defense did their job. Maybe just Daniels and Randall made a couple plays but the rest of the 12-15 regular defenders all **** the bed. Even special teams sucked.

The only positive is Palmer left the game and didn't come back. I can only hope Jake Ryan is the answer or at least a better alternative.

[El Duderino]

I still can't understand why RR is lined up in the slot over Abby/Janis. Hopefully when Montgomery is healthy we'll never have to watch that.

This has been driving me so crazy that Richard Rodgers is on the field for nearly every snap even though he's not a good run blocker and worse that that, he offers absolutely nothing in the passing game in those non-stop 3 WR 1 TE sets with him lined up in the slot.

It doesn't matter if he's covered by a linebacker, corner, or safety, he can't get open and the defenses don't have to have another guy in the secondary keep an eye on him in case he beats his man. A total waste of of one receiving option. Hell, i seriously think that even AJ Hawk could cover Rodgers, yet he's out there every snap.

Abby/Janis may be raw, but at least they would have a chance to get open downfield in 4 WR sets vs having to watch Rodgers lumber around.

If R. Rodgers had to race Greivis Vasquez in a 40 yard dash, who wins?

[HKPackFan]

I still can't understand why RR is lined up in the slot over Abby/Janis. Hopefully when Montgomery is healthy we'll never have to watch that.

This has been driving me so crazy that Richard Rodgers is on the field for nearly every snap even though he's not a good run blocker and worse that that, he offers absolutely nothing in the passing game in those non-stop 3 WR 1 TE sets with him lined up in the slot.

It doesn't matter if he's covered by a linebacker, corner, or safety, he can't get open and the defenses don't have to have another guy in the secondary keep an eye on him in case he beats his man. A total waste of of one receiving option. Hell, i seriously think that even AJ Hawk could cover Rodgers, yet he's out there every snap.

Abby/Janis may be raw, but at least they would have a chance to get open downfield in 4 WR sets vs having to watch Rodgers lumber around.

If R. Rodgers had to race Greivis Vasquez in a 40 yard dash, who wins?

Neither. In a 40 yard dash from the goal line Trashquez would take two steps forward then turn around and grab a ball and begin chucking them to try to get them through the goal post but every one of them would clang out or he would miss the goal posts all together. Dick would run two steps forward and just fall down then decide to walk off the field.

[El Duderino]

McCarthy is an average NFL coach, but they aren't going to fire him because he has a good record and a ring.

My feelings why Ted wouldn't get rid of McCarthy anytime soon are

1. Ted really likes/appreciates that McCarthy is 100% on board with Ted's vision of team building which consists of pretty much only building teams with draft picks and ignoring free agency/trades, except for very rare instances. This i think is comforting for Ted to have a head coach who mostly stays out of roster construction and fully believes in Ted's philosophy.

2. Ted likes continuity.

My biggest beef with McCarthy is him sticking with Capers so long.

The defense certainly has problems talent wise. Ted has spent a lot of picks in the first 3-4 rounds on defensive players and simply hasn't hit on enough of them. This is a 3-4 defense and linebackers are hugely important in that scheme, yet since picking Clay, Ted hasn't drafted a single high quality linebacker in all of that time. This failure has also forced the best pass rusher to move inside. Clinton-Dix doesn't look like he'll be an impact safety as we hoped and Burnett is mediocre.

That all said, i see no reason why Capers is still running the defense. The playoff debacle in San Fran should have been the end for him. It never feels like the defense over-achieves under him and to often falls apart in big games. So what exactly would be the harm in trying someone else at running the defense? None i can see.

[paulpressey25]

Capers defenses have been giving up career highs and records for years now. Warner had more TDs than incompletions, 2011 was the worst yards defense of all time, Kaepernick set an NFL record, and so on. These aren't isolated incidents.

And the Packers have masked those performances with stretches where the Caper's D forces a bunch of big turnovers, many times for scores. And I think those performances (and resulting Packer wins) lull people into thinking their aren't serious issues with the front 7. But there have been serious front 7 deficiencies (either talent or scheme or both) for years now.

In a FF league I was in during the 90's I remember this guy always picking the Vikings D back then even though they really weren't particularly great most years. But for whatever the reason Denny Green was able to force big play turnovers for scores which obviously went in the guy's plus column most weeks. That always reminds me of this Packer defense since 2008.

[PkrsBcksGphsMqt]

Sometimes I really wonder if MM would be a head coach with at top 10-15 QB instead of one of the all time great's.

[sidney lanier]

The Packers will always be at a disadvantage to other terms in certain respects. We'll never have a crazy, capricious owner who thinks he knows more than he does about football and overreacts to a couple of midseason losses. The ownership will never want to make changes based on emotion or on silly and tendentious stats. No one in an ownership position will ever pressure the GM into making shiny-object free agent acquisitions.

I guess some fans are stuck doing those things for themselves.

[msiris]

Ted needs to take some of the blame as well. Outside of few guys everyone else is average. Packers are a good regular season team, but when it comes to the playoffs we are at best average. After next week all will be fine in Packer land.

[msiris]

The Packers will always be at a disadvantage to other terms in certain respects. We'll never have a crazy, capricious owner who thinks he knows more than he does about football and overreacts to a couple of midseason losses. The ownership will never want to make changes based on emotion or on silly and tendentious stats. No one in an ownership position will ever pressure the GM into making shiny-object free agent acquisitions.

I guess some fans are stuck doing those things for themselves.

Look at NE. They do all these things and have won plenty of Superbowls.

[msiris]

Sometimes I really wonder if MM would be a head coach with at top 10-15 QB instead of one of the all time great's.

I have said this many times. Without ARod MM and Ted would look mortal. And would have been fired awhile ago.

[humanrefutation]

As Rodgers said after the game, I have no fear in coming back to Carolina. I think we can destroy them in their house. We just need to start faster. It's like the 2010 Falcons; a paper tiger.

I am legitimately concerned about our receiving corp, though. Adams hasn't added anything since he got back two weeks ago.

[ak7]

New England, Cincinnati, Carolina, Denver, Arizona, Atlanta, Green Bay.

One of these 7 "contending" teams is not like the others. That team is Green Bay. We do not supplement our roster issues with Free Agency and/or trades and it shows like a damn fresh white-head pimple once injuries happen. And this is an every year thing for us. When the heck will management realize they cannot rely on practice squad scrubs such as Justin Perillo, Jared Abbrederis, and Jeff Janis to beat elite man-coverage from a team with a great front 7, like you know, the type of defenses you see from the best teams in the league, once injuries happen? I know there is a lot of love here for Abby and Janis, but take off the green and gold shades for a second and be realistic. I am not sure having Jordy Nelson solves the issues in its entirety either. For the hybrid west-cost/spread offense that they like to run, not having a pass-catching TE who is a threat in man coverage is a serious hindrance.

At some point, as Mark Murphy, you have to begin to seriously wonder if you are wasting the prime years of an all-time great QB by failing to surround him with the necessary talent needed to win a super bowl. If that happens, you might see some changes.. otherwise I fear this franchise is just okay with winning the division and having a "chance" with a QB like Rodgers.

[crkone]

Adams is already slow so an ankle injury really amplifies his speed issues. He came out supposedly being a great route runner who can jump high but hasn't really shown anything. He's 22 so hopefully he develops sooner rather than later.

[Kerb Hohl]

New England, Cincinnati, Carolina, Denver, Arizona, Atlanta, Green Bay.

I'm not high on the Packer Kool-Aid right now, but I'm not sure if you just saw Blaine Gabbert win yesterday.

[ReasonablySober]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SI_DougFarrar/status/663761647119437824[/tweet]

DING DING DING.

[Kerb Hohl]

Piggybacking on Bern's last post from the actual game thread. I've seen probably 4-5 teams put a wall of 6-7 defensive backs/LBs in a straight line at 15 yards on 3rd and 18 several times this year. There's always the reasonable option to blitz. Why does Dom insist on rushing 3 and having several corners/LBs manning zones 5 yards past the LOS? I didn't get to watch that play again, so maybe I'm wrong.

[Flames24Rulz]

I just don't understand why we don't run any slant patterns any more on offense. It doesn't make any sense to me. With the OL struggling as much as they did yesterday, you'd think that they would try to get the ball out of #12's hands ASAP, but apparently not.

The defense is just a disaster right now. The pass rush that was there prior to the San Diego game has completely disappeared. The communication breakdowns in the secondary are prevalent again. And Dom Capers is still getting his three man rush on.

This team needs a blowout win in the worst way before Minnesota. Hopefully they can actually get it done.

[thomchatt3rton]

Piggybacking on Bern's last post from the actual game thread. I've seen probably 4-5 teams put a wall of 6-7 defensive backs/LBs in a straight line at 15 yards on 3rd and 18 several times this year. There's always the reasonable option to blitz. Why does Dom insist on rushing 3 and having several corners/LBs manning zones 5 yards past the LOS? I didn't get to watch that play again, so maybe I'm wrong.

Yeah if you're going to only rush 3, but then commit a DB to spy Newton, you might as well rush 4 and just maintain your gap discipline in the middle. I would think.

I'd like to see the stats on the "3rd and long-rush 3-prevent D" we use. It seems like it fails a lot but that could be just because when it does, it makes you feel sick to your stomach.
That might have been the play of the game- we get that stop, and the offense gets back on the field with some momentum and the chance to really close the gap and put a lot of pressure on CAR. Could have been a different ball game.