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What's up with Aaron?

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Re: What's up with Aaron? 

Post#41 » by humanrefutation » Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:27 pm

books wrote:More about Jordy than Aaron, but nice breakdown by Brady Poppinga, comparing a few plays with bad results this year to the same plays run successfully in the past. Jordy still mentally rehabbing the knee, and Janis screws a play up with a boneheaded route.

;feature=youtu.be


Thanks for sharing. Yeah, it's obvious that Jordy is still a bit tentative with his knee and groin. I hope that'll get better as the season goes. I mean, he's basically went about 21 months or so between game action, so it makes sense that he's a little rusty.

The Janis stuff has been evident for a while, and for all of those folks who constantly exclaim that Janis should play more, THIS IS WHY HE DOESN'T PLAY MORE. His head isn't in the game.
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Re: What's up with Aaron? 

Post#42 » by BUCKnation » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:28 pm

Wow that was bad from Janis. Good insight.
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Re: What's up with Aaron? 

Post#43 » by M-C-G » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:48 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
books wrote:More about Jordy than Aaron, but nice breakdown by Brady Poppinga, comparing a few plays with bad results this year to the same plays run successfully in the past. Jordy still mentally rehabbing the knee, and Janis screws a play up with a boneheaded route.

;feature=youtu.be


Thanks for sharing. Yeah, it's obvious that Jordy is still a bit tentative with his knee and groin. I hope that'll get better as the season goes. I mean, he's basically went about 21 months or so between game action, so it makes sense that he's a little rusty.

The Janis stuff has been evident for a while, and for all of those folks who constantly exclaim that Janis should play more, THIS IS WHY HE DOESN'T PLAY MORE. His head isn't in the game.


Good breakdown. As for Janis, this is what happens when you don't let a guy get on the field and actually run routes. Everyone knew that he wasn't a smart guy and he is a project at WR. So you see some times like the Browns with their dunce Josh Gordon simplify everyone for him. You see the Steelers simplify everything for Martavis Bryant their resident nincompoop, but we just don't get Janis out there running routes for three years. Of course he is going to make mistakes, doesn't mean you don't keep trying to develop that talent, it just means you have to find a sub set of things for Janis, Montgomery and Davis that they can do.

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Re: What's up with Aaron? 

Post#44 » by KidA24 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:57 pm

M-C-G wrote:Good breakdown. As for Janis, this is what happens when you don't let a guy get on the field and actually run routes. Everyone knew that he wasn't a smart guy and he is a project at WR. So you see some times like the Browns with their dunce Josh Gordon simplify everyone for him. You see the Steelers simplify everything for Martavis Bryant their resident nincompoop, but we just don't get Janis out there running routes for three years. Of course he is going to make mistakes, doesn't mean you don't keep trying to develop that talent, it just means you have to find a sub set of things for Janis, Montgomery and Davis that they can do.


Exactly. Your job as a coaching staff is to put players/team in the best possible position to succeed. Not to say "Here's my offense, run it the way I demand because I demand it be run that way."

It's like asking Lacy to run a toss sweep from the shotgun. It doesn't work. It's never worked. He cannot do it.... however, it's in the offense, so, the Packers consistently lost two yards running it.
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Re: What's up with Aaron? 

Post#45 » by humanrefutation » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:12 pm

M-C-G wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
books wrote:More about Jordy than Aaron, but nice breakdown by Brady Poppinga, comparing a few plays with bad results this year to the same plays run successfully in the past. Jordy still mentally rehabbing the knee, and Janis screws a play up with a boneheaded route.

;feature=youtu.be


Thanks for sharing. Yeah, it's obvious that Jordy is still a bit tentative with his knee and groin. I hope that'll get better as the season goes. I mean, he's basically went about 21 months or so between game action, so it makes sense that he's a little rusty.

The Janis stuff has been evident for a while, and for all of those folks who constantly exclaim that Janis should play more, THIS IS WHY HE DOESN'T PLAY MORE. His head isn't in the game.


Good breakdown. As for Janis, this is what happens when you don't let a guy get on the field and actually run routes. Everyone knew that he wasn't a smart guy and he is a project at WR. So you see some times like the Browns with their dunce Josh Gordon simplify everyone for him. You see the Steelers simplify everything for Martavis Bryant their resident nincompoop, but we just don't get Janis out there running routes for three years. Of course he is going to make mistakes, doesn't mean you don't keep trying to develop that talent, it just means you have to find a sub set of things for Janis, Montgomery and Davis that they can do.


I don't think it's that simple. I think the reason their offense flows is because there is thought and purpose behind every route and read. That has to be run efficiently in order for the timing to work and to manipulate the defense effectively. That video shows you what happens when the timing is off. Being even a heartbeat behind can make the difference between a touchdown and an interception. You try to "oversimplify," and you end up being easily discerned and schemed for. You try to oversimplify for one WR, and you impact what you can run for other WRs.

But even beyond that, they've had Janis on the roster for 3 years now. That's three years of offseasons, minicamps, practices, regular season games, and two seasons of playoff experience, all under the same offensive coaching staff. I find it highly unlikely that they haven't given Janis plenty of opportunity to learn and adapt. It's not like he has to memorize every route on the field. He just has to know his responsibility, and that route that was highlighted in Poppinga's video shows you the impact of him missing his assignment. There's a certain point where you have to "get it" in order to be a valuable contributor. If he hasn't got it yet, he's not going to see the field.
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Re: What's up with Aaron? 

Post#46 » by M-C-G » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:20 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
M-C-G wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
Thanks for sharing. Yeah, it's obvious that Jordy is still a bit tentative with his knee and groin. I hope that'll get better as the season goes. I mean, he's basically went about 21 months or so between game action, so it makes sense that he's a little rusty.

The Janis stuff has been evident for a while, and for all of those folks who constantly exclaim that Janis should play more, THIS IS WHY HE DOESN'T PLAY MORE. His head isn't in the game.


Good breakdown. As for Janis, this is what happens when you don't let a guy get on the field and actually run routes. Everyone knew that he wasn't a smart guy and he is a project at WR. So you see some times like the Browns with their dunce Josh Gordon simplify everyone for him. You see the Steelers simplify everything for Martavis Bryant their resident nincompoop, but we just don't get Janis out there running routes for three years. Of course he is going to make mistakes, doesn't mean you don't keep trying to develop that talent, it just means you have to find a sub set of things for Janis, Montgomery and Davis that they can do.


I don't think it's that simple. I think the reason their offense flows is because there is thought and purpose behind every route and read. That has to be run efficiently in order for the timing to work and to manipulate the defense effectively. That video shows you what happens when the timing is off. Being even a heartbeat behind can make the difference between a touchdown and an interception. You try to "oversimplify," and you end up being easily discerned and schemed for. You try to oversimplify for one WR, and you impact what you can run for other WRs.

But even beyond that, they've had Janis on the roster for 3 years now. That's three years of offseasons, minicamps, practices, regular season games, and two seasons of playoff experience, all under the same offensive coaching staff. I find it highly unlikely that they haven't given Janis plenty of opportunity to learn and adapt. It's not like he has to memorize every route on the field. He just has to know his responsibility, and that route that was highlighted in Poppinga's video shows you the impact of him missing his assignment. There's a certain point where you have to "get it" in order to be a valuable contributor. If he hasn't got it yet, he's not going to see the field.


What about Mac makes you think they have been adaptable in anyway? The same guy that for two years comes out every week and says it is the player and execution, never once the scheme. Maybe we need to finally admit our scheme, which may have been dependent on an elite, maybe godly QB play to be successful is no longer the correct scheme. Maybe the scheme needs to take a real **** look at the talent we have on the field and start to find ways to put in a position to do their thing.

I know some of you older guys remember early Mac, and we had what was described for a while as a YAC system. It was designed to get guys the ball with the opportunity to get YAC. Somewhere along the way we evolved in to the exact opposite, which was a "throw them open and get dropped on the spot" system. Our scheme is exposed, and it is up to our coaches to adjust now, but I fear they are completely incapable of change, because they are incapable of admitting their is an issue other than "execution"

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Re: What's up with Aaron? 

Post#47 » by M-C-G » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:23 pm

As for Rodgers, there is one question I would want to ask and hear him honestly answer. What has changed in your preparation, off season and off field routines between now and 2014. I honestly think the answer to that question is the one that leads to the "what's wrong with Aaron" question.

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Re: What's up with Aaron? 

Post#48 » by humanrefutation » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:44 pm

M-C-G wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
M-C-G wrote:
Good breakdown. As for Janis, this is what happens when you don't let a guy get on the field and actually run routes. Everyone knew that he wasn't a smart guy and he is a project at WR. So you see some times like the Browns with their dunce Josh Gordon simplify everyone for him. You see the Steelers simplify everything for Martavis Bryant their resident nincompoop, but we just don't get Janis out there running routes for three years. Of course he is going to make mistakes, doesn't mean you don't keep trying to develop that talent, it just means you have to find a sub set of things for Janis, Montgomery and Davis that they can do.


I don't think it's that simple. I think the reason their offense flows is because there is thought and purpose behind every route and read. That has to be run efficiently in order for the timing to work and to manipulate the defense effectively. That video shows you what happens when the timing is off. Being even a heartbeat behind can make the difference between a touchdown and an interception. You try to "oversimplify," and you end up being easily discerned and schemed for. You try to oversimplify for one WR, and you impact what you can run for other WRs.

But even beyond that, they've had Janis on the roster for 3 years now. That's three years of offseasons, minicamps, practices, regular season games, and two seasons of playoff experience, all under the same offensive coaching staff. I find it highly unlikely that they haven't given Janis plenty of opportunity to learn and adapt. It's not like he has to memorize every route on the field. He just has to know his responsibility, and that route that was highlighted in Poppinga's video shows you the impact of him missing his assignment. There's a certain point where you have to "get it" in order to be a valuable contributor. If he hasn't got it yet, he's not going to see the field.


What about Mac makes you think they have been adaptable in anyway? The same guy that for two years comes out every week and says it is the player and execution, never once the scheme. Maybe we need to finally admit our scheme, which may have been dependent on an elite, maybe godly QB play to be successful is no longer the correct scheme. Maybe the scheme needs to take a real **** look at the talent we have on the field and start to find ways to put in a position to do their thing.

I know some of you older guys remember early Mac, and we had what was described for a while as a YAC system. It was designed to get guys the ball with the opportunity to get YAC. Somewhere along the way we evolved in to the exact opposite, which was a "throw them open and get dropped on the spot" system. Our scheme is exposed, and it is up to our coaches to adjust now, but I fear they are completely incapable of change, because they are incapable of admitting their is an issue other than "execution"


We're talking about two different things here. Saying that the scheme needs a refresh is one conversation, saying that they have to make their scheme simpler for Janis is a whole 'nother conversation. The reason why I don't think the scheme is why Janis is failing is because Janis seems to be the only receiver to struggle with running his damn route with precision and accuracy, even when the offense was humming in 2014-early 2015.

You want to discuss broader scheme concepts, that's all fine with me. But I wasn't really talking about that when it came to Janis. As Kurt Warner put it last year, the Packers run some of the simplest pass concepts in the league. If Janis can't get those concepts, I don't know what makes anyone think he'll get a more complicated system.
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Re: What's up with Aaron? 

Post#49 » by M-C-G » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:00 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
M-C-G wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
I don't think it's that simple. I think the reason their offense flows is because there is thought and purpose behind every route and read. That has to be run efficiently in order for the timing to work and to manipulate the defense effectively. That video shows you what happens when the timing is off. Being even a heartbeat behind can make the difference between a touchdown and an interception. You try to "oversimplify," and you end up being easily discerned and schemed for. You try to oversimplify for one WR, and you impact what you can run for other WRs.

But even beyond that, they've had Janis on the roster for 3 years now. That's three years of offseasons, minicamps, practices, regular season games, and two seasons of playoff experience, all under the same offensive coaching staff. I find it highly unlikely that they haven't given Janis plenty of opportunity to learn and adapt. It's not like he has to memorize every route on the field. He just has to know his responsibility, and that route that was highlighted in Poppinga's video shows you the impact of him missing his assignment. There's a certain point where you have to "get it" in order to be a valuable contributor. If he hasn't got it yet, he's not going to see the field.


What about Mac makes you think they have been adaptable in anyway? The same guy that for two years comes out every week and says it is the player and execution, never once the scheme. Maybe we need to finally admit our scheme, which may have been dependent on an elite, maybe godly QB play to be successful is no longer the correct scheme. Maybe the scheme needs to take a real **** look at the talent we have on the field and start to find ways to put in a position to do their thing.

I know some of you older guys remember early Mac, and we had what was described for a while as a YAC system. It was designed to get guys the ball with the opportunity to get YAC. Somewhere along the way we evolved in to the exact opposite, which was a "throw them open and get dropped on the spot" system. Our scheme is exposed, and it is up to our coaches to adjust now, but I fear they are completely incapable of change, because they are incapable of admitting their is an issue other than "execution"


We're talking about two different things here. Saying that the scheme needs a refresh is one conversation, saying that they have to make their scheme simpler for Janis is a whole 'nother conversation. The reason why I don't think the scheme is why Janis is failing is because Janis seems to be the only receiver to struggle with running his damn route with precision and accuracy, even when the offense was humming in 2014-early 2015.

You want to discuss broader scheme concepts, that's all fine with me. But I wasn't really talking about that when it came to Janis. As Kurt Warner put it last year, the Packers run some of the simplest pass concepts in the league. If Janis can't get those concepts, I don't know what makes anyone think he'll get a more complicated system.


No, I am saying that it is time to adjust our schemes to the talents and capabilities of team. Janis is a microcosm of the larger issue and every team has a Janis, they might not play WR, but it is up to the staff to figure out how to use them.

In regards to the underlined, this is just false. Every one of our damn receivers have struggled to get open running their routes, but admittedly it has gotten better this year.

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Re: What's up with Aaron? 

Post#50 » by humanrefutation » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:28 pm

M-C-G wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
M-C-G wrote:
What about Mac makes you think they have been adaptable in anyway? The same guy that for two years comes out every week and says it is the player and execution, never once the scheme. Maybe we need to finally admit our scheme, which may have been dependent on an elite, maybe godly QB play to be successful is no longer the correct scheme. Maybe the scheme needs to take a real **** look at the talent we have on the field and start to find ways to put in a position to do their thing.

I know some of you older guys remember early Mac, and we had what was described for a while as a YAC system. It was designed to get guys the ball with the opportunity to get YAC. Somewhere along the way we evolved in to the exact opposite, which was a "throw them open and get dropped on the spot" system. Our scheme is exposed, and it is up to our coaches to adjust now, but I fear they are completely incapable of change, because they are incapable of admitting their is an issue other than "execution"


We're talking about two different things here. Saying that the scheme needs a refresh is one conversation, saying that they have to make their scheme simpler for Janis is a whole 'nother conversation. The reason why I don't think the scheme is why Janis is failing is because Janis seems to be the only receiver to struggle with running his damn route with precision and accuracy, even when the offense was humming in 2014-early 2015.

You want to discuss broader scheme concepts, that's all fine with me. But I wasn't really talking about that when it came to Janis. As Kurt Warner put it last year, the Packers run some of the simplest pass concepts in the league. If Janis can't get those concepts, I don't know what makes anyone think he'll get a more complicated system.


No, I am saying that it is time to adjust our schemes to the talents and capabilities of team. Janis is a microcosm of the larger issue and every team has a Janis, they might not play WR, but it is up to the staff to figure out how to use them.

In regards to the underlined, this is just false. Every one of our damn receivers have struggled to get open running their routes, but admittedly it has gotten better this year.


Nah, it's not false. Again, there's a difference between designing an effective scheme, and actually implementing that scheme. You're arguing about better design. I'm arguing that Janis is incapable of implementing a scheme that features the simplest pass concepts in the league, and even when the offense was going well (which you didn't underline for some reason).

For example, Cobb and Jordy and Adams and Montgomery and Rodgers and Cook all manage to get significant playing time and run correct routes. Their timing might be a bit off, or they might not be getting open, or they might drop the pass, but that doesn't mean that they aren't running the correct routes.

You want to design better routes? Better schemes? Let's talk about that. But Jeff Janis isn't seeing playing time because he isn't doing what is expected, and if you can't run the right route, you're going to **** up the whole scheme no matter how good it is.
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Re: What's up with Aaron? 

Post#51 » by M-C-G » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:32 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
M-C-G wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
We're talking about two different things here. Saying that the scheme needs a refresh is one conversation, saying that they have to make their scheme simpler for Janis is a whole 'nother conversation. The reason why I don't think the scheme is why Janis is failing is because Janis seems to be the only receiver to struggle with running his damn route with precision and accuracy, even when the offense was humming in 2014-early 2015.

You want to discuss broader scheme concepts, that's all fine with me. But I wasn't really talking about that when it came to Janis. As Kurt Warner put it last year, the Packers run some of the simplest pass concepts in the league. If Janis can't get those concepts, I don't know what makes anyone think he'll get a more complicated system.


No, I am saying that it is time to adjust our schemes to the talents and capabilities of team. Janis is a microcosm of the larger issue and every team has a Janis, they might not play WR, but it is up to the staff to figure out how to use them.

In regards to the underlined, this is just false. Every one of our damn receivers have struggled to get open running their routes, but admittedly it has gotten better this year.


Nah, it's not false. Again, there's a difference between designing an effective scheme, and actually implementing that scheme. You're arguing about better design. I'm arguing that Janis is incapable of implementing a scheme that features the simplest pass concepts in the league, and even when the offense was going well (which you didn't underline for some reason).

For example, Cobb and Jordy and Adams and Montgomery and Rodgers and Cook all manage to get significant playing time and run correct routes. Their timing might be a bit off, or they might not be getting open, but that doesn't mean that they aren't running the correct routes.

You want to design better routes? Better schemes? Let's talk about that. But Jeff Janis isn't seeing playing time because he isn't doing what is expected, and if you can't run the right route, you're going to **** up the whole scheme no matter how good it is.


We are getting into some kind of circular logic which is pointless to debate any further. I'll just reiterate what I want. Change the scheme or plays or whatever to use the guys you have to take advantage of their strengths and weaknesses. If that means when Janis is in the game he can only run a go route, than let him do that 5 times a game like they did with Martavis Bryant. Even if the guy can't run any other route use what he has to open things up for everyone else. If Ty Montgomery is your best YAC guy, don't run all back shoulder routes, get him running YAC plays. It's tailoring the offense to what you have, not tailoring what you have because of your offense.

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Re: What's up with Aaron? 

Post#52 » by Iheartfootball » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:24 pm

M-C-G wrote:As for Rodgers, there is one question I would want to ask and hear him honestly answer. What has changed in your preparation, off season and off field routines between now and 2014. I honestly think the answer to that question is the one that leads to the "what's wrong with Aaron" question.


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Re: RE: Re: What's up with Aaron? 

Post#53 » by humanrefutation » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:07 am

M-C-G wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
M-C-G wrote:
No, I am saying that it is time to adjust our schemes to the talents and capabilities of team. Janis is a microcosm of the larger issue and every team has a Janis, they might not play WR, but it is up to the staff to figure out how to use them.

In regards to the underlined, this is just false. Every one of our damn receivers have struggled to get open running their routes, but admittedly it has gotten better this year.


Nah, it's not false. Again, there's a difference between designing an effective scheme, and actually implementing that scheme. You're arguing about better design. I'm arguing that Janis is incapable of implementing a scheme that features the simplest pass concepts in the league, and even when the offense was going well (which you didn't underline for some reason).

For example, Cobb and Jordy and Adams and Montgomery and Rodgers and Cook all manage to get significant playing time and run correct routes. Their timing might be a bit off, or they might not be getting open, but that doesn't mean that they aren't running the correct routes.

You want to design better routes? Better schemes? Let's talk about that. But Jeff Janis isn't seeing playing time because he isn't doing what is expected, and if you can't run the right route, you're going to **** up the whole scheme no matter how good it is.


We are getting into some kind of circular logic which is pointless to debate any further. I'll just reiterate what I want. Change the scheme or plays or whatever to use the guys you have to take advantage of their strengths and weaknesses. If that means when Janis is in the game he can only run a go route, than let him do that 5 times a game like they did with Martavis Bryant. Even if the guy can't run any other route use what he has to open things up for everyone else. If Ty Montgomery is your best YAC guy, don't run all back shoulder routes, get him running YAC plays. It's tailoring the offense to what you have, not tailoring what you have because of your offense.

Yeah and the problem with the "Let Janis run Go Routes!" argument is that teams will obviously scheme for that. It's not like Martavis Bryant runs the same route over and over. This isn't Madden. That doesn't work.

An effective scheme works when every player works in concert with one another and Janis has shown the inability to do his job.

That isn't to say that they couldn't define a more effective scheme broadly, though. I think McCarthy is too stubborn in that regard, but he's had an excellent offense for 9 years here before they struggled last season, so I can get why he is tied to his approach.
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Re: What's up with Aaron? 

Post#54 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:17 am

KidA24 wrote:
M-C-G wrote:Good breakdown. As for Janis, this is what happens when you don't let a guy get on the field and actually run routes. Everyone knew that he wasn't a smart guy and he is a project at WR. So you see some times like the Browns with their dunce Josh Gordon simplify everyone for him. You see the Steelers simplify everything for Martavis Bryant their resident nincompoop, but we just don't get Janis out there running routes for three years. Of course he is going to make mistakes, doesn't mean you don't keep trying to develop that talent, it just means you have to find a sub set of things for Janis, Montgomery and Davis that they can do.


Exactly. Your job as a coaching staff is to put players/team in the best possible position to succeed. Not to say "Here's my offense, run it the way I demand because I demand it be run that way."

It's like asking Lacy to run a toss sweep from the shotgun. It doesn't work. It's never worked. He cannot do it.... however, it's in the offense, so, the Packers consistently lost two yards running it.

It's like having Lacy run a sweep, the line blocking for a sweep and Lacy running up the middle. If Janis is too dumb to learn the plays he shouldn't be out there. A Hail Mary might work out once in a while but if that's the only play you can count on from Janis than defenses will adjust.

There was a play in the last game in a hurry up situation and Janis held up the play because he didn't know what he was supposed to do. If he was a rookie, fine it happens. But it's been three years of practice and he is supposed to magically learn in game now?
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Re: What's up with Aaron? 

Post#55 » by th87 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:57 am

rilamann wrote:Remember Nick Anderson in the NBA, consistent solid player and borderline all star for a number of years with the Orlando Magic. Then he choked pretty hard in game 1 of the '95 NBA finals and the Magic went on to lose the series. After that he was a shadow of his solid consistent self until he could no longer make an NBA roster.

I have a couple theory's,but my strongest theory is that the 2014 NFC Championship game in Seattle pretty much Nick Anderson'd Aaron Rodgers.

Literally my first thought when that game ended was ''This team (Packers) will never be the same after this''. Especially for a team that was already weak/fragile mentally. The fact that the Packers weren't a strong team mentally is WHY that choke happened in the first place.

In pro sports it doesn't take much for a dog to lose its bite.Looking like Aaron Godgers and looking like....Aaron Rodgers.is a very fine line if you lose even a little bit confidence or you start thinking just a little too much on the field.

It's stuff like that why you see guys who look incredible in college and then can't stick on a pro roster past the first week of a training camp.


Ha I already beat you to the Nick Anderson reference.

If you give up a historical collapse like that, how can you respect the guys you felt were responsible for it? For Rodgers, I'm sure he looks at MM that way to some extent. Even I kind of hate the Packers for making me go through that.
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Re: What's up with Aaron? 

Post#56 » by humanrefutation » Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:00 pm

th87 wrote:
rilamann wrote:Remember Nick Anderson in the NBA, consistent solid player and borderline all star for a number of years with the Orlando Magic. Then he choked pretty hard in game 1 of the '95 NBA finals and the Magic went on to lose the series. After that he was a shadow of his solid consistent self until he could no longer make an NBA roster.

I have a couple theory's,but my strongest theory is that the 2014 NFC Championship game in Seattle pretty much Nick Anderson'd Aaron Rodgers.

Literally my first thought when that game ended was ''This team (Packers) will never be the same after this''. Especially for a team that was already weak/fragile mentally. The fact that the Packers weren't a strong team mentally is WHY that choke happened in the first place.

In pro sports it doesn't take much for a dog to lose its bite.Looking like Aaron Godgers and looking like....Aaron Rodgers.is a very fine line if you lose even a little bit confidence or you start thinking just a little too much on the field.

It's stuff like that why you see guys who look incredible in college and then can't stick on a pro roster past the first week of a training camp.


Ha I already beat you to the Nick Anderson reference.

If you give up a historical collapse like that, how can you respect the guys you felt were responsible for it? For Rodgers, I'm sure he looks at MM that way to some extent. Even I kind of hate the Packers for making me go through that.


I think that's possible. But I'd be more inclined to believe that if Rodgers was directly responsible for that loss (like he had a terrible turnover late in a tight game or something, ala Favre in 2003 @ PHI, 2008 v. NYG, 2010 v. NO, etc etc) and if they didn't start well in 2015.

I mean, and I hate to go back there, but they played so **** well for 95% of the game on the road against a defending SB champion that had our number, even as Rodgers was still hobbled with a calf injury and barely able to scramble. The catharsis of winning that came would have been absolutely epic, which made the loss that much more devastating.
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Re: What's up with Aaron? 

Post#57 » by rilamann » Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:40 pm

th87 wrote:
rilamann wrote:Remember Nick Anderson in the NBA, consistent solid player and borderline all star for a number of years with the Orlando Magic. Then he choked pretty hard in game 1 of the '95 NBA finals and the Magic went on to lose the series. After that he was a shadow of his solid consistent self until he could no longer make an NBA roster.

I have a couple theory's,but my strongest theory is that the 2014 NFC Championship game in Seattle pretty much Nick Anderson'd Aaron Rodgers.

Literally my first thought when that game ended was ''This team (Packers) will never be the same after this''. Especially for a team that was already weak/fragile mentally. The fact that the Packers weren't a strong team mentally is WHY that choke happened in the first place.

In pro sports it doesn't take much for a dog to lose its bite.Looking like Aaron Godgers and looking like....Aaron Rodgers.is a very fine line if you lose even a little bit confidence or you start thinking just a little too much on the field.

It's stuff like that why you see guys who look incredible in college and then can't stick on a pro roster past the first week of a training camp.


Ha I already beat you to the Nick Anderson reference.

If you give up a historical collapse like that, how can you respect the guys you felt were responsible for it? For Rodgers, I'm sure he looks at MM that way to some extent. Even I kind of hate the Packers for making me go through that.


Great minds think alike lol.

My other theory kinda plays into the Nick Anderson'd one,which is what you brought up here.Rodgers might have lost respect and confidence in McCarthy after that Seattle game,or maybe that game was the straw that broke the caramel's' back.

Think about it,McCarthy actually went into that game with a pretty solid game plan and the Packers STILL lost because McCarthy is a clueless game day coach,always has been.Rodgers probably looks at McCarthy and feels like they have no chance.I know that's how I feel when I look at McCarthy as a fan and I've felt that way long before the Seattle game.

If you want to see a clown and you don't feel like going to the circus watch Mike McCarthy coach in a big game.
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Re: What's up with Aaron? 

Post#58 » by th87 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:08 pm

..
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Re: What's up with Aaron? 

Post#59 » by th87 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:08 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
th87 wrote:
rilamann wrote:Remember Nick Anderson in the NBA, consistent solid player and borderline all star for a number of years with the Orlando Magic. Then he choked pretty hard in game 1 of the '95 NBA finals and the Magic went on to lose the series. After that he was a shadow of his solid consistent self until he could no longer make an NBA roster.

I have a couple theory's,but my strongest theory is that the 2014 NFC Championship game in Seattle pretty much Nick Anderson'd Aaron Rodgers.

Literally my first thought when that game ended was ''This team (Packers) will never be the same after this''. Especially for a team that was already weak/fragile mentally. The fact that the Packers weren't a strong team mentally is WHY that choke happened in the first place.

In pro sports it doesn't take much for a dog to lose its bite.Looking like Aaron Godgers and looking like....Aaron Rodgers.is a very fine line if you lose even a little bit confidence or you start thinking just a little too much on the field.

It's stuff like that why you see guys who look incredible in college and then can't stick on a pro roster past the first week of a training camp.


Ha I already beat you to the Nick Anderson reference.

If you give up a historical collapse like that, how can you respect the guys you felt were responsible for it? For Rodgers, I'm sure he looks at MM that way to some extent. Even I kind of hate the Packers for making me go through that.


I think that's possible. But I'd be more inclined to believe that if Rodgers was directly responsible for that loss (like he had a terrible turnover late in a tight game or something, ala Favre in 2003 @ PHI, 2008 v. NYG, 2010 v. NO, etc etc) and if they didn't start well in 2015.

I mean, and I hate to go back there, but they played so **** well for 95% of the game on the road against a defending SB champion that had our number, even as Rodgers was still hobbled with a calf injury and barely able to scramble. The catharsis of winning that came would have been absolutely epic, which made the loss that much more devastating.


Rodgers didn't play well at all. Two interceptions deep in Seattle territory - the first one anticipating an offside jump without actually seeing whether a flag was thrown, and the second a pass to no one. And then general futility in scoring in the RZ and putting the game away. And that too with Earl Thomas and Richard Sherman virtually dead.
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Re: What's up with Aaron? 

Post#60 » by th87 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:18 pm

rilamann wrote:
th87 wrote:
rilamann wrote:Remember Nick Anderson in the NBA, consistent solid player and borderline all star for a number of years with the Orlando Magic. Then he choked pretty hard in game 1 of the '95 NBA finals and the Magic went on to lose the series. After that he was a shadow of his solid consistent self until he could no longer make an NBA roster.

I have a couple theory's,but my strongest theory is that the 2014 NFC Championship game in Seattle pretty much Nick Anderson'd Aaron Rodgers.

Literally my first thought when that game ended was ''This team (Packers) will never be the same after this''. Especially for a team that was already weak/fragile mentally. The fact that the Packers weren't a strong team mentally is WHY that choke happened in the first place.

In pro sports it doesn't take much for a dog to lose its bite.Looking like Aaron Godgers and looking like....Aaron Rodgers.is a very fine line if you lose even a little bit confidence or you start thinking just a little too much on the field.

It's stuff like that why you see guys who look incredible in college and then can't stick on a pro roster past the first week of a training camp.


Ha I already beat you to the Nick Anderson reference.

If you give up a historical collapse like that, how can you respect the guys you felt were responsible for it? For Rodgers, I'm sure he looks at MM that way to some extent. Even I kind of hate the Packers for making me go through that.


Great minds think alike lol.

My other theory kinda plays into the Nick Anderson'd one,which is what you brought up here.Rodgers might have lost respect and confidence in McCarthy after that Seattle game,or maybe that game was the straw that broke the caramel's' back.

Think about it,McCarthy actually went into that game with a pretty solid game plan and the Packers STILL lost because McCarthy is a clueless game day coach,always has been.Rodgers probably looks at McCarthy and feels like they have no chance.I know that's how I feel when I look at McCarthy as a fan and I've felt that way long before the Seattle game.

If you want to see a clown and you don't feel like going to the circus watch Mike McCarthy coach in a big game.


When I think about it, I just think maybe the Packers don't deserve my fandom haha.

They managed to lose a game in which Russell Wilson did his best Jake Delhomme against the Cardinals impression, with their best defensive players severely limited. For them not to smell blood and just throw the kitchen sink at them, and instead play the defense/ball control game (when we're not a defense/ball control team) is just baffling to me. I'm sure the team thinks back in the same way, like WTF. We were dropping 50s on dudes throughout the season, which is what got us to this point, but now, let's play tight and conservative and let this untrustworthy defense that could break at any time (and I was worried it was only a matter of time) win us this game.

How could they not resent the management for that?

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