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Fire MM and TT/ MM: Silverstein Article, Page 8

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Fire MM and TT/ MM: Silverstein Article, Page 8 

Post#1 » by msiris » Mon Nov 7, 2016 5:12 am

The last time I posted a thread like this is when we won the Super Bowl after a slow start. Just sick of the same old stuff.
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Re: Fire MM and TT 

Post#2 » by trwi7 » Mon Nov 7, 2016 5:25 am

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Re: Fire MM and TT 

Post#3 » by VooDoo7 » Mon Nov 7, 2016 5:47 am

It's time for some new blood and ideas.

Things have gotten way too stale and predictable.
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Re: Fire MM and TT 

Post#4 » by HKPackFan » Mon Nov 7, 2016 7:48 am

Not quite a hotseat article but at least someone is talking about MM's job security.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/if-packers-miss-playoffs-could-major-changes-be-coming-013224354.html
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Re: Fire MM and TT 

Post#5 » by GBPackers47 » Mon Nov 7, 2016 2:10 pm

HKPackFan wrote:Not quite a hotseat article but at least someone is talking about MM's job security.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/if-packers-miss-playoffs-could-major-changes-be-coming-013224354.html


It's good that some conversation is starting to happen, but in all honesty, the headline should be If the Packers don't WIN THE SUPERBOWL, Major Changes could be coming. We've made the playoffs every year since we won the Super Bowl, only to fall short every single time. Let's not forget that two of the years, Rodgers was the MVP of the entire league. I understand winning the Super Bowl is difficult, but we've had major collapse after major collapse. We should have at least been in one more Super Bowl since 2010. It's evident things can't remain as they are, so the question then becomes, Mike McCarthy or Aaron Rodgers? We all know what the Packers should do there.
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Re: Fire MM and TT 

Post#6 » by MickeyDavis » Mon Nov 7, 2016 2:39 pm

The odds of getting 3 great QB's in a row are slim to none. I'd really like to see what a new GM/Coach combo can do during the final phase of Rodgers' career. I don't think TT makes a change. Murphy won't order TT to make a change. So Murphy has to pull the plug on TT and let Wolf pick a new coach. Maybe Wolf is a big MM fan, no one really knows.

The last 20 games have been dismal for the most part. A coach and coaching staff that can't recognize that changes need to be made, both in the original game plan and especially DURING the game, need to be replaced.

I'm afraid we'll end up 9-7, make the playoffs, and nothing will change.
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Re: Fire MM and TT 

Post#7 » by ak7 » Mon Nov 7, 2016 2:45 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:The odds of getting 3 great QB's in a row are slim to none. I'd really like to see what a new GM/Coach combo can do during the final phase of Rodgers' career. I don't think TT makes a change. Murphy won't order TT to make a change. So Murphy has to pull the plug on TT and let Wolf pick a new coach. Maybe Wolf is a big MM fan, no one really knows.

The last 20 games have been dismal for the most part. A coach and coaching staff that can't recognize that changes need to be made, both in the original game plan and especially DURING the game, need to be replaced.

I'm afraid we'll end up 9-7, make the playoffs, and nothing will change.


I mean, what happens after they make changes? Is the new regime coming from in-house where schemes will be tweaked for the better? Or is the Packers offense going to learn a new system under an outsider?

If they do decide to make a coaching change, they'd have to tread very carefully or they could waste more years as the offense adjusts to the new offense. They're in a tough spot due to the point in Rodgers' career that we are currently in.

People keep saying it's the scheme, but honestly, why is the fact that we have receivers who can't get open in man coverage with the best play extender in the league not more of an issue? At some point, I feel we just need to understand that this team just isn't that talented anymore.
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Re: Fire MM and TT 

Post#8 » by msiris » Mon Nov 7, 2016 2:48 pm

And I also believe that you can not just depend mostly on the draft. Has to be a be a better mix of FAs and drafting. And some of the contracts they have handed out are not very good. Sam Shields is a good example. I fear that the Packers care more about the money than anything else. Also they care more about personality than talent.
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Re: Fire MM and TT 

Post#9 » by GBPackers47 » Mon Nov 7, 2016 3:03 pm

ak7 wrote:
MickeyDavis wrote:The odds of getting 3 great QB's in a row are slim to none. I'd really like to see what a new GM/Coach combo can do during the final phase of Rodgers' career. I don't think TT makes a change. Murphy won't order TT to make a change. So Murphy has to pull the plug on TT and let Wolf pick a new coach. Maybe Wolf is a big MM fan, no one really knows.

The last 20 games have been dismal for the most part. A coach and coaching staff that can't recognize that changes need to be made, both in the original game plan and especially DURING the game, need to be replaced.

I'm afraid we'll end up 9-7, make the playoffs, and nothing will change.


I mean, what happens after they make changes? Is the new regime coming from in-house where schemes will be tweaked for the better? Or is the Packers offense going to learn a new system under an outsider?

If they do decide to make a coaching change, they'd have to tread very carefully or they could waste more years as the offense adjusts to the new offense. They're in a tough spot due to the point in Rodgers' career that we are currently in.

People keep saying it's the scheme, but honestly, why is the fact that we have receivers who can't get open in man coverage with the best play extender in the league not more of an issue? At some point, I feel we just need to understand that this team just isn't that talented anymore.


It's not that they aren't talented. It's just that they aren't talented enough for the specific plays we're calling. We keep running this garbage 3 WR, 1 TE set where the receivers are running incredibly basic routes, and ultimately expected to beat their man. The problem is teams know this, so they just aren't bringing a ton of pressure. They can easily drop an extra man into coverage which makes the basic routes even more difficult to convert than they already are. Our receivers just aren't what they used to be a few years ago, where plays like that might have worked, but that doesn't mean they aren't any good. It just means we aren't putting our players in the best situation to succeed based on what they are good at. Our offensive line has been one of the highlights of the year, but it seems like Rodgers moves out of the pocket on every play. There's no reason why we moved away from what was working against the Bears and Falcons, where the offense looked like it should. This is my major qualm with McCarthy. He's either incapable or unwilling to stick with what works. He keeps reverting back to what he wants to work. Yes some of the blame should fall on the shoulders of our players, but this is not a talent-less team. They just need to be put in situations to succeed.
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Re: Fire MM and TT 

Post#10 » by FAH1223 » Mon Nov 7, 2016 3:26 pm

With a 33 year old QB, let Elliot Wolf take the reins... hire his own HC... this team needs a fresh start badly.
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Re: RE: Re: Fire MM and TT 

Post#11 » by Rockmaninoff » Mon Nov 7, 2016 3:29 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:The odds of getting 3 great QB's in a row are slim to none. I'd really like to see what a new GM/Coach combo can do during the final phase of Rodgers' career. I don't think TT makes a change. Murphy won't order TT to make a change. So Murphy has to pull the plug on TT and let Wolf pick a new coach. Maybe Wolf is a big MM fan, no one really knows.

The last 20 games have been dismal for the most part. A coach and coaching staff that can't recognize that changes need to be made, both in the original game plan and especially DURING the game, need to be replaced.

I'm afraid we'll end up 9-7, make the playoffs, and nothing will change.

I think we have a perfect storm this season, with 10 or so other NFC teams that have the potential to finish 9-7 or better. Not sure that's going to be enough without some convoluted tie breaker. Unless they win the division, of course.
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Re: Fire MM and TT 

Post#12 » by MickeyDavis » Mon Nov 7, 2016 3:50 pm

I certainly understand that a new coaching staff is no guarantee of success. But in football you adapt or die. This coach doesn't seem to be able to adapt.
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Re: Fire MM and TT 

Post#13 » by El Duderino » Mon Nov 7, 2016 8:32 pm

FAH1223 wrote:With a 33 year old QB, let Elliot Wolf take the reins... hire his own HC... this team needs a fresh start badly.


The front office has had a brain drain.

McKenkie left and has turned around the Raiders.

Dorsey is doing well as GM in KC and Schneider as GM in Seattle.

I fear that Wolf will get poached before Ted retires.

Ted isn't a bad GM, but it would be nice to have a whole new regime next year with Wolf as GM and allowing him to hire a new head coach of his choosing. Breathe some new life into this franchise.

Not gonna happen though.
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Re: Fire MM and TT 

Post#14 » by jlyons043 » Tue Nov 8, 2016 12:38 am

This offense needs more athletes ASAP. From WR1 all the way to Perillo, RR, and Lacy, we're just not a very athletic offense IMO. The obvious exception to me is Monty, he's without a doubt the best player we have with the ball in his hands. He's quick enough, and strong enough to make guys miss/break tackles. But outside of him it's ugly.

Here's our guys YAC per reception

Cobb - 41 receptions, 5.5 YAC per reception
Adams - 44 receptions, 3.3 YAC per reception
Ty - 23 receptions, 6.3 YAC per reception
Jordy - 38 receptions, 2.9 YAC per reception
Starks - 6 receptions, 9.8 YAC per reception
RR - 15 receptions, 2.8 YAC per reception
Lacy - 4 receptions, 10.3 YAC per reception
Cook - 5 Receptions, 4.3 YAC per reception

Only 7 teams have a worse average. And what's notable here is how ridiculously low are two main outside threats are
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Re: Fire MM and TT 

Post#15 » by th87 » Tue Nov 8, 2016 7:41 am

TT's drafts haven't produced as many top-end players lately.

From 2005-2010:

Rodgers, Collins, Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Finley, Sitton, Raji, Matthews, Lang, Bulaga, Burnett

2011-Present

Cobb, Perry(?), Hayward, Daniels, Lacy, Bakhtiari, Tretter, HHCD, Adams, Montgomery

The early guys are far better players, and none besides Raji were picked high.
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Re: Fire MM and TT 

Post#16 » by Balls2TheWalls » Tue Nov 8, 2016 4:56 pm

th87 wrote:TT's drafts haven't produced as many top-end players lately.

From 2005-2010:

Rodgers, Collins, Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Finley, Sitton, Raji, Matthews, Lang, Bulaga, Burnett

2011-Present

Cobb, Perry(?), Hayward, Daniels, Lacy, Bakhtiari, Tretter, HHCD, Adams, Montgomery

The early guys are far better players, and none besides Raji were picked high.


I truly believe your feelings about the new age players are a product of how they are being used by the coaching staff. If Montgomery or Cobb were on the patriots, they would be lauded as incredibly dynamic players. McCarthy had a system that people weren't ready for, but now he is figured out and it is making players with a lot of talent look untalented. We need someone running new systems. An offense capable of scheming players open and a defense capable of scheming pass pressure without exotic blitzing. Ted is giving them talent. Mike and Dom are squandering it.
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Re: Fire MM and TT 

Post#17 » by Wooderson » Tue Nov 8, 2016 5:35 pm

McCarthys obsession with throwing the ball short to our slowest/worst YAC guys is baffling. First it was Dick Rod and now Davante. Playing to your guys strengths is a difficult concept for MM.
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Re: RE: Re: Fire MM and TT 

Post#18 » by RRyder823 » Tue Nov 8, 2016 7:03 pm

El Duderino wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:With a 33 year old QB, let Elliot Wolf take the reins... hire his own HC... this team needs a fresh start badly.


The front office has had a brain drain.

McKenkie left and has turned around the Raiders.

Dorsey is doing well as GM in KC and Schneider as GM in Seattle.

I fear that Wolf will get poached before Ted retires.

Ted isn't a bad GM, but it would be nice to have a whole new regime next year with Wolf as GM and allowing him to hire a new head coach of his choosing. Breathe some new life into this franchise.

Not gonna happen though.

TT has said he has an idea on when he's going to retire and that it's not to far away and the Packers look to have the succession plan in place.

I wouldn't be worried about Wolf getting poached before that happens with them constantly upping his title and role.

Whether he takes over next year or the year after is the question.

If they continue to struggle I'm all for canning MM but to my eye TT has put more then enough talent on this team to compete. If MM can't mold that talent then move on. But I wouldn't be so quick to call for TTs head.

Not that I think that's what you were necessarily doing there but if the idea is for "fresh blood" then it's all about a head coaching change as the GM in question, (Wolf), taking over has allready been here for some time

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Re: RE: Re: Fire MM and TT 

Post#19 » by El Duderino » Tue Nov 8, 2016 8:39 pm

RRyder823 wrote:
El Duderino wrote:
The front office has had a brain drain.

McKenkie left and has turned around the Raiders.

Dorsey is doing well as GM in KC and Schneider as GM in Seattle.

I fear that Wolf will get poached before Ted retires.

Ted isn't a bad GM, but it would be nice to have a whole new regime next year with Wolf as GM and allowing him to hire a new head coach of his choosing. Breathe some new life into this franchise.

Not gonna happen though.

TT has said he has an idea on when he's going to retire and that it's not to far away and the Packers look to have the succession plan in place.

I wouldn't be worried about Wolf getting poached before that happens with them constantly upping his title and role.

Whether he takes over next year or the year after is the question.

If they continue to struggle I'm all for canning MM but to my eye TT has put more then enough talent on this team to compete. If MM can't mold that talent then move on. But I wouldn't be so quick to call for TTs head.

Not that I think that's what you were necessarily doing there but if the idea is for "fresh blood" then it's all about a head coaching change as the GM in question, (Wolf), taking over has allready been here for some time


1. You are assuming Ted will make a coaching change after the season if the team misses the playoffs or say finishes 9-7 or 10-6, makes the playoffs, but get bounced early. As conservative as Ted is, i wouldn't assume that at all. I think he likes very much that McCarthy is so on board with Ted's build almost entirely via the draft philosophy.

2. Ted hasn't hinted at retirement at all. The guy isn't married and has no kids. Being GM seems like his life mainly and if say he wants to continue in that role another 2-3 years or longer, Wolf isn't going to want to sit around forever waiting for Ted to retire if other teams show interest in him for a GM role.

FWIW, I won't claim to know what's been said behind the scenes with Ted, Wolf, and Murphy. I'm not a Thompson hater either, but he has as much authority as any GM in football. There is no owner breathing down his neck telling him to do this or that. This is his show entirely and thus bears his share of blame for only one Super Bowl appearance. It's not just coaching as an explanation and besides that, it's Ted who hired McCarthy and as kept him as coach this whole time. An owner hasn't forced that on Thompson.
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Re: Fire MM and TT 

Post#20 » by Ron Swanson » Tue Nov 8, 2016 10:35 pm

If the Packers miss the playoffs or are an easy 1st round exit, you have all the rationale you need to fire McCarthy. But I can't for the life of me fathom how anyone thinks that TT's job performance warrants him to get canned as well.

His last 2 draft classes have been some of his best, completely revamped the talent on the defense, and yet he's routinely treated like John **** Hammond on this board. The only concern I feel he didn't adequately address prior to the season was only carrying two RB's on the roster.

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