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Fire MM and TT/ MM: Silverstein Article, Page 8

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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#101 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:23 pm

I wouldn't be against gruden if he wanted back in, but why the hell would you risk a truckload of money on a guy who hasn't coached in ten years and has softened due to a nice tvgig.
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Post#102 » by humanrefutation » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:34 pm

rilamann wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:I can't figure out what happened to Cobb. He's still only 26, and yet its like he's lost his wheels.


The last few years the Packers have been the kings of having guys who look like they are going to be really good only to have them quickly fall off pretty hard.

After Clay's 2nd season he looked like he was on his way to a sure hall of fame career.The past few seasons,even when he's been healthy he hasn't been anything to close to that level

After Bj Raji's 2nd season he looked like he was on his way to being the premier defensive tackle in the league,after 2010 a lot of people forgot he was even still IN the league.

Cobb like you mentioned is another one,his first couple of seasons he looked like he was going to be a dynamic perennial pro bowl WR.The last couple seasons he's just been a guy.Not a bad player,but certainly not dynamic or the impact type of player like we thought he would be after his first couple seasons.Remember after Jennings left and Driver retired a lot of us thought that it was going to be Cobb's time to shine.Obviously he hasn't.

You could almost even put Rodgers in this conversation at this point.

It's like these guys seem washed up by the time they should be first hitting their prime years.

26 for a WR is the peak of their prime,Cobb should be playing the best football of his life right now.Same for Rodgers at age 32.Early to mid 30's are the prime years for a QB.It's supposed to be that stretch where you still have all your physical abilities combined with the fact you've been around for awhile and have all the mental stuff mastered.

Rodgers should be playing the best football of his life RIGHT NOW.Especially for a guy who hasn't suffered any major injuries and didn't start until his 4th year in the league.He's 32,but he's actually a young 32.


Well, I'm not sure I agree with your characterization of their careers.

Clay has struggled with injuries, and was moved to ILB for two seasons in the middle of his prime. But even when he was an ILB, he was effective. And when he's healthy, he's still an impactful pass rusher. There's no massive decline in my view.

While I agree that Raji was on a Sapp-ian trajectory after his second year, a large part of his decline was due to being moved to a different position and struggling with injuries. I mean, he showed signs of coming back when he was moved back into his natural role before suffering another injury. With him, it was a combination of bad role, injuries, and overinflated expectations.

Rodgers is a bit of a mystery. The guy won his second MVP less than two seasons ago. He's been nothing but consistently great until midway through last season. But this isn't a physical collapse...it's mental.

Cobb's decline doesn't make any sense at all unless his injuries were more substantial than they let on. He was a very effective target in 2014 - post-Jennings and Driver - with essentially the same top targets around him. 91 rec, 1300 yards, 12 TDs. Then, Jordy gets hurt and he can't get separation. Jordy comes back, and he still struggles with separation.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#103 » by midranger » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:56 pm

Clay's injuries and declining play? Me thinks it rhymes with bearoids.
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Post#104 » by MickeyDavis » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:19 pm

I think Cobb's decline is directly related to Rodgers, for whatever reason with Rodgers. I don't know what to make of Clay. Roids? Perhaps. But he works out like a madman as well so I really have no idea what's going on with him. But he needs to redo his contract, if we get him and Peppers off this books we'll have money to.... probably do nothing much. /TT
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Post#106 » by MickeyDavis » Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:41 pm

Good to see Rodgers calling out Mike Florio yesterday. Florio is a little bitch. I haven't seen what Florio said this week but when he ripped Rodgers for the airport thing a few years back it showed what an asshat he is.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#107 » by paulpressey25 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:17 pm

As with the Bucks, the problems start at the top and the weeds germinate downwind.

But unlike the Bucks, we've been treated to a great 25-year run, so I have no emotional fan bitterness here. We've all gotten spoiled by the success and two HOF QB's.

Just want them to solve the issue in the offseason and have TT get his gold watch.
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Post#108 » by Mags FTW » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:46 pm

Mentioned it in the lead up thread, but former exec Joe Banner was just on Russilo and Kanell criticizing McCarthy and Co.

Compared our talent to Philly's and said he would take our receivers hands down. Doesn't see how their receivers can get open and ours can't.

Mentioned how when he was in Philly they changed D Coordinators and went from 22nd to 8th with no personnel changes.
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Post#109 » by El Duderino » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:07 am

midranger wrote:Clay's injuries and declining play? Me thinks it rhymes with bearoids.


For all of his injury prone label, prior to this year he had only missed 11 games and a broken thumb caused five of those missed games.
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Post#110 » by HKPackFan » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:24 am

Leroy Butler and Tom S. were talking about how TT's draft and develop philosophy has the team always young and as soon as an injury occurs, how do you expect a Mike Evans, or K. Brice undrafted free agent rookies to play against NFL players. D. Walker was not a surprise, everyone knows who he is, but throwing a bunch of UDRFA into a game and expecting them to pull off a win is a bit wishful thinking.

There are no veteran depth players who can come in and give some snaps to keep things stable, no for us it's always a ton of undrafted rookies who don't know much beyond special teams and when you put them in a game situation you see D. Walker walking around wide open.
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Post#111 » by MickeyDavis » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:16 pm

My friend asked me if I wanted a frozen banana, I said "No, but I want a regular banana later, so, yeah."
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Post#112 » by Dandridgefav » Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:32 pm

Even before the draft – we had 3 serious losses on Defense – Raji, Hayward, & the less time and impact from Pepper’s inevitable decline.
Drafting Clark & Fackrell were good attempts to replace them - over time – but to have to COUNT on rookies (drafted below mid 1st rd) to start right away and “deliver a consistent above average play-off performance” (which we were forced to do with Clark) is NOT a good position to be in. (many teams are – most of those teams are loosers)

For strictly selfish reasons I hate Raji for his decision. I figured loosing Hayward would bite us. For a guy that likes to draft and develop what was TT thinking? I know Rollins, Randall & Guntar was lauded but remember when we took – Edwards, Vincent, McKenzie 1-2-3 and only McKenzie amounted to anything? Also I always hear (and agree with) you can never have too many talented DBs. The guy was an interception machine – the only one we had.
THEN - any team loosing their #1 CB is in some degree of trouble. Add loosing your #1 pass rusher for chunks of time and your pass defense is certainly going to be negatively affected. Then add your #2 & #3 CBs to the MIA list.
Injuries have made it difficult for me to fairly evaluate TT’s performance in putting enough quality talent on this year’s defense. However his overall performance which is tied to his exclusive draft/UDFA can be evaluated.
Despite all the claims that TT’s next man up is always a rookie – mostly they haven’t been. If Pennell had been around Clark also would have played far less.
Whether you feel TT’s drafts have been good or bad - His drafts have been less than what is needed when the strategy is using the draft and UDFA as the ONLY avenue to build and maintain.
For me there is a distinct difference in the operation of building and of maintaining. Both are required. You may not always be building but you will always be engaged in maintaining.
One builds to raise the talent of the team. One maintains a team to keep that level of performance despite inevitable personnel losses.
I don’t mind building exclusively with the draft & UDFA – but I do mind that we do not use all options to maintain the team. With that strategy when you loose a useful guy to free-agency or injury you have to draft to replace – you are not building. Having to draft Clark because of loosing Raji gave no net gain. Keep that cycle up and you will be in a steady decline. Plugging in veterans in key “need” spots to maintain the level of performance until the draft naturally builds the overall talent. Maintaning the talent level via all options allows the GM to draft to build the only way it works = Drafting BPA. Drafting truly BPA regardless of need or position greatly enhances the chances of landing impact players. And for the most part TT doesn’t and mostly hasn’t been drafting BPA during his reign (Rodgers aside). Maybe people believe you don’t draft to fill a need – but teams do have needs that require being filled some way if you want to improve as a team. If your almost exclusive way to add personnel is by draft – you have to draft by need to some degree higher than teams not soley maintaining through the draft.
I do not fire Capers as an independent move and expect that to fix anything. He is not a major issue. However I am fine with him being shown the door if TT and M3 go first.
As for the offense?
Rodgers has something going on – undisclosed injury, addiction to pain killers, a medication that negatively affects performance, an inflated ego, tired of McCarthy, something?

Sitton was very poor player mgmt. by TT. Even if he was being ornery – a) Journal wrote story that Pack lacks verbal leaders – and Sitton was one of the few, b) Sitton’s attitude did not affect the line’s performance last season, c) when informing him his contract would be examined after the younger guys – give him a $50K consideration bonus and move forward. For sure do not jack his value if you consider moving him is any possibility.

Runingback – though it’s a physically tough position and very susceptible to injuries, I won’t condemn TT or M3 for going with Lacey and Starks but in an ideal world maybe use a 3rd or 4th rounder.

Receiver? Would have been ideal to draft a super prospect in 1st if BPA. But there was no choice but to draft a defensive front 7 because of the glaring need which TT will not address any other way.

Had we not lost Raji and Hayward, still uncertain at ILB, and facing the decline of Peppers or signed a veteran or 2 to stabilized those positions – we might have been able to draft heavy offense for a change with some variation based on talent available of 1=WR, 2=TE, 3=OT, 4=RB. Woulda, coulda, shoulda?

McCarthy has not been able to diagnose the cause for Rodgers’ and the offense’s malaise much less correct it. I like M3 and at this point I wouldn’t dump him as the sole solution and expect that alone will improve everything. But if TT goes – what’s the point of keeping M3. The new GM will eventually hire new coach.
I want TT to graciously retire or resign at the end of this season or be fired. Do I expect TT or Mark Murphy to do that? No way in hell even if the Pack lost every one of their remaining games – TT will not voluntarily leave and Murphy will not fire him. In that case Murphy should be purged also if he fails to move the Packers into the next phase.

Clean house!

But the Pack still could find themselves, go on a run , slip into the playoffs with huge momentum and take it all!
Rodgers, M3 & TT's favorable place in Pack history and lore would be forever permanently cast.
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Post#113 » by ReddRum » Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:11 pm

I have been saying fire them both for the past 4 years and most of you were laughing at me. Funny to see you all hopping on the bandwagon now after 4 wasted years and an abysmal playoff record. Eat crow those that talked trash!
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Post#114 » by Mags FTW » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:43 pm

ReddRum wrote:I have been saying fire them both for the past 4 years and most of you were laughing at me. Funny to see you all hopping on the bandwagon now after 4 wasted years and an abysmal playoff record. Eat crow those that talked trash!

If not for an improbable comedy of errors 2 years ago they would've made it to the Super Bowl.
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Post#115 » by humanrefutation » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:37 pm

ReddRum wrote:I have been saying fire them both for the past 4 years and most of you were laughing at me. Funny to see you all hopping on the bandwagon now after 4 wasted years and an abysmal playoff record. Eat crow those that talked trash!


The circumstances have changed since then. You were definitely wrong four years ago. Very, very wrong.

If you want to duck your head in and claim credit for making a statement four years ago that was absurd at the time, go ahead. It doesn't flatter you.
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Post#116 » by HKPackFan » Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:24 am

I'm really worried the entire coaching staff gets a mulligan with all the injuries. That's covering up how crappy this team really is.

Seems we always have an excuse to lose. Injuries, wind, whatever else. While other teams overcome.
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Post#117 » by El Duderino » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:07 am

HKPackFan wrote:I'm really worried the entire coaching staff gets a mulligan with all the injuries. That's covering up how crappy this team really is.

Seems we always have an excuse to lose. Injuries, wind, whatever else. While other teams overcome.


This is where Mark Murphy can't be passive. He needs to at the very least force Ted's hand if he stays conservative and wants to bring back the coaching staff.

For me, i'd prefer Murphy politely thank Ted for his service and clean house entirely. Ask for a retirement, but if Ted wants to stay in the game, let him move on to another team and promote Wolf.
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Post#118 » by HKPackFan » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:16 am

Another point a friend made tonight, is we have such a passive fan base, that always sells out.

Revenue is not much of an issue when our fan base buys an absurd amount of gear, our gift shop is insane, and is always a sellout.

There's a little less pressure when the money just keeps flowing in and the fan base always shows up.


All TT ever has to do is put enough talent on the field hoping to get the the playoffs to keep the fanbase happy, and hope they get lucky and win 3 games in a row in the playoffs. TT never really has to go all in, just keep the team good enough. That could be a reason why he goes into the season knowing he has a couple holes (remember we went into the season knowing we had no safeties, or knowing we had ZERO ILBS) and just grabs some guy who's not even NFL caliber and just plugs him in and hopes for the best. Just grab a few undrafted rookie free agents and cross your fingers they never have to play OR they magically figure it out.
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Post#119 » by FAH1223 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:10 am

HKPackFan wrote:Another point a friend made tonight, is we have such a passive fan base, that always sells out.

Revenue is not much of an issue when our fan base buys an absurd amount of gear, our gift shop is insane, and is always a sellout.

There's a little less pressure when the money just keeps flowing in and the fan base always shows up.


All TT ever has to do is put enough talent on the field hoping to get the the playoffs to keep the fanbase happy, and hope they get lucky and win 3 games in a row in the playoffs. TT never really has to go all in, just keep the team good enough. That could be a reason why he goes into the season knowing he has a couple holes (remember we went into the season knowing we had no safeties, or knowing we had ZERO ILBS) and just grabs some guy who's not even NFL caliber and just plugs him in and hopes for the best. Just grab a few undrafted rookie free agents and cross your fingers they never have to play OR they magically figure it out.


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Post#120 » by HKPackFan » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:57 am

Sometimes I wonder if the apocalypse is coming. Things that could never have been imagined a few years ago are now happening. Trump is President, the Cubs won the World Series. What the hell else is next?

Lebron James gets pregnant, has a baby but does it in 6 months time all by himself, the baby pops out of his belly button and dunks his father's gallbladder.

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