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Fire MM and TT/ MM: Silverstein Article, Page 8

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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#121 » by msiris » Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:28 pm

Cant blame injuries. Everybody has them. Even the hapless Browns do not give up 40 points a game. This year everything has caught up with them. Clean house.
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Post#122 » by Mags FTW » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:58 pm

HKPackFan wrote:Sometimes I wonder if the apocalypse is coming. Things that could never have been imagined a few years ago are now happening. Trump is President, the Cubs won the World Series. What the hell else is next?

Badgers lose the Axe and the Vikings get Peterson back and win the Super Bowl.
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Post#123 » by Mags FTW » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:01 pm

msiris wrote:Cant blame injuries. Everybody has them. Even the hapless Browns do not give up 40 points a game. This year everything has caught up with them. Clean house.

Yup, look at the Bears yesterday.
No Jeffrey, Sitton out with injury, Miller out with injury, on top of all of the other ones they had and they had a chance to win in NY until Jay started being Jay.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#124 » by thomchatt3rton » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:35 pm

Let's say we clean house this off-season and TT, MM and Capers are all gone.

If we're brutally honest with ourselves, what are the odds we:

1) Get new coaches and GM who are better than TT/MM?

2) Get new coaches and a GM who are more or less the same as TT/MM?

3) Get new coaches and a GM who are worse than TT/MM?

AND...

...How many seasons does it take for us to know whether the new GM and coaches are better, worse or the same? How do we know? Based on record? Because based on record, MM/TT have been (I don't know if you heard) very successful.

Honest question.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#125 » by Iheartfootball » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:55 pm

Why do people believe that Eliot Wolf will be much better than TT? What's on his resume?
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#126 » by El Duderino » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:14 pm

Iheartfootball wrote:Why do people believe that Eliot Wolf will be much better than TT? What's on his resume?


It doesn't have to be Wolf. If Murphy is doing his job, he should already have a list of potential GM candidates in place on the chance Ted wanted to retire, not only because the team has been falling apart.

It's no different than a GM should have potential head coach candidates in mind in case he wanted to make a change or a college AD having a head coach list ready in case a coach were to leave or need to be fired.

Anytime a NFL team hires a new GM and/or head coach, they are taking a chance that things could get better or worse. I'd rather Murphy does that vs playing it safe and keeping things the same.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#127 » by Profound23 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:34 pm

People keep telling me Ted is such a draftnik.

Well his 2010 Superbowl team had free agents like Woodson, Pickett and draft picks left over from the previous Era like Cullen Jenkins, Driver....etc

Early on he hit on some great picks in Nick Collins, Raji, Aaron, and Clay

Now he is strictly relying on drafting and doing a terrible job of it.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#128 » by LikeABosh » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:17 pm

Iheartfootball wrote:Why do people believe that Eliot Wolf will be much better than TT? What's on his resume?


Why do we have to believe he'll be better to give him a chance? What's important right now is that we don't think TT is getting the job done and it's time to move on
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#129 » by Iheartfootball » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:40 pm

LikeABosh wrote:
Iheartfootball wrote:Why do people believe that Eliot Wolf will be much better than TT? What's on his resume?


Why do we have to believe he'll be better to give him a chance? What's important right now is that we don't think TT is getting the job done and it's time to move on


Huh? Why not replace TT with the best possible candidate? I'm asking why so many think Eliot Wolf is that person. I mean, he learned under TT's tutelage, no?
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#130 » by Iheartfootball » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:42 pm

El Duderino wrote:
Iheartfootball wrote:Why do people believe that Eliot Wolf will be much better than TT? What's on his resume?


It doesn't have to be Wolf. If Murphy is doing his job, he should already have a list of potential GM candidates in place on the chance Ted wanted to retire, not only because the team has been falling apart.

It's no different than a GM should have potential head coach candidates in mind in case he wanted to make a change or a college AD having a head coach list ready in case a coach were to leave or need to be fired.

Anytime a NFL team hires a new GM and/or head coach, they are taking a chance that things could get better or worse. I'd rather Murphy does that vs playing it safe and keeping things the same.


I'm on the same page as you. I'm just curious why so many think Wolf is going to be better. His teacher was Ted. I think they need to start fresh. I thought Wolf was mostly a scout and talent evaluator. I could be wrong. But if that's the case then, no, I don't want him. This team has a talent void and he would seem to be partially responsible.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#131 » by RiotPunch » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:04 am

Iheartfootball wrote:
El Duderino wrote:
Iheartfootball wrote:Why do people believe that Eliot Wolf will be much better than TT? What's on his resume?


It doesn't have to be Wolf. If Murphy is doing his job, he should already have a list of potential GM candidates in place on the chance Ted wanted to retire, not only because the team has been falling apart.

It's no different than a GM should have potential head coach candidates in mind in case he wanted to make a change or a college AD having a head coach list ready in case a coach were to leave or need to be fired.

Anytime a NFL team hires a new GM and/or head coach, they are taking a chance that things could get better or worse. I'd rather Murphy does that vs playing it safe and keeping things the same.


I'm on the same page as you. I'm just curious why so many think Wolf is going to be better. His teacher was Ted. I think they need to start fresh. I thought Wolf was mostly a scout and talent evaluator. I could be wrong. But if that's the case then, no, I don't want him. This team has a talent void and he would seem to be partially responsible.


I think you look at the promotions he's gotten and the attention he's gotten from other teams as his "resume", since we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. What we do know is that guys like Schneider and McKenzie also learned the game under Ted and have been successful elsewhere. Just because Eliot has been under Ted's wing doesn't mean he's going to take the exact same approach. Draft and develop will still be the primary focus, as it should be, but who knows how many times Wolf or whoever else has pushed for different selections or free agents only to have Ted ultimately go his own way? Schneider has certainly shown that he is not shy on the FA market.

I'd be fine with Wolf, but yes, Murphy should have a short list regardless.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#132 » by msiris » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:19 am

thomchatt3rton wrote:Let's say we clean house this off-season and TT, MM and Capers are all gone.

If we're brutally honest with ourselves, what are the odds we:

1) Get new coaches and GM who are better than TT/MM?

2) Get new coaches and a GM who are more or less the same as TT/MM?

3) Get new coaches and a GM who are worse than TT/MM?

AND...

...How many seasons does it take for us to know whether the new GM and coaches are better, worse or the same? How do we know? Based on record? Because based on record, MM/TT have been (I don't know if you heard) very successful.

Honest question.
Got to take a chance. We have a good QB. Just need to find someone who is good at in game adjustments and hire a GM who will not sole rely on the draft.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#133 » by Iheartfootball » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:24 am

RiotPunch wrote:
Iheartfootball wrote:
El Duderino wrote:
It doesn't have to be Wolf. If Murphy is doing his job, he should already have a list of potential GM candidates in place on the chance Ted wanted to retire, not only because the team has been falling apart.

It's no different than a GM should have potential head coach candidates in mind in case he wanted to make a change or a college AD having a head coach list ready in case a coach were to leave or need to be fired.

Anytime a NFL team hires a new GM and/or head coach, they are taking a chance that things could get better or worse. I'd rather Murphy does that vs playing it safe and keeping things the same.


I'm on the same page as you. I'm just curious why so many think Wolf is going to be better. His teacher was Ted. I think they need to start fresh. I thought Wolf was mostly a scout and talent evaluator. I could be wrong. But if that's the case then, no, I don't want him. This team has a talent void and he would seem to be partially responsible.


I think you look at the promotions he's gotten and the attention he's gotten from other teams as his "resume", since we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. What we do know is that guys like Schneider and McKenzie also learned the game under Ted and have been successful elsewhere. Just because Eliot has been under Ted's wing doesn't mean he's going to take the exact same approach. Draft and develop will still be the primary focus, as it should be, but who knows how many times Wolf or whoever else has pushed for different selections or free agents only to have Ted ultimately go his own way? Schneider has certainly shown that he is not shy on the FA market.

I'd be fine with Wolf, but yes, Murphy should have a short list regardless.


That's fair. Ultimately you make a good point. Whoever gets the post after TT will be their own man and make different decisions from him. But his influence still exists. I don't know if that's a bad thing. I mean, the teams he put together were successful for a time.

I'm just leery of someone so close to the current regime. But at the same time I would love Schneider. So what do I know? I'm mostly confused.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#134 » by RiotPunch » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:36 am

Iheartfootball wrote:
RiotPunch wrote:
Iheartfootball wrote:
I'm on the same page as you. I'm just curious why so many think Wolf is going to be better. His teacher was Ted. I think they need to start fresh. I thought Wolf was mostly a scout and talent evaluator. I could be wrong. But if that's the case then, no, I don't want him. This team has a talent void and he would seem to be partially responsible.


I think you look at the promotions he's gotten and the attention he's gotten from other teams as his "resume", since we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. What we do know is that guys like Schneider and McKenzie also learned the game under Ted and have been successful elsewhere. Just because Eliot has been under Ted's wing doesn't mean he's going to take the exact same approach. Draft and develop will still be the primary focus, as it should be, but who knows how many times Wolf or whoever else has pushed for different selections or free agents only to have Ted ultimately go his own way? Schneider has certainly shown that he is not shy on the FA market.

I'd be fine with Wolf, but yes, Murphy should have a short list regardless.


That's fair. Ultimately you make a good point. Whoever gets the post after TT will be their own man and make different decisions from him. But his influence still exists. I don't know if that's a bad thing. I mean, the teams he put together were successful for a time.

I'm just leery of someone so close to the current regime. But at the same time I would love Schneider. So what do I know? I'm mostly confused.

I personally think Ted's influence is a good thing. It's very important to know the value of a draft pick. His formula is close, but needs tweaking, and better selections need to be made. Hopefully Wolf takes the reins, makes better picks and makes some calculated FA splashes. It is all speculation at this point though.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#135 » by thomchatt3rton » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:40 am

msiris wrote:
thomchatt3rton wrote:Let's say we clean house this off-season and TT, MM and Capers are all gone.

If we're brutally honest with ourselves, what are the odds we:

1) Get new coaches and GM who are better than TT/MM?

2) Get new coaches and a GM who are more or less the same as TT/MM?

3) Get new coaches and a GM who are worse than TT/MM?

AND...

...How many seasons does it take for us to know whether the new GM and coaches are better, worse or the same? How do we know? Based on record? Because based on record, MM/TT have been (I don't know if you heard) very successful.

Honest question.
Got to take a chance. We have a good QB. Just need to find someone who is good at in game adjustments and hire a GM who will not sole rely on the draft.


Sure, you can't let the possibility of failure prevent you from taking a risk. In a way though, that's exactly my point- how big is the risk of "failure"? And are people being realistic about assessing that risk when they want to "clean house"?

My intuition tells me that with a new coach and GM, you'd most likely just exchange one set of problems for another. That's just the way the world seems to work. That seems far more likely an outcome than a new coach/GM coming in and fixing everything.
I don't know to what extent that idea is crossing people's minds here- if it is, no one is really vocalizing it on this forum. Certainly the idea that we might replace Ted and Mike with folks who are even worse at the job doesn't seem to be troubling anyone.

In a way, I think one of the best arguments for potentially firing MM is one of the fuzziest; and that's the idea of sheer entropy. Things fall apart and the team needs a new voice- not because of anything MM has or has not done- which is interesting.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#136 » by paulpressey25 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:43 am

Iheartfootball wrote: I'm just curious why so many think Wolf is going to be better. His teacher was Ted.


No, his teacher is Ron, his father. Ted is just his current boss.

I would have much preferred they give TT the forced gold watch last season and brought back Schneider before he signed his new deal and said so at the time. Elliot might be great, he might be terrible. We just don't know.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#137 » by HKPackFan » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:22 am

paulpressey25 wrote:
Iheartfootball wrote: I'm just curious why so many think Wolf is going to be better. His teacher was Ted.


No, his teacher is Ron, his father. Ted is just his current boss.

I would have much preferred they give TT the forced gold watch last season and brought back Schneider before he signed his new deal and said so at the time. Elliot might be great, he might be terrible. We just don't know.



I didn't realize we missed the window on Schneider. Damn that sucks. I would have been very comfortable with him.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#138 » by LikeABosh » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:08 am

Iheartfootball wrote:
LikeABosh wrote:
Iheartfootball wrote:Why do people believe that Eliot Wolf will be much better than TT? What's on his resume?


Why do we have to believe he'll be better to give him a chance? What's important right now is that we don't think TT is getting the job done and it's time to move on


Huh? Why not replace TT with the best possible candidate? I'm asking why so many think Eliot Wolf is that person. I mean, he learned under TT's tutelage, no?


Right. It might be Wolf, but Idk. He seems to be next in line. Point is we don't really have any way of knowing if he'll be better, but we just gotta sails, y'know mean?
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#139 » by paulpressey25 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:09 pm

HKPackFan wrote:
I didn't realize we missed the window on Schneider. Damn that sucks. I would have been very comfortable with him.


He signed his new deal back on July 25th, only four-months ago. And the new deal doesn't have the "Packers out" like his prior one did. This situation has bothered me for the last two years because he was the guy who we should have moved in there after last season.

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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#140 » by Ron Swanson » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:13 pm

There really isn't anything to suggest that Schneider ever wanted to leave his cushy job with Seattle just to come back to Green Bay other than him being from there. They've had a transition process in place for years so I'm more than content to let things play out. Rather than speculate on whether or not Elliot Wolf could be "terrible" based off of nothing more than the idea of his reputation being based entirely off of his last name.

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