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Fire MM and TT/ MM: Silverstein Article, Page 8

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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#141 » by Mags FTW » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:28 pm

If Wolf is like McKenzie, I'd be happy with that. If he truely learned from his father, you would also expect him to dabble in free agency more than TT does.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#142 » by humanrefutation » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:55 pm

I don't think Ted is going anywhere, guys. The very most I expect is for him to announce a succession plan that builds up to the expiration of his contract, at which point he retires.

I also think its likely McCarthy sticks, too, but I find him departing more likely.

Most likely scenario? Capers gets canned and Mac gets another year.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#143 » by MickeyDavis » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:48 pm

humanrefutation wrote:I don't think Ted is going anywhere, guys. The very most I expect is for him to announce a succession plan that builds up to the expiration of his contract, at which point he retires.

I also think its likely McCarthy sticks, too, but I find him departing more likely.

Most likely scenario? Capers gets canned and Mac gets another year.


I'm afraid you're right. Capers is 66 and I could see him "retiring". But TT is stubborn, no way he retires. And there is something to be said about 7 straight playoff appearances. That's tied with New England. TT signed an extension 2 years ago that takes him through the 2018 season and I have a feeling that's when Wolf takes over. Assuming Wolf has been promised the job. As has been said earlier there's no guarantee Wolf will be better, or as good, as TT. He may be terrible.

I really wished we would be gone after Schneider when we had the chance. `
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#144 » by humanrefutation » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:06 pm

Schneider is not perfect, either. I was in Seattle a couple weeks ago, and all I heard from folks over there was how they think Schneider saddled the team with a bad offensive line, and that their running back situation was terrible.

Every GM has his flaws.

If we wanted Schneider, we probably could send a pick to Seattle to facilitate the move.
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Re: RE: Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#145 » by RRyder823 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:30 am

humanrefutation wrote:Schneider is not perfect, either. I was in Seattle a couple weeks ago, and all I heard from folks over there was how they think Schneider saddled the team with a bad offensive line, and that their running back situation was terrible.

Every GM has his flaws.

If we wanted Schneider, we probably could send a pick to Seattle to facilitate the move.

If we switch GMs people will always find something to complain about.

Still not on board with the idea that TT needs to go. MM should be shown the door if only to get a fresh voice but I'm not seeing a lack of talent on this team

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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: Murphy Vote of Confidence Page 8 

Post#146 » by MickeyDavis » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:29 pm

The cliched vote of confidence

Mark Murphy doesn't believe it's time to make major changes to the Green Bay Packers, who are in the midst of a four-game losing streak.

The Packers are in danger of missing the playoffs for the first time since 2008.

"I do hear from a lot of fans. And I tell fans: Like them, I'm disappointed," Murphy said. "Certainly, the season hasn't gone the way we had all hoped, but there's a lot of football left to be played. And the other thing I tell people is, you've got to look at Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy's track record."
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: Murphy Vote of Confidence Page 8 

Post#147 » by PkrsBcksGphsMqt » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:37 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:The cliched vote of confidence

Mark Murphy doesn't believe it's time to make major changes to the Green Bay Packers, who are in the midst of a four-game losing streak.

The Packers are in danger of missing the playoffs for the first time since 2008.

"I do hear from a lot of fans. And I tell fans: Like them, I'm disappointed," Murphy said. "Certainly, the season hasn't gone the way we had all hoped, but there's a lot of football left to be played. And the other thing I tell people is, you've got to look at Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy's track record."


"A lot of football left to be played" = MM better turn it around.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#148 » by GBPackers47 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:16 pm

humanrefutation wrote:I don't think Ted is going anywhere, guys. The very most I expect is for him to announce a succession plan that builds up to the expiration of his contract, at which point he retires.

I also think its likely McCarthy sticks, too, but I find him departing more likely.

Most likely scenario? Capers gets canned and Mac gets another year.


I think you're definitely right. I want all three gone so we can have a fresh start, but if I can only choose one, I'm getting rid of Capers. Our defense has been painful to watch for years now, and honestly, I don't see it getting any better as long as Capers is around.

I would be okay with giving McCarthy one more year, as long as we have a new DC and we fill our team out with more than late round and UDFA players. If this team still can't figure it out after those adjustments, McCarthy NEEDS to be gone.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: Murphy Vote of Confidence Page 8 

Post#149 » by trwi7 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:46 pm

I get that you have to say a lot of football left to be played but when you're 2 games or more back of multiple teams with only 6 games left, that's pretty daunting.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: Murphy Vote of Confidence Page 8 

Post#150 » by humanrefutation » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:51 pm

trwi7 wrote:I get that you have to say a lot of football left to be played but when you're 2 games or more back of multiple teams with only 6 games left, that's pretty daunting.


Thing is, the NFC North is so terrible that I could see them getting in at 8-8 or 9-7. I don't trust Minnesota or Detroit to run away with it.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: Murphy Vote of Confidence Page 8 

Post#151 » by trwi7 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:07 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
trwi7 wrote:I get that you have to say a lot of football left to be played but when you're 2 games or more back of multiple teams with only 6 games left, that's pretty daunting.


Thing is, the NFC North is so terrible that I could see them getting in at 8-8 or 9-7. I don't trust Minnesota or Detroit to run away with it.


I agree the NFC North is terrible but Minnesota has home games with Indianapolis and Chicago left and a road game in Jacksonville. Those games alone would get them to 9 wins which means we need to find 5 wins at minimum from @ Philly, vs Houston, vs Seattle, @ Chicago, vs Minnesota, @ Detroit and one of those wins has to be against Minnesota.

I don't think we can be confident at all about winning any of those games except the Chicago game. We lose in Philly this weekend and I think the season is over. That would knock us 2 games behind teams that don't even hold a wildcard spot, plus we would be losing pretty much every head to head tiebreaker and one of Minnesota or Detroit is going to go 3 games up in the division since they play each other tomorrow.

We would need some Nate Poole type voodoo magic to make the playoffs at that point.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#152 » by ReddRum » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:38 pm

Mags FTW wrote:
ReddRum wrote:I have been saying fire them both for the past 4 years and most of you were laughing at me. Funny to see you all hopping on the bandwagon now after 4 wasted years and an abysmal playoff record. Eat crow those that talked trash!

If not for an improbable comedy of errors 2 years ago they would've made it to the Super Bowl.


I will give you that but he coached an awful game in my opinion.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#153 » by ReddRum » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:41 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
ReddRum wrote:I have been saying fire them both for the past 4 years and most of you were laughing at me. Funny to see you all hopping on the bandwagon now after 4 wasted years and an abysmal playoff record. Eat crow those that talked trash!


The circumstances have changed since then. You were definitely wrong four years ago. Very, very wrong.

If you want to duck your head in and claim credit for making a statement four years ago that was absurd at the time, go ahead. It doesn't flatter you.


Really I was wrong?? And how many Super Bowls have we won since then? And what does our playoff record look like?
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#154 » by humanrefutation » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:51 pm

ReddRum wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
ReddRum wrote:I have been saying fire them both for the past 4 years and most of you were laughing at me. Funny to see you all hopping on the bandwagon now after 4 wasted years and an abysmal playoff record. Eat crow those that talked trash!


The circumstances have changed since then. You were definitely wrong four years ago. Very, very wrong.

If you want to duck your head in and claim credit for making a statement four years ago that was absurd at the time, go ahead. It doesn't flatter you.


Really I was wrong?? And how many Super Bowls have we won since then? And what does our playoff record look like?


Yes, you were wrong. Four seasons ago, the Packers were coming off a 15-1 record and lost a flukey game to the Giants. They were a little more than a year removed from winning the Super Bowl. It would have been absolutely asinine to fire MM or TT at that point.

In 2012, they went 11-5, but lost to the 49ers in the divisional round. It would have been stupid to fire MM or TT at that point, too.

In 2013, Rodgers was injured for seven games and they still managed to make the playoffs. It would have been idiotic to fire MM or TT then.

In 2014, they went to the NFC Title Game and were on the verge of making the Bowl. Firing MM or TT at that point would have been absurd.

Indeed, the first time it became clear this team was starting to crumble a bit was last season.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#155 » by El Duderino » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:14 pm

GBPackers47 wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:I don't think Ted is going anywhere, guys. The very most I expect is for him to announce a succession plan that builds up to the expiration of his contract, at which point he retires.

I also think its likely McCarthy sticks, too, but I find him departing more likely.

Most likely scenario? Capers gets canned and Mac gets another year.


I think you're definitely right. I want all three gone so we can have a fresh start, but if I can only choose one, I'm getting rid of Capers. Our defense has been painful to watch for years now, and honestly, I don't see it getting any better as long as Capers is around.


Why do so many keep mainly just blaming Capers for this horrible defense?

Name one good or even just half way decent corner on this current roster with Shields and Randall out?

With Clay missing games, Peppers on his last legs, Perry no longer being a consistent pass rusher, Jones vanishing act, Fackrell being worthless, and not a single defensive lineman who can create pressure besides Daniels, the pass rush has been terrible most downs unless Capers blitzes, which leaves our garbage corners even more exposed. Haha is also very inconsistent, not the player we hoped he'd become. Hyde sucks.

When offenses go back to pass, Capers has a group of defensive lineman who are largely worthless at creating pressure outside of an occasional pressure by Daniels and an OLB group, especial with Clay out or limping around who no longer creates consistent pressure. Capers also is saddled with probably the worst group of corners in all of the NFL.

So while Capers certainly deserves some blame, every defensive coordinator is going to have lots of trouble when his front seven pass rushers can't generate consistent pressure without blitzing and also having the worst group of corners in the league. Bottom tier talent at ILB, and maybe worst in the league with Ryan out.

Between injuries and Ted's failures in roster construction of this defense, Capers has very little to work with.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#156 » by humanrefutation » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:37 pm

El Duderino wrote:
GBPackers47 wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:I don't think Ted is going anywhere, guys. The very most I expect is for him to announce a succession plan that builds up to the expiration of his contract, at which point he retires.

I also think its likely McCarthy sticks, too, but I find him departing more likely.

Most likely scenario? Capers gets canned and Mac gets another year.


I think you're definitely right. I want all three gone so we can have a fresh start, but if I can only choose one, I'm getting rid of Capers. Our defense has been painful to watch for years now, and honestly, I don't see it getting any better as long as Capers is around.


Why do so many keep mainly just blaming Capers for this horrible defense?

Name one good or even just half way decent corner on this current roster with Shields and Randall out?

With Clay missing games, Peppers on his last legs, Perry no longer being a consistent pass rusher, Jones vanishing act, Fackrell being worthless, and not a single defensive lineman who can create pressure besides Daniels, the pass rush has been terrible most downs unless Capers blitzes, which leaves our garbage corners even more exposed. Haha is also very inconsistent, not the player we hoped he'd become. Hyde sucks.

When offenses go back to pass, Capers has a group of defensive lineman who are largely worthless at creating pressure outside of an occasional pressure by Daniels and an OLB group, especial with Clay out or limping around who no longer creates consistent pressure. Capers also is saddled with probably the worst group of corners in all of the NFL.

So while Capers certainly deserves some blame, every defensive coordinator is going to have lots of trouble when his front seven pass rushers can't generate consistent pressure without blitzing and also having the worst group of corners in the league. Bottom tier talent at ILB, and maybe worst in the league with Ryan out.

Between injuries and Ted's failures in roster construction of this defense, Capers has very little to work with.


This was an interesting read:

https://theringer.com/green-bays-defense-is-officially-broken-fc263d471781
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: Murphy Vote of Confidence Page 8 

Post#157 » by jlyons043 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:31 pm

It's extremely hard to build a good defense when you're so poor up front. Outside of Daniels is there anyone on the Dline that we would miss? Maybe Clark purely because he's young and was a high pick so he has the potential to be good?
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: I'm A Highly Successful NFL Coach - Page 3 

Post#158 » by GBPackers47 » Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:39 pm

El Duderino wrote:
GBPackers47 wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:I don't think Ted is going anywhere, guys. The very most I expect is for him to announce a succession plan that builds up to the expiration of his contract, at which point he retires.

I also think its likely McCarthy sticks, too, but I find him departing more likely.

Most likely scenario? Capers gets canned and Mac gets another year.


I think you're definitely right. I want all three gone so we can have a fresh start, but if I can only choose one, I'm getting rid of Capers. Our defense has been painful to watch for years now, and honestly, I don't see it getting any better as long as Capers is around.


Why do so many keep mainly just blaming Capers for this horrible defense?

Name one good or even just half way decent corner on this current roster with Shields and Randall out?

With Clay missing games, Peppers on his last legs, Perry no longer being a consistent pass rusher, Jones vanishing act, Fackrell being worthless, and not a single defensive lineman who can create pressure besides Daniels, the pass rush has been terrible most downs unless Capers blitzes, which leaves our garbage corners even more exposed. Haha is also very inconsistent, not the player we hoped he'd become. Hyde sucks.

When offenses go back to pass, Capers has a group of defensive lineman who are largely worthless at creating pressure outside of an occasional pressure by Daniels and an OLB group, especial with Clay out or limping around who no longer creates consistent pressure. Capers also is saddled with probably the worst group of corners in all of the NFL.

So while Capers certainly deserves some blame, every defensive coordinator is going to have lots of trouble when his front seven pass rushers can't generate consistent pressure without blitzing and also having the worst group of corners in the league. Bottom tier talent at ILB, and maybe worst in the league with Ryan out.

Between injuries and Ted's failures in roster construction of this defense, Capers has very little to work with.


You make valid points, and I agree the blame can't be 100% on Capers. We have a lot of garbage players playing meaningful time on the defense side of the ball.

The reason I'm quick to jump on Capers is because this isn't a new problem. Yes the players suck, but their athletic ability should at least count for something. It has gotten to the point where it's so bad it looks like we don't even watch film before games. The defense is undisciplined, gets fooled way too easy and just doesn't look energetic at all. Part of it is having young inexperienced guys, but guys like Hyde, Burnett, even Ha Ha look god awful at times. The inability to get the defense prepared to play falls on the shoulders of Capers. If we get torched, so be it but at least do it with some dignity. This defense doesn't even look like they care.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: Murphy Vote of Confidence Page 8 

Post#159 » by MickeyDavis » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:53 pm

Silverstein on Thompson

No matter what happens this offseason, the Green Bay Packers organization owes a tremendous debt of gratitude to general manager Ted Thompson.

Since former president Bob Harlan chose him to run the football operation in January of 2005, the Packers are 116-68-1, have made the playoffs eight times, played in three NFC championship games and won a Super Bowl.

Thompson’s winning percentage over 11-plus years (.630) is a sliver behind Pro Football Hall of Famer Ron Wolf’s over nine years (.639). Thompson will go into the Packers Hall of Fame having presided over one of the most successful eras in team history.

It would be hard to fire him because of one bad stretch of football.

But there are many factors at work that could lead to changes in the front office and they aren’t all related to the Packers’ disappointing 4-6 season. Some are the reality that the NFL is a young man’s game and if president Mark Murphy waits too long to bring in fresh leadership, he could be left empty-handed.

Thompson, who will turn 64 in January and reportedly has two years left on his contract after this season, said in an interview in August he would stay on as long as he felt he was contributing positively to the organization.

The Packers have hit hard times and their streak of seven straight postseason appearances – tied with New England for the active lead – is perilously close to ending. The Packers are 9-13 over their last 22 games and in danger of finishing below .500 for the first time since 2008.

This extended period of mediocrity and the embarrassing performances during a four-game losing streak have brought to light the weakness of the roster, the questionable distribution of players by position and the lack of veteran leadership.

Murphy, and the executive committee he serves, are at a crossroads. They have invested millions of dollars in the development of their so-called “Titletown District” and it would be disastrous for them if the team suddenly slid into a 1980s-style funk.

Thompson’s conservative style, his unwavering commitment to building the team only through the draft, may have run its course. The teams that have won Super Bowls over the past decade, including his own, have used free agency, the draft and in some cases trades to stock their rosters.

Among them, Denver (Peyton Manning, Aqib Talib), New England (LaGarrette Blount, Darrelle Revis), Seattle (Michael Bennett, Percy Harvin), Baltimore (Matt Birk, Anquan Boldin), the New York Giants (Chris Canty, Antrell Rolle) and Green Bay (Charles Woodson, Ryan Pickett) all received huge lifts from players not acquired through the draft.

Murphy did not hire Thompson and if he has tired of the draft-only approach, he and the executive committee might be thinking this is their chance to bring in their own man. Murphy has given Thompson free rein to run the football operation, rarely sticking his nose into his general manager’s business, but not since 2008 has the team been this bad.

There is only one member of the executive committee, John Bergstrom, who was around when Harlan hired Thompson. Everyone else has retired and been replaced. The new committee has focused on building the Packers into a corporate powerhouse with interests way beyond fielding a great football team.

They may feel empowered to gut the front office and start over.

It would then be on Murphy to pick the right man for the job. If he stayed in house, his top two options for filling Thompson’s spot would be vice president of football administration/ player finance Russ Ball or director of football operations Eliot Wolf.

If he chose to go outside the organization and start anew, he’d risk losing both of those talented employees along with many of Thompson’s excellent scouts if he didn’t hire someone from Ron Wolf’s scouting tree. Maybe he could get Seattle GM John Schneider to return, but that’s not a guarantee. Such a hire would allow the scouting system to remain intact, but Schneider might not feel comfortable taking a job from which one of his mentors was fired.

If Murphy decides that he’d like Thompson to stick around, he has another problem. There is continued frustration within the personnel department over Thompson’s unwillingness to take a chance on free agents and his devotion to draft picks.

This isn’t anything new.

All you have to do is see what former Thompson underlings did when they landed general manager jobs of their own. Schneider has made Wolf look like a nickel slots player with all the chances he’s taken in building a Super Bowl-contending roster in Seattle.

Reggie McKenzie played it Thompson’s way until he got the Oakland Raiders out of salary-cap purgatory and then laid out big bucks to help supplement his success in the draft. John Dorsey hasn’t hesitated to spend money on free agents during his run in Kansas City, although he hasn’t really needed to.

All of the scouts who come out of the Wolf-Thompson tree believe in building teams through the draft and have accepted that Thompson refuses to spend in free agency unless it’s a blue-light special. But frustration gets highest when teams lose and that’s what the Packers are doing right now.

Thompson allowed Schneider and McKenzie, in particular, to pursue free agents and see what they could come up with. They persuaded him to sign Woodson and Pickett and it resulted in the team winning a Super Bowl.

Since Schneider, McKenzie and Dorsey left, Thompson has ignored unrestricted free agency completely: He hasn’t signed one since 2012. He did invest in Letroy Guion, Julius Peppers and Jared Cook, but only after they were cut and the price was reasonable.

The Packers are always one of the youngest teams in the NFL and two non-productive drafts have meant devastating consequences for the current team’s depth. They have not created a free-agent safety net for their draft selections.

Murphy and the executive committee probably have an appetite for a free-agent splash or two since a Super Bowl would greatly enhance the chances of their playland succeeding. Time is running out with quarterback Aaron Rodgers and the higher ups might be getting antsy.

Murphy’s toughest decision is whether to tab Eliot Wolf, Ron’s son, to lead the football operation into a new era. At age 34, Wolf would be the youngest general manager in the NFL, a year younger than Philadelphia’s Howie Roseman was when he became the youngest general manager in the NFL in 2010.

But Wolf is talented, has learned under some of the best in the business and his reputation continues to grow in NFL circles.

Last season, a surrogate for the Detroit Lions inquired about Wolf’s interest in the Lions job after general manager Martin Mayhew was fired at mid-season. An NFL source said the Lions wanted to interview Wolf during the season, but NFL rules state that no executive can interview for a job in the middle of a season when he is under contract.

Once the Lions were made aware they were overstepping their bounds they backed off. After the regular season ended, they turned their focus to New England director of pro scouting Bob Quinn, who took the job. But they thought enough of Wolf to seek an interview.

If Murphy wants Wolf to wait two years before succeeding Thompson, he’ll have to risk the possibility that Wolf will leave to take a general manager’s job somewhere else . There aren’t expected to be a lot of general manager jobs open this offseason and the ones that are open probably aren’t that attractive.

San Francisco has meddling owners; Chicago doesn’t have strong ownership; New Orleans had a dispute between owner Tom Benson and his children over Benson’s mental competency. But Los Angeles has a strong, bold owner and might be a suitor.

Wolf is young enough that he can wait for the right job to open.

But if Murphy is convinced Wolf is the future, he’s going to have to commit to him soon, probably this offseason.

One way he could keep Wolf is to do what the Milwaukee Brewers did when they hired 30-year-old David Stearns to replace Doug Melvin as general manager. Stearns was given full authority on personnel moves, but Melvin was kept on in an advisory role as president of baseball operations.

The Packers could do the same thing with Wolf and Thompson. Wolf would get all the authority a general manager normally gets and have one of his mentors, Thompson, there to advise him. Wolf would be able to open new doors in player acquisition and still have Thompson there to be the voice of conservatism.

Wolf would want the authority to decide on the fate of coach Mike McCarthy and his staff – any general manager would. This has not been McCarthy’s best year, but if Wolf were able to deliver him a few more impact players, McCarthy might be reinvigorated and able to revive this moribund team.

Wolf may turn out be as conservative as Thompson when it comes to building through the draft, but he has grown up in a system in which people like Schneider, McKenzie and Dorsey have examined every avenue for building a team. It’s unlikely anyone could match Thompson’s stubbornness when it comes to a draft-only policy.

Even if the Packers find a way to turn things around this season, it does not change the fact the front office needs to modernize its approach to acquiring talent. It seems unlikely that Thompson is capable of doing that and so Murphy is headed toward the toughest decision of his tenure.

It should be an interesting offseason.
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Re: Fire MM and TT/ MM: Silverstein Article, Page 8 

Post#160 » by zmanishere11 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:48 am

This has got to be one of the more important off-seasons in this franchises history.

TT's approach can work, but the fundamental flaw is you have to be literally perfect, and the reality is he just hasn't been. The last 2 drafts lack anyone who could be considered a playmaker on either side of the ball. Just last year in free agency - he let Hayward walk (looking like a top 10 CB at $5 mil a year), while keeping Peppers at twice that, and paying that same $5 mil to Starks / Cook.

My nightmare scenario is: no change up top (TT / MM), we pay any of Nick Perry / Datone Jones / Micah Hyde, bring back Lacy on a 1 year deal, and we keep paying 17% of our cap to Cobb / CM3.

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