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Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup

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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#201 » by th87 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:58 am

Ron Swanson wrote:
books wrote:Remember when we had all-pros Woodson (HOF) and Nick Collins (maybe headed toward HOF) in the secondary? Our D wasn't all that good, except in 2010. In 2009, Woodson and Collins (and Al Harris and Tramon Williams) were on the team that gave up plenty of points in their losses that year (31, 30, 38, 38, 37) and in the playoff loss at Arizona (51, though yes, Al Harris was on IR for that). For the first two games of 2011, Woodson and Collins were on the team when the team gave up 34 and 23 in wins against the Saints and Panthers.

I don't think it's merely a personnel issue. Ok, this year, the CB position was a mess (#1 CB all-pro Shields out all year, #2 battling injury, #4 and #5 on IR). So yes, Capers' hands were tied there.

But otherwise, let's just say you could replace certain guys on our team with guys from other teams. Let's say you could replace Datone Jones on the roster with Brandon Graham. Let's say you could replace Jake Ryan with Eric Kendricks, and replace Morgan Burnett with a healthy Harrison Smith. I think we'd have the same holes in our middle, wondering why we keep allowing 3rd-and-long conversions, wondering why no one's covering the TE near the sideline, wondering why our blitzes aren't getting there. I still would have little confidence that Capers' D would limit the Falcons to 30 or less.


People were killing McCarthy early in the year for the exact same things (same problems carrying over year-to-year, stagnant offense, lack of diverse play-calling and scheme), then predictably, TT for not giving Rodgers enough "weapons" on offense. Then Montgomery emerges in the backfield, Davante breaks out, UDFA Allison comes out of nowhere, Cook and Cobb get healthy. And all of a sudden the talent concerns are gone on offense.

Missing tackles, pass-rushers not shedding blocks, and just not being able to keep up with Julio Jones is one thing and you can just attribute that to "players not plays". Consistently blowing coverages, allowing a pathetic 3rd & long conversion rate, DB's routinely being out of position, and consistently allowing offenses to pick apart the middle of the field is something completely different. But nah, I'm just a "TT groupie" (whatever the hell that means).


It's both. TT and Capers are solid on their own, but horrible together.

Capers' defense relies on savvy veterans - I think Tramon Williams complained about the lack of veteran leadership after some playoff loss (they all blend together now). TT refuses to provide them, relying on young players with upside instead, which would be better suited for a different defense.

Also, the offensive woes were attributable to having no TE. So it's MM's fault for not trying to scheme receivers open, and TT's fault for waiting so long to bring in a TE worth a damn.
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Re: RE: Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#202 » by th87 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:03 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:One thing that I rarely see brought up but i think has had a big impact on the lack of impact players is the packers havent picked in the top 20 in like 10 years so there have been over 200 players they never had a chance to draft. If you look at every good team except the Patriots those teams have benefited from a couple blue chip high picks. Its tough when you have to mine all your talent later the draft. This is where its a very legit criticism of TT using a pure draft and develop approach since thats just so much harder when your picking late and would make sense to offset that with FA.

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It didn't matter from 2005-2011: Rodgers, Collins, Jennings, Nelson, Finley, Sitton, Matthews, Lang, Bulaga, Burnett, and Cobb. Notable UDFAs included Tramon Williams and Shields. All pretty low picks.

Since then? Perry, Hayward, Daniels, Bakhtiari, Clinton-Dix, Adams, and Montgomery.

His drafting has declined considerably. I don't even know if I'd call it good anymore.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#203 » by RRyder823 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:15 am

wichmae wrote:
RRyder823 wrote:
wichmae wrote:If TT would just use some of our damn cap space theres three guys who can all fill that role that are upcoming UFA's. Bouye, Gilmore, and Trumain Johnson. Even guys like Amukumara, Kirkpatrick and Logan Ryan could also potentially do it as well. We have to start bringing in more talent and stop relying on UDFA's to turn into the next Sam Shields.


How bout waiting till we resign Perry, Lang, Tretter and Cook before spending whatever cap space we have left?

This is a very uninspired group of UFA and no FA that you listed inspires confidence. I wouldn't touch it but I get that some people need to see TT be "aggressive" whether it's a good idea or not.



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We have 35 million in space before any renegotiations. Tretter is probably gone. Lang hopefully will take a discount. Perry had a breakout year and might be vastly overpaid. Cook is the top target and has to be back. However youre friggin high if you think Bouye, Johnson, and Gilmore are un-inspiring. This might be the best FA corner class in a decade.


Here's why I call it uninspired. I'm about 99% sure none of those guys are hitting the open market and if they do will get way overpaid.

Might as well add Berry and Chandler Jones to the list of FA targets.

And why the hell would Lang take a discount? A Guard with his last chance to get a huge pay day comming off his 1st Pro Bowl selection most likely isn't looking to take a home town discount



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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#204 » by wichmae » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:43 pm

RRyder823 wrote:
wichmae wrote:
RRyder823 wrote:
How bout waiting till we resign Perry, Lang, Tretter and Cook before spending whatever cap space we have left?

This is a very uninspired group of UFA and no FA that you listed inspires confidence. I wouldn't touch it but I get that some people need to see TT be "aggressive" whether it's a good idea or not.



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We have 35 million in space before any renegotiations. Tretter is probably gone. Lang hopefully will take a discount. Perry had a breakout year and might be vastly overpaid. Cook is the top target and has to be back. However youre friggin high if you think Bouye, Johnson, and Gilmore are un-inspiring. This might be the best FA corner class in a decade.


Here's why I call it uninspired. I'm about 99% sure none of those guys are hitting the open market and if they do will get way overpaid.

Might as well add Berry and Chandler Jones to the list of FA targets.

And why the hell would Lang take a discount? A Guard with his last chance to get a huge pay day comming off his 1st Pro Bowl selection most likely isn't looking to take a home town discount



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Well it sounds like he broke his foot so add that in too. He also wants to stay so that means he's probably willing to take quite a bit less than what he can get on an open market playing for example Jacksonville or the Redskins
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#205 » by RRyder823 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:53 pm

wichmae wrote:
RRyder823 wrote:
wichmae wrote:We have 35 million in space before any renegotiations. Tretter is probably gone. Lang hopefully will take a discount. Perry had a breakout year and might be vastly overpaid. Cook is the top target and has to be back. However youre friggin high if you think Bouye, Johnson, and Gilmore are un-inspiring. This might be the best FA corner class in a decade.


Here's why I call it uninspired. I'm about 99% sure none of those guys are hitting the open market and if they do will get way overpaid.

Might as well add Berry and Chandler Jones to the list of FA targets.

And why the hell would Lang take a discount? A Guard with his last chance to get a huge pay day comming off his 1st Pro Bowl selection most likely isn't looking to take a home town discount



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Well it sounds like he broke his foot so add that in too. He also wants to stay so that means he's probably willing to take quite a bit less than what he can get on an open market playing for example Jacksonville or the Redskins

The broken foot won't lower his value much and if a players saying they want to stay meant anything we should expect 95% of our FAs to take a home town discount every year.

You can hope. It could happen. It's a long shot though. It shouldn't be expected

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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#206 » by James1980 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:48 pm

Lots of our guys took hometown discounts.
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Re: RE: Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#207 » by RRyder823 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:51 pm

James1980 wrote:Lots of our guys took hometown discounts.

And that's still not a reason to just expect one

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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#208 » by Kerb Hohl » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:57 pm

Reports of Bridgewater missing the entire '17 season are coming out.
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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#209 » by Mags FTW » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:12 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:Reports of Bridgewater missing the entire '17 season are coming out.

He'll never be the same. He wasn't a scrambler, but was elusive in the pocket.
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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#210 » by books » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:50 pm

th87 wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:
books wrote:Remember when we had all-pros Woodson (HOF) and Nick Collins (maybe headed toward HOF) in the secondary? Our D wasn't all that good, except in 2010. In 2009, Woodson and Collins (and Al Harris and Tramon Williams) were on the team that gave up plenty of points in their losses that year (31, 30, 38, 38, 37) and in the playoff loss at Arizona (51, though yes, Al Harris was on IR for that). For the first two games of 2011, Woodson and Collins were on the team when the team gave up 34 and 23 in wins against the Saints and Panthers.

I don't think it's merely a personnel issue. Ok, this year, the CB position was a mess (#1 CB all-pro Shields out all year, #2 battling injury, #4 and #5 on IR). So yes, Capers' hands were tied there.

But otherwise, let's just say you could replace certain guys on our team with guys from other teams. Let's say you could replace Datone Jones on the roster with Brandon Graham. Let's say you could replace Jake Ryan with Eric Kendricks, and replace Morgan Burnett with a healthy Harrison Smith. I think we'd have the same holes in our middle, wondering why we keep allowing 3rd-and-long conversions, wondering why no one's covering the TE near the sideline, wondering why our blitzes aren't getting there. I still would have little confidence that Capers' D would limit the Falcons to 30 or less.


People were killing McCarthy early in the year for the exact same things (same problems carrying over year-to-year, stagnant offense, lack of diverse play-calling and scheme), then predictably, TT for not giving Rodgers enough "weapons" on offense. Then Montgomery emerges in the backfield, Davante breaks out, UDFA Allison comes out of nowhere, Cook and Cobb get healthy. And all of a sudden the talent concerns are gone on offense.

Missing tackles, pass-rushers not shedding blocks, and just not being able to keep up with Julio Jones is one thing and you can just attribute that to "players not plays". Consistently blowing coverages, allowing a pathetic 3rd & long conversion rate, DB's routinely being out of position, and consistently allowing offenses to pick apart the middle of the field is something completely different. But nah, I'm just a "TT groupie" (whatever the hell that means).


It's both. TT and Capers are solid on their own, but horrible together.

Capers' defense relies on savvy veterans - I think Tramon Williams complained about the lack of veteran leadership after some playoff loss (they all blend together now). TT refuses to provide them, relying on young players with upside instead, which would be better suited for a different defense.

Also, the offensive woes were attributable to having no TE. So it's MM's fault for not trying to scheme receivers open, and TT's fault for waiting so long to bring in a TE worth a damn.


Yep. TT might be a good fit with MM, but not so much with Capers. I think Capers is culpable here because TT's the boss, so Capers needs to adjust. Don't require the scheme to depend on veterans everywhere.

But on the other side, this might go back to TT not being great with people (like with Favre), maybe TT doesn't make it easy for Capers to tell him what kind of players he wants.
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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#211 » by PkrsBcksGphsMqt » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:21 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:Reports of Bridgewater missing the entire '17 season are coming out.


I wonder if they've begun taking down all of the murals they had of him in the new stadium. I couldn't believe how many they had when I went to a concert there before the season started. Probably jinxed him.
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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#212 » by Mags FTW » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:50 pm

PkrsBcksGphsMqt wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:Reports of Bridgewater missing the entire '17 season are coming out.


I wonder if they've begun taking down all of the murals they had of him in the new stadium. I couldn't believe how many they had when I went to a concert there before the season started. Probably jinxed him.

I knew how much their fans overrated him, but I'm surprised the franchise would put that much pressure on him. Guess they were forced to find a new face after AP fiasco.

Can Bradford stay healthy 2 years in a row? I bet a lot of Viking fans are nervous about that.
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Re: Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup 

Post#213 » by Profound23 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:44 am

Feel awful for Bridgewater.

As far as the Vikings, maybe they should trade their 2018 first rounder for another mediocre to average QB: Colin Kaepernick, Brock Osweiller.

Seriously, we should offer Hundley for their 2017 2nd round pick and a 2018 1st round pick just to see if they will bite. Put Callahan as the 2nd string and draft someone in the later rounds.
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