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Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks

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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1741 » by bdpecore » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:45 pm

Which team's front office would you say is second in the league behind New England's?


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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1742 » by Mags FTW » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:01 pm

bdpecore wrote:Which team's front office would you say is second in the league behind New England's?

If Carr didn't get hurt, a lot of people might say Oakland.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1743 » by Profound23 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:02 pm

bdpecore wrote:Which team's front office would you say is second in the league behind New England's?


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During the time Belichick has gotten his 7 superbowl appearances and 5 wins:

-Steelers 3 appearances, 2 wins
-Seahawks have been to 3 and won 1, although one of those was under a previous regime so they are 1 win, 2 appearances
-Giants have been to 2 and won 2
-Packers have been to 1 and won 1
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Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1744 » by bdpecore » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:18 pm

Profound23 wrote:
bdpecore wrote:Which team's front office would you say is second in the league behind New England's?


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During the time Belichick has gotten his 7 superbowl appearances and 5 wins:

-Steelers 3 appearances, 2 wins
-Seahawks have been to 3 and won 1, although one of those was under a previous regime so they are 1 win, 2 appearances
-Giants have been to 2 and won 2
-Packers have been to 1 and won 1

So you're saying the Steelers are #2 and the Packers are 5th and you base your opinion solely on Super Bowl appearances and wins?


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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1745 » by El Duderino » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:21 pm

bdpecore wrote:It's not about drafting better, it's about crucifying Ted when he lets an aging/declining veteran like Lang or Sutton go but then states "New England's front office dwarfs every other front office in the league by a mile" which just isn't true. Are they the best? Yes. But their are things ours does better or on par with theirs.


You are over-exaggerating how many here feel about Ted.

I think most believe he's a quality GM overall, but are simply tired of him putting very mediocre to crappy defenses on the field. It's happened far to often since he took over as GM.

For whatever reason he's been far better at building quality offensive lines and receiving cores around Rodgers than talented defensive units.

Nobody would care about Ted's conservative philosophy is it resulted in more talented defensive units. It hasn't though. Far to often Aaron and the offense have had to carry mediocre to bad defenses. Enough with excuses for why this keeps happening. Last year wasn't some fluke outlier.

Rodgers is a HOF quarterback who will continue seeing years of greatness wasted because Ted can't put together better defenses. The time for yearly yea but excuses are over for me.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1746 » by Profound23 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:26 pm

bdpecore wrote:
Profound23 wrote:
bdpecore wrote:Which team's front office would you say is second in the league behind New England's?


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During the time Belichick has gotten his 7 superbowl appearances and 5 wins:

-Steelers 3 appearances, 2 wins
-Seahawks have been to 3 and won 1, although one of those was under a previous regime so they are 1 win, 2 appearances
-Giants have been to 2 and won 2
-Packers have been to 1 and won 1

So you're saying the Steelers are #2 and the Packers are 5th and you base your opinion solely on Super Bowl appearances and wins?


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I am saying there is no clear cut #2 and I put these four in the same category. As of right now if I had to pick I would take Seattle. However, yes Superbowls are what it is all about.

Now that I answered your question, will you answer mine that I have asked at least 3 times. If the 49ers draft Rodgers, is Ted:

1.) Still Green Bay's GM
2.) Another team's GM
3.) A scout in the NFL
4.) Out of the NFL

IMO, he would be a scout somewhere by now.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1747 » by ak7 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:27 pm

Profound23 wrote:
bdpecore wrote:
Profound23 wrote:
C'mon no credit at all....Just off the top of my head.

-Trading Deion Branch to the Seahawks for a 1st before his big payday. then trading his second for Wes Welker and a 4th for Randy Moss.
-Matt Cassell (before his big payday) and Mike Vrabel (at the end of his career) for a 2nd
-Richard Seymour before his big pay day for a 1st from Oakland

Even now he is being offered 1sts for a guy who was undrafted a few years ago and will do it as long as Revis comes there. If not, he will find a plan b, c, d.....etc.


Even when he let players go for nothing, he acquired better talent...case in point Lawyer Milloy for Rodney Harrison. I don't get where this 4th round pick talk is coming from. The deal they made was if the Browns get a 3rd round comp pick (which they did) it will go to the Pats for Collin, and if they didn't they would get the Browns 4th round pick (top of the 4th round). Either way, they traded a player they weren't going to sign for a 3rd round pick, or at worst the first pick of the 4th round. Now, he could also go and sign someone like Gilmore without worrying about his comp pick net gain, he already gets his pick for this draft. This is a pattern he has lived off of, he is just as frugal as Ted, but he is smarter than Ted in almost every way. He doesn't wait until players are completely washed up and just dump them, he sees when they are still valuable but won't be soon and gets rid of them. The year before Mayo retired, Belichick new he found his younger replacement in Hightower and had a deal in the works for him until he tore a tendon and then retired the next year. So you are right, maybe he isn't ALWAYS ahead of the 8ball but he is damn sure close to it.

I am not denying the foresight of the Bill Belichick. It's undeniable he's the best in the league. But to say he is miles ahead of someone like Ted is not accurate. Does he make more moves and take more chances? Yes but sometimes the best move is to not make one. On a side note, after looking back Bill seems to rape the Saints quite often on trades. You'd think New Orleans would figure it out and stop dealing with Bill but they just keep on giving up value.


One GM: 1 superbowl appearance, 1 superbowl win

The other GM: 7 superbowl appearances, 5 superbowl wins

Yeah, barring some crazy hot streak over the next 10 years by the Packers where we make the Superbowl every other year and win at least 3-4 of those.....Belicheck is more than miles, but lightyears ahead of Ted and keeps proving it every year by the moves he is making.


You're asking people to take off the green and gold shades and admit that their overrated front office is in fact inferior to the most successful front office in the history of the game.

You'd expect this to be a bit easier, but whatever lol. They are miles ahead of our front office. It proves in nearly EVERY measurable way possible.

I get that the Packers want to continue to sustain what they consider to be success because the minute they start losing for a period of years, things will get ugly up here, just like in years past.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1748 » by bdpecore » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:30 pm

El Duderino wrote:
bdpecore wrote:It's not about drafting better, it's about crucifying Ted when he lets an aging/declining veteran like Lang or Sutton go but then states "New England's front office dwarfs every other front office in the league by a mile" which just isn't true. Are they the best? Yes. But their are things ours does better or on par with theirs.


You are over-exaggerating how many here feel about Ted.

I think most believe he's a quality GM overall, but are simply tired of him putting very mediocre to crappy defenses on the field. It's happened far to often since he took over as GM.

For whatever reason he's been far better at building quality offensive lines and receiving cores around Rodgers than talented defensive units.

Nobody would care about Ted's conservative philosophy is it resulted in more talented defensive units. It hasn't though. Far to often Aaron and the offense have had to carry mediocre to bad defenses. Enough with excuses for why this keeps happening. Last year wasn't some fluke outlier.

Rodgers is a HOF quarterback who will continue seeing years of greatness wasted because Ted can't put together better defenses. The time for yearly yea but excuses are over for me.

I agree with this. I think our front office took a significant hit when we lost Schneider to Seattle. I also wish Ted made more trades of players whose teams are trying to clear cap space or willing to unload our players who he doesn't plan on resigning but maybe he doesn't do the later because he's not being offered picks as high as he believes they will net him in the compensatory equation. Regardless he has no doubt made some head scratching decision over the years.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1749 » by Profound23 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:45 pm

ak7 wrote:
bdpecore wrote:
Profound23 wrote:
When Ted starts trading his players for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks then using that saved money to sign players better than the ones he gave up we will all support him.

Who all has New England traded for 1-3 picks? Butler is a RFA, Collins was traded for a compensatory 3rd or Cleveland's 4th and right now it's looking like it will be the 4th. Who else am I missing?


Chandler Jones for a 2nd and Cooper off the top of my head - I am sure that there is more.

Not to mention all of the trades they've made for impact players. Aqib Talib off the top of my head was traded for peanuts.


They traded a 4th for Talib, used him for two years, then let him signed with the Broncos and received a 4th round comp pick for him. We could have done the same thing for Lynch if we wanted to, or we could have just kept Lynch after trading for him.

Ted is good, like the old saying goes: the enemy of greatness is good. Settling for just good enough. There was a post about New England's 2013 draft being worse than ours and I agreed with that, however because of the other moves Bill makes he can afford to have a clunker here and there. Ted, can't...especially when it comes to the defense this year. He has backed himself into a corner now and barring a miracle, this defense is going to be worse than it was last year. Bill had a terrible draft, but instead of backing himself into a corner traded a couple of those players for picks and acquired talent elsewhere. He is the only GM I won't laugh at for trading a first for Cooks, because every year he has so many ways he can acquire another 1st it's ridiculous.

For anyone to not say Ted isn't miles behind him is like Bob Ueker saying:

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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1750 » by El Duderino » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:48 pm

bdpecore wrote:Which team's front office would you say is second in the league behind New England's?


This can be hard to quantify sometimes when a select few teams have a special QB and most others don't. That goes for both Ted and Belichick.

Quarterbacks as truly great as Brady and Rodgers are, they cover for so many warts on a roster that GM's of other teams don't have the luxury of.

Granted, both Ted and Belichick drafted their special quarterbacks, but it's like having a free pass to the playoffs every year so long as the roster around them isn't terrible. Can't say anything to argue against though with 7 Super Bowls and 5 titles.

A better question would be if you hypothetically put the same decent QB on every team, which teams would do best but even that's dicey because teams build differently based on whether they view themselves a contender or not.

Ted started out amazing as GM, but if you gave any number of other GM's Aaron Rodgers for a decade, how many others would have more than just one Super Bowl appearance? Pure guesswork, while acknowledging Ted was the one to draft Aaron.
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Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1751 » by bdpecore » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:48 pm

Profound23 wrote:
bdpecore wrote:
Profound23 wrote:

During the time Belichick has gotten his 7 superbowl appearances and 5 wins:

-Steelers 3 appearances, 2 wins
-Seahawks have been to 3 and won 1, although one of those was under a previous regime so they are 1 win, 2 appearances
-Giants have been to 2 and won 2
-Packers have been to 1 and won 1

So you're saying the Steelers are #2 and the Packers are 5th and you base your opinion solely on Super Bowl appearances and wins?


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I am saying there is no clear cut #2 and I put these four in the same category. As of right now if I had to pick I would take Seattle. However, yes Superbowls are what it is all about.

Now that I answered your question, will you answer mine that I have asked at least 3 times. If the 49ers draft Rodgers, is Ted:

1.) Still Green Bay's GM
2.) Another team's GM
3.) A scout in the NFL
4.) Out of the NFL

IMO, he would be a scout somewhere by now.

Its really difficult to predict what would have happened. I guess it would depend on who we wound up drafting or trading for to replace Farve. It could have been Andy Dalton in 2011 or someone like Josh Freeman who didn't really pan out. I think he would still be a GM in the league based on track record leading up to Farve retiring. If it's still for the Packers he would have had to kept us somewhat competitive over the years.

Edit: there is a possibility we could have won a second SB with Farve when he had his resurgence season in 2009 and lost to New Orleans in the NFC championship game.

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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1752 » by Profound23 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:56 pm

El Duderino wrote:
bdpecore wrote:Which team's front office would you say is second in the league behind New England's?


This can be hard to quantify sometimes when a select few teams have a special QB and most others don't. That goes for both Ted and Belichick.

Quarterbacks as truly great as Brady and Rodgers are, they cover for so many warts on a roster that GM's of other teams don't have the luxury of.

Granted, both Ted and Belichick drafted their special quarterbacks, but it's like having a free pass to the playoffs every year so long as the roster around them isn't terrible. Can't say anything to argue against though with 7 Super Bowls and 5 titles.

A better question would be if you hypothetically put the same decent QB on every team, which teams would do best but even that's dicey because teams build differently based on whether they view themselves a contender or not.

Ted started out amazing as GM, but if you gave any number of other GM's Aaron Rodgers for a decade, how many others would have more than just on Super Bowl appearance? Pure guesswork, while acknowledging Ted was the one to draft Aaron.



Agreed, and I would add just drafting Rodgers (once he finally showed what he can do when Favre left) gave Ted a good 7 years of goodwill where many including myself looked past his faults, winning a Superbowl in 2010 gave him about another 7, well that time is up. If this defense actually gets worse this year, which I think it will he should be let go. We face some pretty good offenses this year in ATL, Pitts, Carolina, Saints, and Cowboys. Right now as we sit, barring injuries to those teams, the only way we beat them is in shootouts.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1753 » by El Duderino » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:11 am

bdpecore wrote:
El Duderinoq wrote:
You are over-exaggerating how many here feel about Ted.

I think most believe he's a quality GM overall, but are simply tired of him putting very mediocre to crappy defenses on the field. It's happened far to often since he took over as GM.

For whatever reason he's been far better at building quality offensive lines and receiving cores around Rodgers than talented defensive units.

Nobody would care about Ted's conservative philosophy is it resulted in more talented defensive units. It hasn't though. Far to often Aaron and the offense have had to carry mediocre to bad defenses. Enough with excuses for why this keeps happening. Last year wasn't some fluke outlier.

Rodgers is a HOF quarterback who will continue seeing years of greatness wasted because Ted can't put together better defenses. The time for yearly yea but excuses are over for me.

I agree with this. I think our front office took a significant hit when we lost Schneider to Seattle. I also wish Ted made more trades of players whose teams are trying to clear cap space or willing to unload our players who he doesn't plan on resigning but maybe he doesn't do the later because he's not being offered picks as high as he believes they will net him in the compensatory equation. Regardless he has no doubt made some head scratching decision over the years.


One area i will say Ted has had some bad luck in is career ending injuries to some high end players who were still young.

That neck injury to Nick Collins while still in his prime was devastating. Now Ted did annoy me in waiting to long to address that void at safety with scrubs like MJ Jennings, but that was a crushing blow losing Collins. Finley also suffered a neck injury and TE quickly went from a strength to weakness, but again it took to long to make the position stronger. Then this year Shields lost his career while in his prime to concussions, at a position the team lacked any other high end talents.

Playmakers in their prime are hard to replace and Collins and Shields were devastating blows to them personally and to the Packers, but the NFL is an unforgiving league given it's so violent nature.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1754 » by LikeABosh » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:28 am

Profound23 wrote:
bdpecore wrote:Which team's front office would you say is second in the league behind New England's?


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During the time Belichick has gotten his 7 superbowl appearances and 5 wins:

-Steelers 3 appearances, 2 wins
-Seahawks have been to 3 and won 1, although one of those was under a previous regime so they are 1 win, 2 appearances
-Giants have been to 2 and won 2
-Packers have been to 1 and won 1


Denver should be included. Elway made a lot of big moves.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1755 » by Wisky4life » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:31 am

It is almost like we let players go in free agency for free while the Pats trade the player on their final deal before the big payday. It's a gamble for both ways but is how the Pats are staying ahead of everyone else.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1756 » by M-C-G » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:49 am

Cool twenty pages of how Ted isn't Bellicheck. Got it.


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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1757 » by bdpecore » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:44 am

Wisky4life wrote:It is almost like we let players go in free agency for free while the Pats trade the player on their final deal before the big payday. It's a gamble for both ways but is how the Pats are staying ahead of everyone else.

Yeah Ted values the comp picks and extra season of his players while Bill is willing to deal them early for picks or other players.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1758 » by th87 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:35 am

bdpecore wrote:
ak7 wrote:
Profound23 wrote:So the Pats, who traded 32nd pick for Cooks are in talks of trading Butler to the Saints for pick 11 and signing Revis the league minimum.

The reason Revis is supposedly giving them the first shot? They were the first team that contacted him that were in the playoffs last year.

So if this happens, they will have traded pick 32, Logan Ryan and Butler for pick 11, Cooks, Gilmore, and Revis.


Their front office dwarfs every other front office in the league by a mile and it's not even close/funny.

Then why uses the same "better to move on from a player a year to early than a year to late" philosophy he is crucified for it but Belichick is considered a genius? I know Ted isn't as active via free agency and trades but he is the better drafter of the two.


This is like bragging about Derrick Rose being a better dunker than Chris Paul.
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1759 » by M-C-G » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:10 am

So because Cook was with us, I will comment here...nice first impression he made on the Raiders. Journeyman TE finally lands a deal, and then says he wants to "bribe" the star player on the team for his number. I'm sure it was made in fun, but WTF
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Re: Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks 

Post#1760 » by Profound23 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:38 am

M-C-G wrote:Cool twenty pages of how Ted isn't Bellicheck. Got it.


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Way to summarize and ignore the details, you tend to do that a lot and get irritated about intelligent conversation. If you don't like it, there is an ignore button or you can continue your 3rd grade sarcasm.
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