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ATL: 2024 Offseason - Diggs to HOU
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 2:24 pm
by MickeyDavis
Last thread maxed out. Here are the last couple of posts to carry over
skones wrote:ReginaldDwight wrote:skones wrote:
There's no way I can justify Lamar Jackson as MVP with his lack of statistical production. Dude's accounted for 24 total TDs this year as a QB. It's nothing more than just defaulting to the best teams QB and that just feels insane. The idea that merely acknowledging this MAJOR hole in his resume is somehow "disrespect" doesn't make a lick of sense. Their rushing attack ASIDE from Lamar has found paydirt 19 times this season and rushed for 1,609 yards, why are we just turning a blind eye to that?
His stats are fine IMO, 800 yards rushing and a lot of that is drive saving runs for first downs. Its gonna be CMC but for me Lamar is the MVP.
NFL MVP Total Yard Rank:
2022 Mahomes #1
2021 Rodgers #10
2020 Rodgers #8
2019 Jackson #7
2018 Mahomes #1
2017 Brady #1
2016 Ryan #2
2015 Newton #9
2014 Rodgers #6
2013 Manning #1
Total TD Rank:
2022 Mahomes #1
2021 Rodgers #7
2020 Rodgers #1
2019 Jackson #1
2018 Mahomes #1
2017 Brady #1
2016 Ryan #2
2015 Newton #1
2014 Rodgers #2
2013 Manning #1
Jackson is currently #6 in total yards and #11 in TDs. It'd be one thing if he had an absurd amount of yards to cover the gap, but he's nowhere close. He's a massive outlier.
As for "a lot of that being for drive saving first downs?" That's not a thing based on a run or two against the niners. They're 10th in overall 3rd down conversion percentage.
Ron Swanson wrote:If a RB or WR (McCaffrey or Hill) doesn't win MVP this year then it's never happening again. They can't in good conscience call it anything but the "Quarterback on the best team" award and I think that's a horrible look for the sport.
Re: ATL: Week 17
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 4:55 pm
by MVP2110
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Re: ATL: Week 17
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 5:05 pm
by stillgotgame
Ron Swanson wrote:If a RB or WR (McCaffrey or Hill) doesn't win MVP this year then it's never happening again. They can't in good conscience call it anything but the "Quarterback on the best team" award and I think that's a horrible look for the sport.
Tyreek gets my vote. He opens the field up for everyone else, gets doubled and still is going to get close to 2000 yards receiving.
I like Lamar too, but not quite MVP worthy this year.
Re: ATL: Week 17
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 5:42 pm
by Ron Swanson
Officially the worst trade in NFL history.
Re: ATL: Week 17
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 5:51 pm
by skones
Ron Swanson wrote:Officially the worst trade in NFL history.
Eh, Wilson has been fine this season. He's being benched for skeezy bs to avoid guarantees kicking in.
Re: ATL: Week 17
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 6:15 pm
by WeekapaugGroove
Ron Swanson wrote:Officially the worst trade in NFL history.
It's been a disaster of a trade but I can't call it the worst in history because I consider trading a 1st and 2nd for the privilege of giving Sean Payton a giant contract to be worse. The fact they made those deals in back to back years is hilarious. The hell with the Broncos, I'm petty and still root against them for beating the Packers in 98.
Oh and the Panthers, Young trade is a strong contender. We've seen some real assinine GM'ing recently.
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Re: ATL: Week 17
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 6:16 pm
by Ron Swanson
skones wrote:Ron Swanson wrote:Officially the worst trade in NFL history.
Eh,
Wilson has been fine this season. He's being benched for skeezy bs to avoid guarantees kicking in.
He definitely has not.
Re: ATL: Week 17
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 6:21 pm
by MickeyDavis
After everything was said and done with the Herschel Walker trade the Cowboys got 3 firsts, 3 seconds and a third for Walker and 2 thirds. Dallas used some of those picks in deals to draft Emmit Smith, Darren Woodson and Russell Maryland.
Saints traded all of their picks in 1999 plus first and second rounder in 2000 for Ricky Williams.
Those trades were pretty bad
. So was the Hadl trade for GB (2 firsts, 2 seconds and a third)
Re: ATL: Week 17
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 6:29 pm
by MickeyDavis
Re: ATL: Week 17
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 6:31 pm
by Ron Swanson
I think with how valuable draft picks are in the NFL compared to even 25-years ago, this clearly trumps the Walker and Ricky Williams trades in awfulness. The Saints still got two 1,000+ yard rushing seasons from Ricky and made the playoffs. Wilson has been a bottom-5 and bottom-10 starting QB last year and this season respectively. The signs were already there his final year in Seattle. He's washed.
Re: ATL: Week 17
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 6:33 pm
by WeekapaugGroove
The Dallas/Walker deal will always stand out not only for the crazy package but probably more so because somehow Dallas absolutely nailed basically every pick they got back. They had just a hell of a draft heater during that run.
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Re: ATL: Week 17
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 6:41 pm
by Treebeard
WeekapaugGroove wrote:The Dallas/Walker deal will always stand out not only for the crazy package but probably more so because somehow Dallas absolutely nailed basically every pick they got back. They had just a hell of a draft heater during that run.
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Dynasty that followed.
Re: ATL: Week 17
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 6:57 pm
by WeekapaugGroove
Just did a little googling and I want amend my previous statement, it was really a quantity thing that lead to all the quality. I knew they had a lot of picks but holy ****, in 1991 they had 3 1sts, 1 2nd, 3 3rds, 4 4ths.
That's absurd. Luke Musgraves dad Bill was on the the 4ths in 91.
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Re: ATL: Week 17
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 6:58 pm
by Treebeard
I wonder how the Rogers trade will appear in 2-3 years. Personally, I think the Jets got the 39year old, fading mobility Rogers with a mended thumb. I will also be curious to see how he's mended from the Achilles problem. He's still going to be a high mileage 40 year old (or 41?) next fall. Will power is a wonderful, if fickle, drug.
And no, It's no where near any of the disasterous trades discussed above. The Rogers trade is a seemingly fair deal on its face.
Re: ATL: Week 17
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 7:33 pm
by skones
Ron Swanson wrote:skones wrote:Ron Swanson wrote:Officially the worst trade in NFL history.
Eh,
Wilson has been fine this season. He's being benched for skeezy bs to avoid guarantees kicking in.
He definitely has not.
I mean, I don't know where your bar is for "fine," but it seems like it should be lower than the projected 3500 yards 29 TDs 9 picks, and 4ish additional rushing TDs with a bounce back from a 1-5 start and a 77.5 PFF grade. He's been nowhere near the total abomination he was last season. They're making him the fall guy this year and I don't think it's warranted. It'd be akin to folks here piling all of the blame on Jordan Love for the Packers sitting at 7-8.
Don't get me wrong, I think Wilson is a phony doucher, but again, this is a scapegoat situation.
Re: ATL: Week 17
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 8:08 pm
by Ron Swanson
If you can find a metric that has Wilson as better than a bottom 3rd starting QB other than basic passer-rating and PFF, I'd welcome it. You completely lost me with even the suggestion that Love and Wilson have been comparable this season. That's absurd.
Re: ATL: Week 17
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 8:09 pm
by jute2003
Treebeard wrote:I wonder how the Rogers trade will appear in 2-3 years. Personally, I think the Jets got the 39year old, fading mobility Rogers with a mended thumb. I will also be curious to see how he's mended from the Achilles problem. He's still going to be a high mileage 40 year old (or 41?) next fall. Will power is a wonderful, if fickle, drug.
And no, It's no where near any of the disasterous trades discussed above. The Rogers trade is a seemingly fair deal on its face.
Obviously it depends on if he can give them anything at all moving forward.(he wasn't looking spry before he popped the achilles)
If he is a shell next year and goes the way of the Russel Wilson, the trade will look pretty damn good for the packers and pretty damn bad for the jets. I think at worst, it'll look like GB got fair value.
Re: ATL: Week 17
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 8:38 pm
by ReginaldDwight
Treebeard wrote:I wonder how the Rogers trade will appear in 2-3 years. Personally, I think the Jets got the 39year old, fading mobility Rogers with a mended thumb. I will also be curious to see how he's mended from the Achilles problem. He's still going to be a high mileage 40 year old (or 41?) next fall. Will power is a wonderful, if fickle, drug.
And no, It's no where near any of the disasterous trades discussed above. The Rogers trade is a seemingly fair deal on its face.
Fair but it also is going to put the jets on pause for 3 seasons while they deal with a Rodgers who couldnt move as well as he could before even before the blown up tendon, and his arm is noticeably weaker from his prime. One of Rodgers big plus in my mind was he could take that 10 year run to extend drives when needed, its a super underrated trait for qbs to have. I was looking at Lamar has 50 first down scrambles this year thats a big weapon to have.
Re: ATL: Week 17
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 11:35 pm
by coolhandluke121
Treebeard wrote:I wonder how the Rogers trade will appear in 2-3 years. Personally, I think the Jets got the 39year old, fading mobility Rogers with a mended thumb. I will also be curious to see how he's mended from the Achilles problem. He's still going to be a high mileage 40 year old (or 41?) next fall. Will power is a wonderful, if fickle, drug.
And no, It's no where near any of the disasterous trades discussed above. The Rogers trade is a seemingly fair deal on its face.
Forget the Jets deal; I can't help but wonder what we'd be talking about if the Packers had traded Rodgers to the Broncos for the Wilson haul when they had the chance, like many of us wanted to after his last MVP season. Would be nice to be the team on the other side of one of those all-time bad trades.
Re: ATL: Week 17
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 11:51 pm
by Treebeard
coolhandluke121 wrote:Treebeard wrote:I wonder how the Rogers trade will appear in 2-3 years. Personally, I think the Jets got the 39year old, fading mobility Rogers with a mended thumb. I will also be curious to see how he's mended from the Achilles problem. He's still going to be a high mileage 40 year old (or 41?) next fall. Will power is a wonderful, if fickle, drug.
And no, It's no where near any of the disasterous trades discussed above. The Rogers trade is a seemingly fair deal on its face.
Forget the Jets deal; I can't help but wonder what we'd be talking about if the Packers had traded Rodgers to the Broncos for the Wilson haul when they had the chance, like many of us wanted to after his last MVP season. Would be nice to be the team on the other side of one of those all-time bad trades.
The Denver deal is what SHOULD have happened. I understand that there was Packer FO fear about trading the MVP, but better a year too soon than a year too late, and all that.