Game 2: Pacers @ Raptors 12/28/2011

[Miller4ever]

George Hill isn't confident right now for whatever reason. Collison got 38 minutes tonight and had a +16 in the plus/minus column, which, compared to everyone else on the team, points to him being the catalyst tonight. Even though he would get trapped and made some mistakes, the team plays better with his speed and spot-up ability on the floor. George Hill didn't have that same effect. I'm hoping the guy who was making Tony Parker's job unsafe in San Antonio shows up soon.

[Indy2thaWindy]

Oladipo can ball. He'll be a good pro.

[Pacersike]

2 steals are not going to make up for all the open looks he gave Calderon and others.
Nor for the lack of creating offense.
He just got an assist when falling on the ground cause he couldn't dribble anyone again even with the help of a screen.

I don't understand why he is getting so many minutes and Hill and Lance so few.

His man, on-ball defense leaves something to desired. I don't understand it because he's quick enough, he just struggles to slide his feet laterally.

But I don't think there's a question that he's the best point guard on this roster. You can tell the starters are much more comfortable with him running the show than Hill or Lance.

Hill can run back up point in spot minutes, but I'm not sure how much trust Vogel has in Lance's decision making at this point.

I don't feel like Collison tries hard enough. He can be extremely quick at occasions (look at his steals) so he should be able to play good defense.

Hill is just as good as a player as Collison overall, but gets half the minutes.
I know he is stone cold for the moment, but he can be useful just like Jones who just can not shoot a ball.

Do we really need to fall behind in the game to give Lance his minutes? What's wrong with giving him a couple of minutes?

[Indy2thaWindy]

Christian Watford's J is so beautiful. It puts Ray Allen's to shame.

[Indy2thaWindy]

When I watch Darren Collison I say to myself it cant get any worse. Then I watch IU's point guards and realize I am wrong. They need Yogi now.

[Solid]

Really glad to see West drill that winner. It was starting to remind me of the Chicago series. Nice to see us stay cool and prevail. That's confidence building.

West has given us all I had hoped:
Granger finds better shots.
Roy has more space.
Rebounding looks great.
Collison doesn't feel the need to shoot so much and concentrates on the floor game.
Overall ball movement is just much better.

Hansbourgh is a junkyard dog!
I liked Amundsons contribution, wish he were an inch or two taller!
Hibb's hookshot looking formidable.
Would'a liked to see Lance get some burn But Collison had a strong game.

[Wizop]

Where the fascination for Collison comes from, I have no clue.

didn't like his double double?

[Indy2thaWindy]

Where the fascination for Collison comes from, I have no clue.

didn't like his double double?

The box score makes his game look better than it actually was. Anybody could have gotten that double-double against Calderon and Bayless. Collison can't put the ball where shooters want it and he doesn't time his passes well at all. Looking at the boxscore makes him look like he was actually making plays when he wasn't. The plays that he did make were on the fastbreak D. Those breakups were huge. I'll definitely give him his credit where it's due but he wasn't really making plays on offense. He almost missed D-West at the end on that jumper. West just made an amazing shot. His half court D wasn't very good either, Calderon just couldn't buy a bucket.

[Kuq_e_Zi91]

I don't feel like Collison tries hard enough. He can be extremely quick at occasions (look at his steals) so he should be able to play good defense.

Hill is just as good as a player as Collison overall, but gets half the minutes.
I know he is stone cold for the moment, but he can be useful just like Jones who just can not shoot a ball.

Do we really need to fall behind in the game to give Lance his minutes? What's wrong with giving him a couple of minutes?

I don't think this was a game that you could play Lance in.

As bad as Collison's defense is sometimes, Lance is even more lost. And at this point in his career, he makes too many poor decisions because he often tries to make the flashy pass.

He'll get better, and he'll get his minutes this season because we need to go deep into our bench on back-to-backs and even back-to-back-to-backs. But I agree with Vogel's decision not to play him this game.

I'm not too worried about Hill. He learned from the best in San Antonio about how to be a professional. After a game this season where he shot poorly, he went straight to the gym to work on his shot. I have confidence in him.

Plus, we have to remember that David West at least has some experience playing with Collison. Hill is coming into a completely new situation. He just needs to find his comfort zone, and that will come the more time these guys play together.

[IndyMac]

Some of you guys just aren't happy unless you're hating on someone.

[Indy2thaWindy]

As bad as Collison's defense is sometimes, Lance is even more lost.

This is not true. Lance left his man once in the Detroit game to help out in the post and gave up a 3. Collison does it all the time. He's 6' 160lbs. He's really not gonna stop anybody in the paint. Collison runs under every screen and gives up open jump shots. His D is relies on his man having an off shooting night. That's not D at all. He's as lost as you can get.

[God Squad]

Raps fan here. Great game. George is looking real legit. Goodluck guys.

[daschysta]

As bad as Collison's defense is sometimes, Lance is even more lost.

This is not true. Lance left his man once in the Detroit game to help out in the post and gave up a 3. Collison does it all the time. He's 6' 160lbs. He's really not gonna stop anybody in the paint. Collison runs under every screen and gives up open jump shots. His D is relies on his man having an off shooting night. That's not D at all. He's as lost as you can get.

BS. Collison was excellent tonight defensively, and had far, far away the best plus minus on the whole team.

Choosing Collison to gripe about tonight is just pure hate.

[Indy2thaWindy]

As bad as Collison's defense is sometimes, Lance is even more lost.

This is not true. Lance left his man once in the Detroit game to help out in the post and gave up a 3. Collison does it all the time. He's 6' 160lbs. He's really not gonna stop anybody in the paint. Collison runs under every screen and gives up open jump shots. His D is relies on his man having an off shooting night. That's not D at all. He's as lost as you can get.

BS. Collison was excellent tonight defensively, and had far, far away the best plus minus on the whole team.

Choosing Collison to gripe about tonight is just pure hate.

His fastbreak D was great. His halfcourt D wasn't. We won't be playing Magic Johnson's Lakers every night. He has and will continue to get destroyed on D in the halfcourt in most games. It's not hate. You think I want him to be bad? I don't. I just know his game.

[Miller4ever]

Destroyed is a bald-faced exaggeration. He gives up size, but does a good job of pestering and ballhawking. He'll have troubles against Derrick Rose (who doesn't?) and Deron Williams-type strong guards, but he's fine. Not excellent, not terrible, fine. I don't know why a couple of open shots (which happens to the best of defenders) in a game causes you to go into panic mode over his defense. I think you don't want him to be bad for the sake of his team, but can't help but enlarge every little flaw in his game because you don't want him playing those minutes.

[jowglenn]

Wow, where on earth is all this Collison hate coming from??? I mean jesus f-ing christ, you people are being ridiculously critical of a guy who has played well. He's a good floor general, runs fast breaks well (it's not collison's fault hibbert fumbled the ball away like 3 times on good passes) and defended perfectly fine.

I mean, seriously, how can anyone in their right mind say he's a bad player??? He's not a star, he won't be making any all-star games in his career, but he's a very competent guy who doesn't make big mistakes.

And Indy2thaWindy, if we had a PG tandem of prime Gary Payton and Magic Johnson, you'd still find some way to claim we need to give more minutes to Lance, so frankly, your opinion on DC isn't worth very much. I mean, seriously, you have been a ridiculous lance-worshipper since the day he was drafted, and if you can't build him up, you'll tear down DC to make Lance look better. Stop it already, and support our players.

[Grang33r]

Couple things-

1. I like Collision but the main idea behind "bashing" him is, as a GM/President of a team, you are NEVER done looking to improve your roster. Unless Indy makes a drastic move, they can not improve at any other position BUT at point guard. They wanted to add a scoring guard and who knows if they still are trying? But, when starters are concerned, they can improve at point guard. Our friend Bill Simmons suggested tonight Indy go after Steve Nash.

2. Pacers are not sold on Collision either. If they were, they wouldn't have looked to get a George Hill. Second, if they were sold on him, they wouldn't have called Boston about Rajon Rondo. Theres a difference between Boston trying to land Chris Paul and them calling around to see if they can find a 3rd team and Bird/Morway being interested, then us going to call them and seeing if they get Paul, maybe we can work out a package.

3. On a different topic, can someone explain to me this- I've watched many NBA related shows, either ESPN shows, NBATV or pre-game shows on ABC, ESPN or TNT and everyone has the same thought process, and when that many people say it, it usually means it's true. They say, to have success in a 66-game sprint of a season, you need to go deep to your bench. You need to limit playing time to guys who normally would play big minutes. Now, our first game, we blew Detroit out but the starters played pretty much to the final whistle, and tonight, we used a 4-men bench again, including Lou Amundson, who i was very impressed with, for only 9 minutes. We used a 4-men bench opening night too, with Lance Stephenson getting peanut minutes. Doesn't make sense to me.

[Indy2thaWindy]

It has nothing to do with Lance. Collison is just a terrible basketball player. If it was about Lance getting minutes I would have been against the Rondo trade, yet I was one of the biggest supporters of bringing in Rondo. And if we brought in Rondo then Lance wouldn't ever get to play. I'm sorry I don't see Collison the same way you do. He's just not a very good basketball player. I complain about Lance not getting minutes because he's a much better player than Collison. If Collison was good I wouldn't mind, but he's not.

[Pacersike]

If I can not bash Collison, who else am I going to pick on?

Jones? Everyone is on his tail already.

Hibbert? He doesn't get so many minutes and he gets protected against himself by not being allowed to finish games for example.

With Dunleavy and Posey gone and Price not getting any minutes, I have to bash DC.

Some of you guys just aren't happy unless you're hating on someone.

Don't give me that moral crap. Just because you are a most satisfied person who never picks on anyone, doesn't mean only some folks do it. I will have to do my very best to throw as much crap to Darrens head as Rush got in all those years.

Where the fascination for Collison comes from, I have no clue.

didn't like his double double?

I like it very much. Makes him much easier to sell to people who have seen enough when they have seen his basic stats.

[daschysta]

Was that you just admitting that you hate for hates sake, and justify it by "i'm not the only one"? Well if so that was very informative, and will be kept in mind when placing value into your future insight.