Pacers Trying to Trade for Goran Dragic

[Boneman2]

I know it's been hashed over extensively but with Bledsoe's situation in Phoenix I think we ought to pursue him. Some on the PHO board have said that it never really felt like he wanted to be there. Also, in the event of a S&T, Bledsoe has gained leverage by rejecting their offer and possibly settling for the QO, all but assuring his departure. This might also affect the locations the Suns are able to choose as well. The fact that he is willing to forego this amount tells me he does not lack confidence in himself. A good piece to grow with Paul.

[Scoot McGroot]

I know it's been hashed over extensively but with Bledsoe's situation in Phoenix I think we ought to pursue him. Some on the PHO board have said that it never really felt like he wanted to be there. Also, in the event of a S&T, Bledsoe has gained leverage by rejecting their offer and possibly settling for the QO, all but assuring his departure. This might also affect the locations the Suns are able to choose as well. The fact that he is willing to forego this amount tells me he does not lack confidence in himself. A good piece to grow with Paul.

Pursue Bledsoe? Kid wants a max contract. We don't have any filler to trade for him that Phoenix would want or any value to counter the filler. They might be better off just to let Bledsoe sign the QO and then not be held back by bad contracts.


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[Boneman2]

I know it's been hashed over extensively but with Bledsoe's situation in Phoenix I think we ought to pursue him. Some on the PHO board have said that it never really felt like he wanted to be there. Also, in the event of a S&T, Bledsoe has gained leverage by rejecting their offer and possibly settling for the QO, all but assuring his departure. This might also affect the locations the Suns are able to choose as well. The fact that he is willing to forego this amount tells me he does not lack confidence in himself. A good piece to grow with Paul.

Pursue Bledsoe? Kid wants a max contract. We don't have any filler to trade for him that Phoenix would want or any value to counter the filler. They might be better off just to let Bledsoe sign the QO and then not be held back by bad contracts.


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Also that QO essentially gives potential suitors a chance to confirm his true value before committing a max. If Bledsoe proves healthy then a max is within the realm of possibility, if not then he will lose millions. Either way, it is apparent that teams will not give PHO the assets they expect while guaranteeing such a massive contract. I expect that PHO will try to salvage some value by lowering their expected return. If PHO becomes reasonable on his asking price then we should pursue, even if they don't want our assets a 3-way could suffice.

Also, much like Lance, would Eric accept a similar deal to what is being offered if he can somewhat choose his destination. He doesn't like playing in PHO according to their fans.

It's probably a pipe dream, but we'd be wise to ensure PGeorge's tenure includes a set-up man.

[Scoot McGroot]

I know it's been hashed over extensively but with Bledsoe's situation in Phoenix I think we ought to pursue him. Some on the PHO board have said that it never really felt like he wanted to be there. Also, in the event of a S&T, Bledsoe has gained leverage by rejecting their offer and possibly settling for the QO, all but assuring his departure. This might also affect the locations the Suns are able to choose as well. The fact that he is willing to forego this amount tells me he does not lack confidence in himself. A good piece to grow with Paul.

Pursue Bledsoe? Kid wants a max contract. We don't have any filler to trade for him that Phoenix would want or any value to counter the filler. They might be better off just to let Bledsoe sign the QO and then not be held back by bad contracts.


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Also that QO essentially gives potential suitors a chance to confirm his true value before committing a max. If Bledsoe proves healthy then a max is within the realm of possibility, if not then he will lose millions. Either way, it is apparent that teams will not give PHO the assets they expect while guaranteeing such a massive contract. I expect that PHO will try to salvage some value by lowering their expected return. If PHO becomes reasonable on his asking price then we should pursue, even if they don't want our assets a 3-way could suffice.

Also, much like Lance, would Eric accept a similar deal to what is being offered if he can somewhat choose his destination. He doesn't like playing in PHO according to their fans.

It's probably a pipe dream, but we'd be wise to ensure PGeorge's tenure includes a set-up man.

Well, the problem is, since he's a free agent, he has to sign a new contract as part of the trade. If he signs the QO, he has a no trade clause, and the new team loses his bird rights as part of the trade.

Has to be a S&T. So we have to match big money. What filler do we have other than Scola and his non guaranteed deal? More important, what value do we have to offer Phoenix that they'd want to actually do the deal?


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[Wizop]

I've written this elsewhere so I apologize if you've already heard this from me ... but if we had a way to pay Bledsoe what he wants, we would have used it to pay Lance what he wanted.

[Scoot McGroot]

I've written this elsewhere so I apologize if you've already heard this from me ... but if we had a way to pay Bledsoe what he wants, we would have used it to pay Lance what he wanted.

That's a succinct and accurate way to put it.


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[Boneman2]

I've written this elsewhere so I apologize if you've already heard this from me ... but if we had a way to pay Bledsoe what he wants, we would have used it to pay Lance what he wanted.

Bird specifically said we need a PG. Lance is not a PG, plus it appears that it was time for him to move on, the Pacers could have easily surpassed Charlottes offer at any point during negotiations but they chose not to.

[Scoot McGroot]

I've written this elsewhere so I apologize if you've already heard this from me ... but if we had a way to pay Bledsoe what he wants, we would have used it to pay Lance what he wanted.

Bird specifically said we need a PG. Lance is not a PG, plus it appears that it was time for him to move on, the Pacers could have easily surpassed Charlottes offer at any point during negotiations but they chose not to.

Legally per the CBA? Sure. Logistically and reasonably? No. We offered every dime we had to Lance, and his offer required us to dump Scola and another bigger contract via trade to stay under the tax.

Ultimately, apparently, Bird claims we even gave Lance a player ETO in the 3rd year and he would've made only a couple hundred thousand less here than in Charlotte for the 3 years they control him, yet he went to Charlotte instead.


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[Boneman2]

I've written this elsewhere so I apologize if you've already heard this from me ... but if we had a way to pay Bledsoe what he wants, we would have used it to pay Lance what he wanted.

Bird specifically said we need a PG. Lance is not a PG, plus it appears that it was time for him to move on, the Pacers could have easily surpassed Charlottes offer at any point during negotiations but they chose not to.

Legally per the CBA? Sure. Logistically and reasonably? No. We offered every dime we had to Lance, and his offer required us to dump Scola and another bigger contract via trade to stay under the tax.

Ultimately, apparently, Bird claims we even gave Lance a player ETO in the 3rd year and he would've made only a couple hundred thousand less here than in Charlotte for the 3 years they control him, yet he went to Charlotte instead.


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Interesting

[mikepacernation]

I've written this elsewhere so I apologize if you've already heard this from me ... but if we had a way to pay Bledsoe what he wants, we would have used it to pay Lance what he wanted.

Bird specifically said we need a PG. Lance is not a PG, plus it appears that it was time for him to move on, the Pacers could have easily surpassed Charlottes offer at any point during negotiations but they chose not to.

Legally per the CBA? Sure. Logistically and reasonably? No. We offered every dime we had to Lance, and his offer required us to dump Scola and another bigger contract via trade to stay under the tax.

Ultimately, apparently, Bird claims we even gave Lance a player ETO in the 3rd year and he would've made only a couple hundred thousand less here than in Charlotte for the 3 years they control him, yet he went to Charlotte instead.


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the day he signed with Charlotte I thought that lance didn't wanna be in Indy anymore it all seemed to easy for him. We gave him the better deal in the long run but he ran at the first other offer that was presented to him. We had a team who embraced his attitude an coach that embraced it but he bolted first chance he got.


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[Wizop]

the Kravitz column in today's Star is interesting. he claims we had some player options in our deal and that arguably we had the better offer on the table. if you believe Bob, I think he sometimes shoots from the hip, this may have been about respect. Lance felt he was going to get a DWest type offer rather than a GHill type and he felt disrespected by the offer. I understand the importance of respect in the communities like the one in which Lance grew up, but it should be his agent's job to talk him past that to the best offer and a five year offer with a player out is better than a three year offer with a team out ... assuming the bucks are even.

of course, they weren't completely even. they were several hundred thousand dollars apart. now it is easy to say what's a couple hundred thousand dollars between friends but the difference was more than my entire net worth. I doubt there are many reading this to whom a couple of hundred thousand dollars isn't a big deal. I understand that Lance's old contract was lottery winning type money to most of us, but there wouldn't be a lot left if he paid cash for houses for all of his close relatives. the difference was sizable in relation to what he's made in the past.

which leaves me to wonder why we signed Miles and Rudez when we did. maybe Miles wouldn't have waited for Lance's bargaining to be resolved, but would using what we are going to pay Miles to sweeten Lance's offer have kept him? while having both Lance and Miles would be the prime choice, wouldn't having Lance and Stuckey (or any other veteran taking a minimum contract) have been better than having Miles and Stuckey?

is Rudez more than a second Copeland? if we couldn't find PT for Cope how are we going to find it for Damo? perhaps the answer is that we thought Lance was going to accept an offer that would have required moving Scola and maybe Copeland too leaving Damo and Lavoy to fight to be West's primary backup, but what was the rush?

[8305]

the Kravitz column in today's Star is interesting. he claims we had some player options in our deal and that arguably we had the better offer on the table. if you believe Bob, I think he sometimes shoots from the hip, this may have been about respect. Lance felt he was going to get a DWest type offer rather than a GHill type and he felt disrespected by the offer. I understand the importance of respect in the communities like the one in which Lance grew up, but it should be his agent's job to talk him past that to the best offer and a five year offer with a player out is better than a three year offer with a team out ... assuming the bucks are even.

of course, they weren't completely even. they were several hundred thousand dollars apart. now it is easy to say what's a couple hundred thousand dollars between friends but the difference was more than my entire net worth. I doubt there are many reading this to whom a couple of hundred thousand dollars isn't a big deal. I understand that Lance's old contract was lottery winning type money to most of us, but there wouldn't be a lot left if he paid cash for houses for all of his close relatives. the difference was sizable in relation to what he's made in the past.

which leaves me to wonder why we signed Miles and Rudez when we did. maybe Miles wouldn't have waited for Lance's bargaining to be resolved, but would using what we are going to pay Miles to sweeten Lance's offer have kept him? while having both Lance and Miles would be the prime choice, wouldn't having Lance and Stuckey (or any other veteran taking a minimum contract) have been better than having Miles and Stuckey?

is Rudez more than a second Copeland? if we couldn't find PT for Cope how are we going to find it for Damo? perhaps the answer is that we thought Lance was going to accept an offer that would have required moving Scola and maybe Copeland too leaving Damo and Lavoy to fight to be West's primary backup, but what was the rush?

Valid points and head scratching questions.

Lance does seem the type to potentially jump to the "disrespected" conclusion. Once there its pretty easy for emotions to win out over logic. The same thing has happened with less volitle players. I wonder if everyone else in the organization agreed on Lance?

Personally I don't think we will be that much worse this year than last. The problem comes when Paul George becomes an unrestricted free agent or before and we don't have the talent around him to keep him.

[Wizop]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/larry-bird-calls-lance-stephenson-s-exit--disappointing---but-it-s-a-disappointment-of-the-pacers--making-174942087.html

[Boneman2]

Pursue Bledsoe? Kid wants a max contract. We don't have any filler to trade for him that Phoenix would want or any value to counter the filler. They might be better off just to let Bledsoe sign the QO and then not be held back by bad contracts.


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Also that QO essentially gives potential suitors a chance to confirm his true value before committing a max. If Bledsoe proves healthy then a max is within the realm of possibility, if not then he will lose millions. Either way, it is apparent that teams will not give PHO the assets they expect while guaranteeing such a massive contract. I expect that PHO will try to salvage some value by lowering their expected return. If PHO becomes reasonable on his asking price then we should pursue, even if they don't want our assets a 3-way could suffice.

Also, much like Lance, would Eric accept a similar deal to what is being offered if he can somewhat choose his destination. He doesn't like playing in PHO according to their fans.

It's probably a pipe dream, but we'd be wise to ensure PGeorge's tenure includes a set-up man.

Well, the problem is, since he's a free agent, he has to sign a new contract as part of the trade. If he signs the QO, he has a no trade clause, and the new team loses his bird rights as part of the trade.

Has to be a S&T. So we have to match big money. What filler do we have other than Scola and his non guaranteed deal? More important, what value do we have to offer Phoenix that they'd want to actually do the deal?


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We can't trade Scola back to PHO, right?

On the trade board I-Socrates pointed to a potential GHill/Copeland/ fut 1st for Bledsoe scenario. Now as much as I hate trading first round picks I'd do it, although I'd try to offer two 2nds instead. He even hinted that Bledsoe might accept 4/48 from another team other than PHO because like I alluded to he doesn't want to be there.

Pg- Bledsoe- Watson- Sloan
SG- Miles. - Stuckey
Sf- Pg. - Solo - rudez
Pf- west - Scola -
C- Hibbert - Mahimi- Allen

Next I'd offer Scola to Charlotte for Zeller. Word is that nobody is impressed with him and MJ wants to develop Vonleh instead. Many Charlotte fans have stated their desire for a veteran PF in return. Many offers on the trade board are laughable yet Charlotte fans typically accept anything.

[Scoot McGroot]

Also that QO essentially gives potential suitors a chance to confirm his true value before committing a max. If Bledsoe proves healthy then a max is within the realm of possibility, if not then he will lose millions. Either way, it is apparent that teams will not give PHO the assets they expect while guaranteeing such a massive contract. I expect that PHO will try to salvage some value by lowering their expected return. If PHO becomes reasonable on his asking price then we should pursue, even if they don't want our assets a 3-way could suffice.

Also, much like Lance, would Eric accept a similar deal to what is being offered if he can somewhat choose his destination. He doesn't like playing in PHO according to their fans.

It's probably a pipe dream, but we'd be wise to ensure PGeorge's tenure includes a set-up man.

Well, the problem is, since he's a free agent, he has to sign a new contract as part of the trade. If he signs the QO, he has a no trade clause, and the new team loses his bird rights as part of the trade.

Has to be a S&T. So we have to match big money. What filler do we have other than Scola and his non guaranteed deal? More important, what value do we have to offer Phoenix that they'd want to actually do the deal?


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We can't trade Scola back to PHO, right?
______________________________________
On the trade board I-Socrates pointed to a potential GHill/Copeland/ fut 1st for Bledsoe scenario. Now as much as I hate trading first round picks I'd do it, although I'd try to offer two 2nds instead. He even hinted that Bledsoe might accept 4/48 from another team other than PHO because like I alluded to he doesn't want to be there.
______________________________________
Next I'd offer Scola to Charlotte for Zeller. Word is that nobody is impressed with him and MJ wants to develop Vonleh instead. Many Charlotte fans have stated their desire for a veteran PF in return. Many offers on the trade board are laughable yet Charlotte fans typically accept anything.

To the top: Yes, Scola can go back to Phoenix this year. We're in a new league year, so it's possible now.

To the middle: I highly doubt that I-Socrates is posing extremely realistic options that Phoenix and Bledsoe would consider. Bledsoe wants a max. I doubt he's willing to take $12m per, because if he was, he would already be re-signed in Phoenix. They've offered him that.

To the bottom: They may be more interested in developing Vonleh (though, Vonleh is a long-term PF, Cody is a long-term C....there's room to develop both for sure), I think they'd want more than an expiring veteran PF that just isn't the same veteran PF he once was. I think they mean more along the lines of a veteran PF that's still talented, like a Paul Millsap. Scola just isn't close to that, in all likelihood.

[Boneman2]

Well, the problem is, since he's a free agent, he has to sign a new contract as part of the trade. If he signs the QO, he has a no trade clause, and the new team loses his bird rights as part of the trade.

Has to be a S&T. So we have to match big money. What filler do we have other than Scola and his non guaranteed deal? More important, what value do we have to offer Phoenix that they'd want to actually do the deal?


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We can't trade Scola back to PHO, right?
______________________________________
On the trade board I-Socrates pointed to a potential GHill/Copeland/ fut 1st for Bledsoe scenario. Now as much as I hate trading first round picks I'd do it, although I'd try to offer two 2nds instead. He even hinted that Bledsoe might accept 4/48 from another team other than PHO because like I alluded to he doesn't want to be there.
______________________________________
Next I'd offer Scola to Charlotte for Zeller. Word is that nobody is impressed with him and MJ wants to develop Vonleh instead. Many Charlotte fans have stated their desire for a veteran PF in return. Many offers on the trade board are laughable yet Charlotte fans typically accept anything.

To the top: Yes, Scola can go back to Phoenix this year. We're in a new league year, so it's possible now.

To the middle: I highly doubt that I-Socrates is posing extremely realistic options that Phoenix and Bledsoe would consider. Bledsoe wants a max. I doubt he's willing to take $12m per, because if he was, he would already be re-signed in Phoenix. They've offered him that.

To the bottom: They may be more interested in developing Vonleh (though, Vonleh is a long-term PF, Cody is a long-term C....there's room to develop both for sure), I think they'd want more than an expiring veteran PF that just isn't the same veteran PF he once was. I think they mean more along the lines of a veteran PF that's still talented, like a Paul Millsap. Scola just isn't close to that, in all likelihood.

To the middle: I believe Bledsoe turned the offer down because he doesn't want to play In PHO. Sure he'd like a max but he's not getting it. Certainly his agent is aware that the market determines this, not him.

[Scoot McGroot]

I'm not sure Phoenix is entertaining a S&T in any form for Bledsoe. As such, they'll likely just match whatever he signs, or try and sign him for less.

[Boneman2]

I'm not sure Phoenix is entertaining a S&T in any form for Bledsoe. As such, they'll likely just match whatever he signs, or try and sign him for less.

RealGM listed a report before July 10th stating that PHO was calling around trying to determine his trade value. This is obviously a key indicator along with what has transpired since.

[JDLAW]

I'm not sure Phoenix is entertaining a S&T in any form for Bledsoe. As such, they'll likely just match whatever he signs, or try and sign him for less.

RealGM listed a report before July 10th stating that PHO was calling around trying to determine his trade value. This is obviously a key indicator along with what has transpired since.

Boneman- that report was not true. The Suns have come out and said, they will listen to calls, but were and are not making any.

As for whether he wants to play in PHX, a couple of insecure media members floated out the notion that because he did not affirmatively embrace the Suns and the city in his exit interview, that he did not want to be here. While only Bledsoe knows his true feelings, the Suns beat writer who is closest to the team without being a team member has written several articles with quotes from Bledsoe's about how Bledsoe likes his teammates and coaches and the opportunity given. Until Bledsoe (not his incompetent agent) says anything to the contrary, I would not put much stock in the whining of insecure message board posters. I would also say it really does not matter as it will not give him any leverage with the Suns mgt.

[Boneman2]

I'm not sure Phoenix is entertaining a S&T in any form for Bledsoe. As such, they'll likely just match whatever he signs, or try and sign him for less.

RealGM listed a report before July 10th stating that PHO was calling around trying to determine his trade value. This is obviously a key indicator along with what has transpired since.

Boneman- that report was not true. The Suns have come out and said, they will listen to calls, but were and are not making any.

As for whether he wants to play in PHX, a couple of insecure media members floated out the notion that because he did not affirmatively embrace the Suns and the city in his exit interview, that he did not want to be here. While only Bledsoe knows his true feelings, the Suns beat writer who is closest to the team without being a team member has written several articles with quotes from Bledsoe's about how Bledsoe likes his teammates and coaches and the opportunity given. Until Bledsoe (not his incompetent agent) says anything to the contrary, I would not put much stock in the whining of insecure message board posters. I would also say it really does not matter as it will not give him any leverage with the Suns mgt.

I don't believe the city of PHO is the issue rather the situation may not totally appeal to him long term with Dragic firmly entrenched. Could be way off base but thats the way it appears. Although looks can be deceiving.