Thoughts on the final 53 and depth chart

[benchmobbin02]

Thought I'd drop a new topic for the final 53. Some surprises and some obvious upgrades.

Looks like Hayden is #1 on the depth chart going into week 1.

That was the first thing that stuck out to me as well. Thru camp and the preseason games we seemed to be seeing Hayden make a few mental error that we believed would cost him a spot starting across from Carrie. Not so. He gets #1 CB billing with Carrie #2 and Thorpe his backup and McGill behind Carrie. Now this could be just due to the side of the field they will play in most sets but maybe not.

Also Carrie is listed as our lead punt returner. He is the best suited to the task on the roster. The coaches tried several guys but didn't feel comfortable giving any the roster spot to only do one thing so Carrie and Taiwan Jones handle return duties.

Along with Kickoff returns, Jones will also be the #2 RB. I knew the battle between him Richardson, Dyer, and Helu would be close but his speed and multi faceted abilities won him the job over Helu, who missed tons of snaps with minor injuries and could still end up the regular 3rd down back.

The guy to not count out would be Reece. He has, in the past, handled HB duties when needed and didn't look half bad. Absent any true blue tailbacks besides Murray, he could see carries and even turn into the lead back if injury hits Murray.



Other things of note:

Seth Roberts jumped Butler and Holmes on the depth chart with consistent hands and YAC production in the preseason. I really have high hopes for these young WRs. Crab, Streater and Holmes will all be free agents next year and I see Cooper, Roberts and Butler as the future for us. Hopefully, Debose can come back healthy and we can add one more piece next year and really establish some stability and strength in the position.

Due to Walford being injured all camp basically, Rivera is listed as #1 TE with Smith #2 and primary blocking TE and Walford 3rd. Gabe Holmes showed real promise and has the body and skill set to be a complete TE but he is still raw. I thought he would end up on the practice sqaud. Whether it's insurance for Walford not being 100% or not trusting Holmes to make it thru waivers, I'm glad we still have him. Walford, Smith and Holmes is a nice combo for the future. I know Rivera has done nice things but I don't know if he is kept past next year with those three healthy and young.

Oline is straight forward. McCants and/or Bergstrom make it due to Watson's injury. I really think that hurts us. Maybe even knocks 1 win off the books. Think Watson was that important and ready for a breakout year, especially in run blocking. Dude is a Beast! Really disappointing.

Us picking up OLB Alexander and DE Edwards really show that not only were Valles Shirley and Harris not ready for primetime yet but the coaches wanted guys with some mileage that they could count on.

I'm interested to watch the safeties this yr. As me and FNQ and gone back and forth, two things are obvious. We have two starting caliber safeties and they both are probably better suited to play FS. Now they have switched off those duties with Allen getting the majority of snaps in the box when both are on the field and have stated they can play either or but will that last all season? Will CWood last all year at age 39?

If not, we have two backups much better suited to SS in Asante and Lambert, who I'm really excited to see in action and hope he see the field in that role at some point.

We kept only 2 Qb as many teams do now and released Ponder. McGloin earned the spot once again with solid play and no fear in the preseason.

Mack will start at LDE!


LET'S GO NATION!

[FNQ]

- really dicey w/giving Hayden #1 duties, but at this point, why not? He has the physical talent. He needs to take a step forward in his development, and giving him Cooper in practice and #1s in games is the best way

- REALLY disagree with Carrie fielding kicks. I hate giving any base starter return duties unless you are a deep team, and we sure are not that at DB. Much rather see Taiwan back there. Or cut Butler and give us a guy who can actually return kicks at WR

- I think Taiwan is the #2 RB in name only. If Murray goes down, I believe Reece and Helu handle the bulk of the job. Taiwan is a ST ace, should stay that way. Might be a gadget player too, and I'm fine with that. Incredible straight line speed

- Roberts absolutely deserves WR4 duties at this point, if not 3. He's been great and we should reward that. Holmes has been hurt and Butler is kinda sloppy as a route runner still

- Rivera (and it pains me to say it) actually looked good in preseason. Walford should have to earn his job. I think he will, soon, but all things considered, Rivera's looked craftier and more polished than years' prior. Maybe competition pushed him? I think Lee has been a great blocker, and is really like a 6th OL.

- I'm really worried about our run blocking, and RT. Austin Howard has been disappointing to say the least. I wouldnt be shocked to see Webb kicked outside (who's been fantastic, btw) and putting Barnes or Feliciano in at RG at some point this year

- I think our rookies/young guys' inability to contribute on ST, with Alexander and Edwards both having experience there, played a big part in them getting squadded. I'm happy with all our post-cut additions and transactions, especially keeping Shelby Harris

- S position looks much better if they are playing sides, and our insurance is 2 SS that will put us back into a traditional FS/SS style if Allen or Woodson goes down/is ineffective.

- Right with you on Mack @ DE. He played there more than half the time as a rookie, and it gives him a better chance at getting to the QB. As an OLB, he was a crazy effective run stopper, but we have capable players in that regard this year.

All in all, a lot of reasons to be optimistic this year. And frankly the AFC West doesnt look as strong as people would lead you to believe.. we might make some noise this year.

[Twinkie defense]

Thought I'd drop a new topic for the final 53. Some surprises and some obvious upgrades.

Looks like Hayden is #1 on the depth chart going into week 1.

That was the first thing that stuck out to me as well. Thru camp and the preseason games we seemed to be seeing Hayden make a few mental error that we believed would cost him a spot starting across from Carrie. Not so. He gets #1 CB billing with Carrie #2 and Thorpe his backup and McGill behind Carrie. Now this could be just due to the side of the field they will play in most sets but maybe not.

Now hold on why do you say that?

All the depth charts I have seen (including the Raiders own) break the CB into two positions (just like WR), with TJ and DJ as starters. That is very different than DJ being the "#1" CB.

[benchmobbin02]

I seen at least two depth charts earlier in the week that had numbers next to the CBs with Hayden at 1 and Carrie at two. I wasn't the only one. As of today they all have come in line with the Raiders main site in putting L or RCB or just CB.

Notice the last sentence of my statement where I state that this could be just due to the side of the field they are playing and not depth status. Meaning I was taking that with a grain of salt and I wasn't sure.

[Twinkie defense]

OK I would take it with a grain of salt though IDK if the Raiders will have Carrie shadow the #1 WR - usually that is not the case.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[FNQ]

If Allen and Woodson are holding steady on their respective sides of the field, I'd see no reason to move our CBs either. It would allow each side to get a feel for the other. It would also give the Raiders the chance to have the struggling youth (Hayden) paired with a saavy vet in Woodson if they felt that would be most beneficial. But with Allen's preseason, they may see him as a better cover safety and pair him with Hayden. We'll know in 4 days.

yes, 4 days.

[benchmobbin02]

Allen got two passes over thrown to him. Doesn't make him a good coverage man, just able to stay behind the route. CWood is just as able to do the same. He did it several times last year. But to flip it, Allen is definitely better in the box than Woodson.

Hayden hasn't struggled, we just like to bag on him cuz he is a high pick. He can't help where he was picked or his injuries.

With the #1s, we have kept Carrie on one side and Hayden on the other thru the whole preseason so that is most likely what will happen in season. When the nickel comes in it will be interesting to see if McGill moves outside and Hayden inside just because he is smaller and more able to stay with quick slot receivers and McGill is a bigger coverman.

The reality of this whole thing is that offenses will look to exploit matchups. Getting a TE on a slot corner, getting a speedy RB on a MLB, getting an elite WR on our 3rd corner. All the guys will have to prepared to cover anyone on a given play. It comes back to us coaching up everyone and really improving the pass rush so the coverage doesn't have time to break down. I'm far more optimistic that the pass rush is improved (Mack, Mayowa, Edwards and Autry all poised to take steps forward) and the secondary is faster and better prepared to stay close to the receivers, turning close catches into incompletions and keeping big after the catch gains to the minimum.

[Twinkie defense]

Gotta wonder if Allen's picks are more than a fluke, considering his career totals.

DJ has definitely struggled though. If he were not a recent first round pick I doubt that he would be starting. He's getting some beneit of doubt out there. Good - make or break time for DJ this season.

[benchmobbin02]

Allen picks aren't a fluke just the product of an overthrown ball and being where he was suppose to on the play.

Hayden hasn't struggled. Even if he was a 5th rd pick he would still be starting over McGill Thorpe McDonald and Edwards. But one thing is certain, this year does mean a lot for all our corners because the new coaching staff inherited them. When they have the chance to really influence the draft and free agency process with tape of current guys available from THIS YEAR they may be replacing guys that under perform.

So yes it's make or break for Hayden but also for many players on the defense if they can't put good tape down and show they are taking the coaching from this new staff.

[Twinkie defense]

I'm just getting tired of waiting. We need the young guys to step up... not the young guys next fall, the young guys right now.

Re. Allen I meant picks last season more than the preseason game. Last season he had what, five picks? Not counting on those.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[benchmobbin02]

Allen and CWood both had 4 picks last year.

We are all getting tired of waiting. That was the point I was making. ALL the young guys in the secondary are being given a chance to show they can play and produce in this system this year. If they can't produce then we move on from them.

[benchmobbin02]

Helu is inactive for the game so Jones IS the #2 RB with Reece looking to get carries as well.

[Twinkie defense]

Mays re-signed, Ross released.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[benchmobbin02]

Ross had a chance to really help us if he could've stayed healthy. Probably kicking himself. Tough break for a guy that needed one.

[FNQ]

Ross was waived off of IR and implied he's off to New Orleans.

Nate Allen put on IR-DTR, so we should see him again this year.

CJ Wilson was re-signed, meaning either someone on the DL was injured, or the Raiders were sufficiently disappointed in McGee and Autry. And they should be.

[FNQ]

Brice Butler traded to the Cowboys for a 7th round pick.

On our WR: seems like only a matter of time until Streater reclaims WR3 duties after Roberts botched the opener.

[Twinkie defense]

IDK where Roberts is in the pecking order - his two drops on Sunday didn't help. But he was not alone in that - I think there were five passes dropped total, including one by Cooper - and seems the coaches are high on Roberts. IDK if he is going to lose his reps because of his first game, which was not at all, all bad.

"Someone on the d-line" injured - well of course Jelly was injured.

[FNQ]

IDK where Roberts is in the pecking order - his two drops on Sunday didn't help. But he was not alone in that - I think there were five passes dropped total, including one by Cooper - and seems the coaches are high on Roberts. IDK if he is going to lose his reps because of his first game, which was not at all, all bad.

"Someone on the d-line" injured - well of course Jelly was injured.

Forgot that Jelly went down

Roberts was 3rd in snaps and on the field for most 3 WR sets. He was the 3rd WR, and responded with 3-12 and 2 drops. It was very bad, no other way to put it. The coaches should be high on Roberts based on his preseason, but he looked lost out there on Sunday. And with Streater and Holmes being more proven, they might get more of a chance to take the job next week.

[FNQ]

Brice Butler traded to the Cowboys for a 7th round pick.

On our WR: seems like only a matter of time until Streater reclaims WR3 duties after Roberts botched the opener.

Actually..

If Butler stays on the Cowboys roster more than 6 weeks (ie for longer than Dez Bryant is out), the Raiders swap their 2016 6th for Dallas' 2016 5th. If he's cut, its only a 2016 7th. Solid haul for a guy who was our WR6

[benchmobbin02]

I'm sad to see Butler go. I seem to be the only one around here that thought he could be something if given snaps in games but he has a chance to really do something on the Cowboys with Dez out for maybe 8 games.

Wilson was a good re-sign. He is avg at best skill wise but knows the system, team and how to be a pro. He can play inside and outside and play special teams.

So far Reggie has picked up 2 late round picks from talent wanted on other teams. Keep up the good work!