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OT: Deflategate

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Bald Bull
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Re: OT: Deflategate 

Post#41 » by Bald Bull » Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:07 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:As far as advantages, another area of advantage - significant advantage - is in fumbles. Pats are basically off the charts in terms of limiting fumbles over the last five years.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/?p=2932


The effect on fumbles never occurred to me.

They say many other teams do this, but the fact that the patriots are such an anomaly on the fumble charts likely evidence against their abuse of this rule. It's not like they possess ancient Chinese secret on ball handling.
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Re: OT: Deflategate 

Post#42 » by MHSL82 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:47 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:
Tomikcon1971 wrote:In a world of overblown stories, this is even more overblown in my opinion......what about this? They were inflated at the low end of legal and lowered in psi after exposure to cold air? Gases shrink when cold. Ever notice how when winter comes sometimes you have to add air to your car tires?

They deserve some of this because of Spygate but this may simply be the ideal gas law.......look it up.


The decrease was too great - and too uniform - for that explanation to hold much water. If simply exposing the balls to the cold caused a two-pound drop, then the Colts' balls would also have been below the permissible range, even if they were inflated as fully as allowed.

Also, my understanding was that they keep the balls that aren't in use in a heated container.

Have you read anything that said that they tested the Colts footballs? Not claiming anything, I just haven't seen that before in the reports. I'm assuming they did, but assumptions mean nothing.
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Re: OT: Deflategate 

Post#43 » by Tomikcon1971 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:08 pm

There have been reports all balls were tested.
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Re: OT: Deflategate 

Post#44 » by Tomikcon1971 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:11 pm

However I don't believe warming them is allowed.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... -footballs
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Re: OT: Deflategate 

Post#45 » by Tomikcon1971 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:24 pm

Also,there are tons of unknowns here:

Where were balls inflated? Inside? Outside? Did the teams handle the process the same way? Same gauges? Gauges calibrated? Is humidity and atmospheric pressure taken into account? Did he Colts go to the high end of the scale because the game was outside?

I mean if someone get off a drug suspension based on how the sample was handled, how can anyone be incriminated over this situation? Data integrity is pretty suspect in my opinion.
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Re: OT: Deflategate 

Post#46 » by MHSL82 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:44 pm

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Re: OT: Deflategate 

Post#47 » by ChrisPozz » Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:01 am

Video shows employee taking 24 balls into bathroom

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -bathroom/
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Re: OT: Deflategate 

Post#48 » by ChrisPozz » Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:17 pm

Kraft’s statement increases the pressure on Goodell

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... n-goodell/
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Re: OT: Deflategate 

Post#49 » by ChrisPozz » Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:19 pm

ChrisPozz wrote:Video shows employee taking 24 balls into bathroom

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -bathroom/



Can a bag of footballs be deflated in 90 seconds?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... 0-seconds/
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Re: OT: Deflategate 

Post#50 » by NinerSickness » Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:57 pm

ChrisPozz wrote:
Can a bag of footballs be deflated in 90 seconds?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... 0-seconds/


11 balls? Easily. It only takes a couple of seconds to let some air out of a ball. Remember: they weren't taking ALL of the air out of the ball; just enough to make 'em a little
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Re: OT: Deflategate 

Post#51 » by CrimsonCrew » Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:57 pm

First and foremost, Kraft recently talked about the league needing more than circumstantial evidence to punish the Pats. Frankly, I don't think the league needs to produce any more evidence than that the balls were under-inflated. Teams are responsible for their equipment, and the Pats' equipment was not in compliance with the rules. That in and of itself is enough to mete out some punishment, though perhaps not a very harsh one.

Beyond that, though, we now know that after the balls were approved by the officials, they were taken into an isolated location for a period of time. What's the excuse for that? It's frankly ridiculous to believe that the guy whose one job is to take the balls from the officials to the field couldn't make it without stopping to piss. I'm not willing to say this is conclusive proof that they tampered with the property, but it sure doesn't look good IMO. There's no reasonable explanation for why he can't hold it another three minutes. It would be like the guy in the Brinks truck going to the can after he gets the cash.

Additionally, the statements Belichick and Brady have made are wildly inconsistent.

Brady 1

In prior interviews, Brady has said that he likes balls that are inflated to the lower end, even joking about liking it when Gronk spikes the balls because it forces some air out of them.

Belichick 1

Belichick first says he didn't know anything about the footballs because it isn't an area he's never given any thought. (Incidentally, the guy played center throughout five years of HS and in college, handling the ball on every play, and is known to obsess about anything that could help his team win - he admits during this very press conference to affecting practice balls to make it harder on his players - but he never gave any thought to how the inflation of a ball might affect the players?) However, having looked into it since the story broke, he now knows that they inflate their balls to the 12.5 range, which may result in the balls naturally deflating below the allowable range.

Brady 2

Brady says he checked the footballs before they went to the officials and they were perfect. At this point, the balls are clearly inflated and ready to go, and he didn't want anyone to do anything with them.

Belichick 2

This is where things get really interesting.

First, Belichick says that texture and "feel" are more important than inflation, which is very difficult to determine by touch. That seems to be directly contradicted by Brady's earlier statements about liking a ball that is inflated to the lower end of the range.

Belichick then talks about their manipulation of the balls in creating the desired texture actually increasing the PSI by a pound.

He follows that up by saying it's up to the official to set the PSIs wherever he wants it. That's news to Tom Brady, who apparently believes that the balls are perfect when they leave him and that no one is changing them.

Belichick then gets into climactic changes. That's problematic for a couple reasons, IMO. He starts off by saying if the balls were left in conditions for a period of time.... Well, Belichick of all people knows that cold and wet balls are harder to play with - he makes his players do it in practice to challenge them, after all. The reality is that the balls are not kept out in the elements. They are at the very least put in storage containers, and those storage containers are at the very least dry, and presumably warmer than the outside air (if they aren't actually climate controlled). Any balls that are removed are removed only when they are in play. Furthermore, he comes up with a net change of one pound, which still puts their balls a pound under the limit. He then curiously says he can't tell a one-pound difference in balls - odd as the balls were two pounds under the limit.

I just don't buy it, personally. And I think the bathroom break is pretty damning evidence. I wouldn't want to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, but the NFL standard for this sort of thing is much lower than that.
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Re: OT: Deflategate 

Post#52 » by shazam_guy » Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:01 pm

I really dislike both this year's Super Bowl teams, so much that it's hard to know who to root against harder. Is it possible they can beat each other senseless and crippled, then end in a 0-0 tie? That would be my optimum solution.
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Re: OT: Deflategate 

Post#53 » by SeaNinersFan » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:17 am

I admit it, I am boycotting the Superbowl this year. I was going to go for the patriots but with the deflategate thing going on, I hate the whole mess and don't care and wont watch.
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Re: OT: Deflategate 

Post#54 » by MHSL82 » Mon Feb 9, 2015 3:44 pm

Colts and Ravens setup the Patriots?

Starting to look that way. Going to be interesting to see how this plays out.

BOSTON (CBS) - NFL football operations chief Troy Vincent confirmed in an interview with 60 Minutes Sports on Showtime that Colts general manager Ryan Grigson notified the league about a potential issue with the footballs in the AFC Championship game. Ironically enough, and contrary to the initial report, only one of the footballs was found to be two pounds per square inch under the required 12.5 PSI threshold, with the rest being “just a tick under” the limit. People can draw their own conclusions, but the Colts were only in possession of a Patriots football one time, and that came after a D’Qwell Jackson interception of Tom Brady midway through the second quarter. Is it possible the Colts may have leaked the football and handed it to the referees for investigation, while the other 11 balls naturally deflated from atmospheric conditions? It sure sounds that way, and Boomer Esiason wouldn’t be surprised given the nature of the NFL. “If you notice, Harbaugh never went after Bill Belichick and never said anything negative about him as a coach for the previous two weeks leading up to the Super Bowl. Next week the Patriots are playing the Colts, and their head coach is Chuck Pagano, who was once defensive coordinator under John Harbaugh and the Ravens. They’re all close and they’re all tight,” explained Esiason.“This is what I believe happened: they all wanted to embarrass Tom Brady, and they wanted to put him on the spit if you will. They wanted to make him answer questions about said rule book.”
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Re: OT: Deflategate 

Post#55 » by CrimsonCrew » Mon Feb 9, 2015 5:44 pm

Is it confirmed that only one football was two pounds under the limit? If so, ha! That would change this thing around pretty quickly IMO. That's the sort of thing that could be some sort of mishap. A little hard to believe the Colts and Ravens would go to these lengths just to embarrass the Pats, but maybe Harbaugh was upset about Brady's "know the rulebook" crack.

Not sure how the Colts would leak the football while on the field, though. Or did Jackson carry it back to the sideline? That starts to get a bit too conspiracy-theory-ish for me.
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Re: OT: Deflategate 

Post#56 » by MHSL82 » Mon Feb 9, 2015 6:19 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:Is it confirmed that only one football was two pounds under the limit? If so, ha! That would change this thing around pretty quickly IMO. That's the sort of thing that could be some sort of mishap. A little hard to believe the Colts and Ravens would go to these lengths just to embarrass the Pats, but maybe Harbaugh was upset about Brady's "know the rulebook" crack.

Not sure how the Colts would leak the football while on the field, though. Or did Jackson carry it back to the sideline? That starts to get a bit too conspiracy-theory-ish for me.

Yes, it was confirmed that only one ball was 2 pounds under and the rest were all under a little bit. Some of them were less than a pound under. This is what upsets me about leaks. If you're going to leak, leak the whole details. I think that they, intentionally for scandal, leaked the two pounder and made it sound like all of them were 2 pounds under. They got away with this because all of them were under, but this would've happened if you had made at the minimum and then the atmospheric conditions lowered it a tick under. The two pounder, I don't know.

As far as Jackson taking it back to the sideline, I thought I read a report confirming that. But I don't know who he handed the ball to, whether that was to a official football handler or to a Colts member.
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Re: OT: Deflategate 

Post#57 » by CrimsonCrew » Mon Feb 9, 2015 6:36 pm

MHSL82 wrote:
CrimsonCrew wrote:Is it confirmed that only one football was two pounds under the limit? If so, ha! That would change this thing around pretty quickly IMO. That's the sort of thing that could be some sort of mishap. A little hard to believe the Colts and Ravens would go to these lengths just to embarrass the Pats, but maybe Harbaugh was upset about Brady's "know the rulebook" crack.

Not sure how the Colts would leak the football while on the field, though. Or did Jackson carry it back to the sideline? That starts to get a bit too conspiracy-theory-ish for me.

Yes, it was confirmed that only one ball was 2 pounds under and the rest were all under a little bit. Some of them were less than a pound under. This is what upsets me about leaks. If you're going to leak, leak the whole details. I think that they, intentionally for scandal, leaked the two pounder and made it sound like all of them were 2 pounds under. They got away with this because all of them were under, but this would've happened if you had made at the minimum and then the atmospheric conditions lowered it a tick under. The two pounder, I don't know.

As far as Jackson taking it back to the sideline, I thought I read a report confirming that. But I don't know who he handed the ball to, whether that was to a official football handler or to a Colts member.


Huh. Funny how the incorrect leak gets a ton of press, but not the correction...
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Re: OT: Deflategate 

Post#58 » by B-King » Mon Feb 9, 2015 8:17 pm

Roger Goodell needs to be replaced to give the NFL a fresh start. Anything not on par with the sanctions levied on New Orleans would further taint his legacy.

How does the head of the league turn down being interviewed before the Super Bowl?
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Re: OT: Deflategate 

Post#59 » by CrimsonCrew » Mon Feb 9, 2015 9:13 pm

B-King wrote:Roger Goodell needs to be replaced to give the NFL a fresh start. Anything not on par with the sanctions levied on New Orleans would further taint his legacy.

How does the head of the league turn down being interviewed before the Super Bowl?


Did he fine himself $500K?
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Re: OT: Deflategate 

Post#60 » by DoobieKeebler » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:28 am

B-King wrote: How does the head of the league turn down being interviewed before the Super Bowl?


Because he would not be able to command the room like a David Stern.

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