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Baalke's drafting record

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Re: Baalke's drafting record 

Post#61 » by Jikkle » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:33 pm

With the number of picks and a roster at one time was considered extremely talented I didn't take an issue with rolling the dice on guys that are talented but slip due to injury.

The issue really isn't Baalke whiffing on the ACL players it's more him whiffing a lot on the healthy guys he picks. Prior to 2015 he's gotten very little out of his drafts.
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Re: Baalke's drafting record 

Post#62 » by Pattersonca65 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:58 pm

wco81 wrote:So they just traded Brandon Thomas for Jerome Kerley. At least Kerley has gotten snaps in the league. According to CSNBA, Thomas has never appeared in a game with the 49ers, meaning no regular season or playoffs game, not exhibition.

I don't know the full scorecard for the redshirts but off the top of my head:

1. Marcus Lattimore - retired, never played.
2. Kenneth Acker - played one season, traded away for 7th pick.
3. Brandon Thomas - never played, traded for journeyman WR, waste of 3rd round pick.
4. Tank Carradine - limited playing time, position change.


Lattimore didn't work out. I don't believe Acker was a redshirt pick. He was injured after being drafted. Reaser was the redshirt. With Carradine it doesn't appear to have anything to do with his injury. Maybe it has more to do with the 49ers bulking him up to try and play a position he isn't suited for. It wasn't the position he played in college.
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Re: Baalke's drafting record 

Post#63 » by Pattersonca65 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:00 pm

Jikkle wrote:With the number of picks and a roster at one time was considered extremely talented I didn't take an issue with rolling the dice on guys that are talented but slip due to injury.

The issue really isn't Baalke whiffing on the ACL players it's more him whiffing a lot on the healthy guys he picks. Prior to 2015 he's gotten very little out of his drafts.


Great point. I feel the same way. I don't think this strategy has been the real issue. The real issue has been Baalke's overall misjudgment of NFL talent. Look at all the players he drafted, not just the redshirt picks.
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Re: Baalke's drafting record 

Post#64 » by wco81 » Wed Sep 7, 2016 5:05 pm

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Re: Baalke's drafting record 

Post#65 » by Bald Bull » Wed Sep 7, 2016 9:02 pm

Jikkle wrote:With the number of picks and a roster at one time was considered extremely talented I didn't take an issue with rolling the dice on guys that are talented but slip due to injury.

The issue really isn't Baalke whiffing on the ACL players it's more him whiffing a lot on the healthy guys he picks. Prior to 2015 he's gotten very little out of his drafts.


That's right, I liked a lot of the risks when we made them. We can't forget the context of our roster strength at the time. It didn't last, but we had room to take a chance on a few. We just got carried away.
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Re: Baalke's drafting record 

Post#66 » by Pattersonca65 » Thu Sep 8, 2016 4:26 pm

Grant Cohn had an interesting article today about Baalke's ACL drafting strategy

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/sports/6065655-181/grant-cohn-49ers-thinking-flawed
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Re: Baalke's drafting record 

Post#67 » by Jikkle » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:29 am

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Re: Baalke's drafting record 

Post#68 » by thesack12 » Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:25 pm

Jikkle wrote:
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And of those 2, Aldon is long gone and Reid has regressed. However to be fair, the head injuries are probably mostly to blame for Reid's regression.

Also, if I'm not mistaken Frisco has made the most picks during that time.
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Re: Baalke's drafting record 

Post#69 » by DoobieKeebler » Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:53 pm

Credit where credit is due, re: Baalke's trade for Jeremy Kerley.

Brandon Thomas was wilting on the bench, achieving nothing, and while Kerley isn't worth a 3rd round pick, like we spent on Thomas (more like a Tai Streets-ish 6th round pick value), that Brandon Thomas/Jeremy Kerley trade is looking better and better by the day.

Hopefully Colin develops a good rapport with Kerley, like Gabbert did, now that he's the starter for the interim.
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Re: Baalke's drafting record 

Post#70 » by thesack12 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:52 am

^ Yeah, he deserves credit for getting something for nothing. However, he was the one that brought in the nothing to begin with, and that nothing lasted for 2 full seasons.

Its pretty bad when a 3rd round pick never makes the active game day roster in 2 full seasons, let alone play a single down of football for the team.

But yeah, Kerley has been a nice addition. However, I don't know how much of that has to do with him playing well or simply a matter of the WR corps easily being bottom 5 and eventually somebody has to catch some passes. The bulk of the passing "attack" completions and yardage was accrued during the plethora of garbage time in this young season, although a lot of that should be attributed to Gabbert's ineptness. Ideally a guy like Kerley is no more than your 3rd WR. Maybe he'll continue to grow, if Frisco can get some competent QB play.
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Re: Baalke's drafting record 

Post#71 » by thesack12 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:55 am

If anybody wants to read, here's an analysis of Baalke's failures.

http://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2016/10/10/this-is-all-your-fault-trent-baalke/

Does this guy have any redeeming factors?
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Re: Baalke's drafting record 

Post#72 » by Pattersonca65 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:22 pm

thesack12 wrote:If anybody wants to read, here's an analysis of Baalke's failures.

http://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2016/10/10/this-is-all-your-fault-trent-baalke/

Does this guy have any redeeming factors?


Some good points in the article. At the end of the day, all you have to do is look at the roster as a whole and you can see the team is not headed in the right direction. This team based on Baalke's picks looks to be a mediocre team at best. I have no confidence whatsoever now that Baalke can build a roster that can compete for a title. I understand letting some of the aging vets go, that is life in the NFL. Bill Walsh let vets go before they went into serious decline. but he found replacements. Baalke for the most part has not. The article didn't even bring up some of his free agent signing failures like Dockett. Baalke clearly needs to go and most 49er fans believe this now.
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Re: Baalke's drafting record 

Post#73 » by wco81 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:33 pm

He's had 5 full drafts now?

Yeah he doesn't have much to show for it unless Garnett and Buckner look like all-pros by the end of the season, same thing for Armstead, Tartt and one or two others.
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Re: Baalke's drafting record 

Post#74 » by Jikkle » Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:15 pm

thesack12 wrote:If anybody wants to read, here's an analysis of Baalke's failures.

http://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2016/10/10/this-is-all-your-fault-trent-baalke/

Does this guy have any redeeming factors?


I felt under his tenure that the salary cap was well managed and players are signed to pretty reasonable contracts.

He does a good job of acquiring draft picks and he generally doesn't get screwed over when he does trade picks. You can argue if he should've made the trade in the first place but I can't recall a trade where it wasn't a fair exchange of picks.

He has had some hits with trades and free agency and he's not bad when it comes to drafting defense especially secondary.

But overall he's been in full control since 2011 and the roster has become terrible under his watch. Granted some things were out of his hands but the roster should nowhere be this bad especially given the amount of draft picks and cap space he's had to work with.

The biggest failure has got to be his complete lack of any sort of ability to draft offense especially offensive skill players. It's mind boggling that not only he hasn't drafted a #1 WR he hasn't even drafted a #2 type WR and you could argue he hasn't even drafted a #3 type as well. All he has to show for skill positions is Carlos Hyde and that's it. One guy since 2011 that you could say has pro bowl potential.
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Re: Baalke's drafting record 

Post#75 » by Pattersonca65 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:55 pm

Jikkle wrote:
thesack12 wrote:If anybody wants to read, here's an analysis of Baalke's failures.

http://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2016/10/10/this-is-all-your-fault-trent-baalke/

Does this guy have any redeeming factors?


I felt under his tenure that the salary cap was well managed and players are signed to pretty reasonable contracts.

He does a good job of acquiring draft picks and he generally doesn't get screwed over when he does trade picks. You can argue if he should've made the trade in the first place but I can't recall a trade where it wasn't a fair exchange of picks.

He has had some hits with trades and free agency and he's not bad when it comes to drafting defense especially secondary.

But overall he's been in full control since 2011 and the roster has become terrible under his watch. Granted some things were out of his hands but the roster should nowhere be this bad especially given the amount of draft picks and cap space he's had to work with.

The biggest failure has got to be his complete lack of any sort of ability to draft offense especially offensive skill players. It's mind boggling that not only he hasn't drafted a #1 WR he hasn't even drafted a #2 type WR and you could argue he hasn't even drafted a #3 type as well. All he has to show for skill positions is Carlos Hyde and that's it. One guy since 2011 that you could say has pro bowl potential.


He hasn't done very well on the defensive side either. Lynch looks like a good one so far, but Lemonier was a bust. Harold and Carradine haven't really shown anything to date. Baalke drafted a ton of DBs. Reid made one pro bowl. Tartt could turn out to be a good safety, but jury is still out. Ward hurt again. None of the other DBs have really stood out so far.
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Re: Baalke's drafting record 

Post#76 » by Jikkle » Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:27 pm

Pattersonca65 wrote:
Jikkle wrote:
thesack12 wrote:If anybody wants to read, here's an analysis of Baalke's failures.

http://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2016/10/10/this-is-all-your-fault-trent-baalke/

Does this guy have any redeeming factors?


I felt under his tenure that the salary cap was well managed and players are signed to pretty reasonable contracts.

He does a good job of acquiring draft picks and he generally doesn't get screwed over when he does trade picks. You can argue if he should've made the trade in the first place but I can't recall a trade where it wasn't a fair exchange of picks.

He has had some hits with trades and free agency and he's not bad when it comes to drafting defense especially secondary.

But overall he's been in full control since 2011 and the roster has become terrible under his watch. Granted some things were out of his hands but the roster should nowhere be this bad especially given the amount of draft picks and cap space he's had to work with.

The biggest failure has got to be his complete lack of any sort of ability to draft offense especially offensive skill players. It's mind boggling that not only he hasn't drafted a #1 WR he hasn't even drafted a #2 type WR and you could argue he hasn't even drafted a #3 type as well. All he has to show for skill positions is Carlos Hyde and that's it. One guy since 2011 that you could say has pro bowl potential.


He hasn't done very well on the defensive side either. Lynch looks like a good one so far, but Lemonier was a bust. Harold and Carradine haven't really shown anything to date. Baalke drafted a ton of DBs. Reid made one pro bowl. Tartt could turn out to be a good safety, but jury is still out. Ward hurt again. None of the other DBs have really stood out so far.


Reid has been good, Ward is good when he's in there, Robinson so far looks like he could be great, Borland would've been good if he didn't retire after one year, Lynch has played well, and Aldon in terms of talent was a hit just not in terms of staying out of trouble.

Jury is still out on Armstead, Buckner, and Tartt but they have potential.

Like I said it's not bad just not great either as you have mentioned plenty of busts as well.
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Re: Baalke's drafting record 

Post#77 » by Ease_Ur_Storm » Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:29 pm

Baalke is actually a good fit in theory for a team in rebuild mode. The problem is that he never adapted when the team was deep to make a move up for an impact player vs. continual move backs that yielded mediocre players or nothing.

As a result too many players were hanging around not getting developed, while knocking each other off of the roster with a brigade of ACL injured players hanging around on the IR. This last draft should finally help the team long term. But a major reason why is because so many vet players retired or got cleared out - so there was finally room to start developing some of these guys on the field.

He consistently has been able to find good CB's in the mid-late rounds. He landed Trent Brown at the bottom of the draft. Other than that it's real bad when a chimp throwing darts at a board with draft names on it could have viably ended up with better results over the entirety of his five drafts. He got unlucky with several picks, but when you consistently bring in players that come in as broken pieces, you typically end up with broken players.
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Re: Baalke's drafting record 

Post#78 » by thesack12 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:00 pm

Jikkle wrote:
Pattersonca65 wrote:
Jikkle wrote:
I felt under his tenure that the salary cap was well managed and players are signed to pretty reasonable contracts.

He does a good job of acquiring draft picks and he generally doesn't get screwed over when he does trade picks. You can argue if he should've made the trade in the first place but I can't recall a trade where it wasn't a fair exchange of picks.

He has had some hits with trades and free agency and he's not bad when it comes to drafting defense especially secondary.

But overall he's been in full control since 2011 and the roster has become terrible under his watch. Granted some things were out of his hands but the roster should nowhere be this bad especially given the amount of draft picks and cap space he's had to work with.

The biggest failure has got to be his complete lack of any sort of ability to draft offense especially offensive skill players. It's mind boggling that not only he hasn't drafted a #1 WR he hasn't even drafted a #2 type WR and you could argue he hasn't even drafted a #3 type as well. All he has to show for skill positions is Carlos Hyde and that's it. One guy since 2011 that you could say has pro bowl potential.


He hasn't done very well on the defensive side either. Lynch looks like a good one so far, but Lemonier was a bust. Harold and Carradine haven't really shown anything to date. Baalke drafted a ton of DBs. Reid made one pro bowl. Tartt could turn out to be a good safety, but jury is still out. Ward hurt again. None of the other DBs have really stood out so far.


Reid has been good, Ward is good when he's in there, Robinson so far looks like he could be great, Borland would've been good if he didn't retire after one year, Lynch has played well, and Aldon in terms of talent was a hit just not in terms of staying out of trouble.

Jury is still out on Armstead, Buckner, and Tartt but they have potential.

Like I said it's not bad just not great either as you have mentioned plenty of busts as well.


Yeah, Baalke has found a couple solid players on the defensive side. However, at this point "solid player" is about all you can say for most those guys, some aren't even legit surefire starting caliber IMO. Only Lynch and Robinson look like they could be actual stars and they still aren't there yet.

As you said jury is still out on guys like Armstead and Buckner, however most times if guys are destined to be legit studs they usually show out very early on.
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Re: Baalke's drafting record 

Post#79 » by thesack12 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:05 pm

Ease_Ur_Storm wrote:Baalke is actually a good fit in theory for a team in rebuild mode. The problem is that he never adapted when the team was deep to make a move up for an impact player vs. continual move backs that yielded mediocre players or nothing.

As a result too many players were hanging around not getting developed, while knocking each other off of the roster with a brigade of ACL injured players hanging around on the IR. This last draft should finally help the team long term. But a major reason why is because so many vet players retired or got cleared out - so there was finally room to start developing some of these guys on the field.

He consistently has been able to find good CB's in the mid-late rounds. He landed Trent Brown at the bottom of the draft. Other than that it's real bad when a chimp throwing darts at a board with draft names on it could have viably ended up with better results over the entirety of his five drafts. He got unlucky with several picks, but when you consistently bring in players that come in as broken pieces, you typically end up with broken players.


I agree with this assessment.

I will also add that part of what makes the 2012 draft a complete unmitigated disaster and the 2013 a huge underwhelming fail is the fact that at the time those drafts took place 9ers were legit contenders and only needed minor tweaks and a little help on a play hee or there could have made a huge difference. The fact that the team got a complete zero in 2012 and next to nothing outside of Reid in 2013 is unforgiveable. As is very clear by now a team's window doesn't stay open too long, so you absolutely have to capitalize while you have the chance.

Of course the long term value of both the '12 and '13 drafts is minimal as well. Of all the selections on those draft classes only Eric Reid is a consistent contributor presently.

Basically what I'm saying, in addition to what you were talking about, is Baalke should have made moves to consolidate picks and go after players that maximized potential impact and brought in immediate help. Especially in '12 and '13.
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Re: Baalke's drafting record 

Post#80 » by thesack12 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:32 pm

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