ImageImageImageImageImage

Tanking

Moderators: MHSL82, CalamityX12

radtech
Senior
Posts: 690
And1: 46
Joined: Dec 07, 2004

Tanking 

Post#1 » by radtech » Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:37 pm

Are they doing this on purpose now or this is good as it gets? I know this team is young but will any of them step up and lead this team? When will Baalke get fired for all his failed draft picks? When will they start trading players like Staley and Bethea, who deserves better than this mess? Looking at the schedule it maybe awhile before we see another victory.
User avatar
clyde21
RealGM
Posts: 61,567
And1: 69,128
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
   

Re: Tanking 

Post#2 » by clyde21 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:58 pm

We're just not a good team. Sub-par QB player, poor talent at the WR position and a generally young and inexperienced roster. I wasn't expecting anything more than 3 or 4 wins this year, honestly.
Jikkle
Analyst
Posts: 3,049
And1: 259
Joined: Aug 24, 2014
         

Re: Tanking 

Post#3 » by Jikkle » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:43 pm

It's as Clyde said and while you would like to see the scores closer the outcomes have been mostly predictable.

I'm fairly confident Chip and mostly everyone else in the building expected this to happen as well. Which is why I think the coaching staff is going to treat this year as an install year and let the team take their lumps and figure out who's worth keeping and who needs to really go.

And just my speculation but I'm guessing Chip took the job knowing the odds were good that his BFF Gamble is likely to take over the GM spot and he wouldn't have to put up with Baalke long before getting his man in there and building the team he wants.

The team isn't good but I think it's more not good in key positions than plain not good from top to bottom. The offense just needs a good QB and a #1 WR to be really good and the defense just needs another legit pass rusher and really time and experience especially with O'Neil's complex system he runs.
wco81
RealGM
Posts: 21,872
And1: 9,137
Joined: Jul 04, 2013
       

Re: Tanking 

Post#4 » by wco81 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:02 pm

Problem is, they're not even trying. Gabbert repeatedly throws short of first down. OK, not risking turnovers but it's not like the defense can hold the other team so not converting first downs just leads to blowouts, as has happened in both losses.

So they lose by 20 instead of 40?

Fitzpatrick throws 6 ints. yesterday because he's trying to stick throws in there. He could have checked down and get nowhere like the 49ers. Or Winston or Luck slinging all game. They both have the same lousy records but at least their offenses are producing something.

Anyways, this mock draft has the 49ers drafting 4th and picking a CB:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-deshaun-watson-goes-no-1-to-browns-in-pffs-early-2017-mock-draft/

I don't know that Watson or Garrett, if they are the top picks in the draft next April, will help turn the team quickly, unless Garrett is the next Von Miller or something.
RedneckNiner
Veteran
Posts: 2,752
And1: 104
Joined: Sep 07, 2014
   

Re: Tanking 

Post#5 » by RedneckNiner » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:34 pm

I wouldn't say tanking...The Niners do have some nice pieces. The offensive line is much improved. If the Niners actually had a quarterback the running game would be a whole lot better. Teams know Gabbert and they know he lives on short passess so they are focusing on the run and leaving one one ones on receivers most of the game. They have zero fear of Gabbert going deep or testing the coverage.

Imo there is not a qb worthy of a top 5 pick in this draft. For me it would be Garrett if the Niners pock that high but honestly with a top 3 pick id rather see them trade it for a nice haul. I am reservung judgement of Buckner and Armstead the both show flashes of getting pressure but Buckner seems to play too high and gets blown up on running plays. Armstead has an injured arm but both have potential. The niners need a qb, a bonafide pass rusher, a real wide receiver, a shutdown corner, a mlb to play next to Bowman, and a tight end who can consistently catch. The improvement is there this year you have to look to see it but the oline is improving, the secondary is a bit better and Redmond and rashard i believe will be good and supplant Brock, Davis and Reaser. Tart needs to play instead of Bethea.
Jikkle
Analyst
Posts: 3,049
And1: 259
Joined: Aug 24, 2014
         

Re: Tanking 

Post#6 » by Jikkle » Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:47 pm

I highly doubt the 9ers would go with a CB with the 4th overall pick considering the secondary is actually in pretty good shape imo.

I see the issue with the pass defense being the pass rush and both Newton and Wilson had time to throw accurate well placed balls for big plays. But coverage wise I felt the secondary has been solid and it's usually been a case of a physical mismatch and QBs hitting the right spots.

Which just shows you the disparity between Gabbert and actual good QBs like Newton and Wilson who can be accurate and on time with throws to hit NFL windows and not need guys to be wide open (and still miss) to make completions.
CrimsonCrew
RealGM
Posts: 11,264
And1: 939
Joined: Aug 21, 2014
 

Re: Tanking 

Post#7 » by CrimsonCrew » Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:46 pm

Three games in, the only real surprise is that they beat the Rams 28-0. Like last year's win over the Vikings, it made the following two games that much worse. If anything, going into the season, most of us would have put the team at 0-3 after three weeks. I'm slightly curious to see what the offense looks like against a lesser defense (we've played three of the best to date, particularly in terms of front sevens), and what the defense looks like with Lynch back. But there's no doubt we need our DL to gain experience, need an impact pass rusher, and need a new QB and more talent at WR.
Ease_Ur_Storm
Senior
Posts: 542
And1: 21
Joined: Aug 21, 2014
 

Re: Tanking 

Post#8 » by Ease_Ur_Storm » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:08 pm

This is a young team adjusting to a new coaching staff with new schemes so it will take awhile. I pretty much have no hope for the offense the rest of the way. But want to see the defensive unit start growing together to stay competitive in these games so that all the young players can at least consistently get meaningful close game experience vs. just being on the field when the game is toast. Don't think I've ever had such low expectations after that last beat down, but do have some hope for the future - unlike last year. Over these next few weeks I really want to see the defense take a big step up, and getting Lynch back after next week should hopefully change some things.

Oh - and at this point if I were Gabbert I'd just start cutting it lose because what's there to lose?
I_am_1z
Starter
Posts: 2,171
And1: 66
Joined: Aug 22, 2014
     

Re: Tanking 

Post#9 » by I_am_1z » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:40 pm

This continues to be the worst fanbase in football. We play two SB contenders back-to-back on the road and we're already waving the white flag. Now I'm not saying we have a chance at the playoffs or even a .500 record, but let's at least see how we do against Dallas. If they beat us at home, then we can whine about it.
CalamityX12
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 15,815
And1: 2,532
Joined: Mar 15, 2012
         

Re: Tanking 

Post#10 » by CalamityX12 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:41 pm

I_am_1z wrote:This continues to be the worst fanbase in football. We play two SB contenders back-to-back on the road and we're already waving the white flag. Now I'm not saying we have a chance at the playoffs or even a .500 record, but let's at least see how we do against Dallas. If they beat us at home, then we can whine about it.

But the team we shutout wk 1 managed to beat the same Seahawks n not conceding a TD....?
The ModFather

My sports teams are currently experiencing suckiness. Please pardon the mess.
I_am_1z
Starter
Posts: 2,171
And1: 66
Joined: Aug 22, 2014
     

Re: Tanking 

Post#11 » by I_am_1z » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:46 pm

CalamityX12 wrote:
I_am_1z wrote:This continues to be the worst fanbase in football. We play two SB contenders back-to-back on the road and we're already waving the white flag. Now I'm not saying we have a chance at the playoffs or even a .500 record, but let's at least see how we do against Dallas. If they beat us at home, then we can whine about it.

But the team we shutout wk 1 managed to beat the same Seahawks n not conceding a TD....?


We scored 4 TDs against a team that managed to hold the Seahawks to no touchdowns. We can go ahead and word it anyway we want. Seahawks are a SB contending team—NO DOUBT. No one's surprised by these losses.
49rangER
Senior
Posts: 524
And1: 28
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
       

Re: Tanking 

Post#12 » by 49rangER » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:02 pm

I highly doubt this team is tanking. (Slightly thinking maybe chip is throwing Gabbert to the wolves with shoddy play calling in order to show Baalke he is not the guy)


Unfortunately for me I am a homer and every year brings new optimism. I am a little more realistic than full on homer so I temper expectations when Its obvious we aren't good, but I'm always looking for the wins and a chance at the playoffs every year. (This is not healthy) A big game for us this week that we can win.

This team has played some of the toughest defenses and the first 2 games the offense has played just okay. The last game was a complete cluster but we seem to always play bad in Seattle. I for one am done with Gabbert and ready to see if Kap can do anything with an improved line and offensive coach.

I'm a little more worried about the Defense as the Dline may not be as good as we were hoping it would be and there is nobody that can play next to Bowman with Ray Ray out. Bethea looks to be done.
RedneckNiner
Veteran
Posts: 2,752
And1: 104
Joined: Sep 07, 2014
   

Re: Tanking 

Post#13 » by RedneckNiner » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:01 pm

I_am_1z wrote:This continues to be the worst fanbase in football. We play two SB contenders back-to-back on the road and we're already waving the white flag. Now I'm not saying we have a chance at the playoffs or even a .500 record, but let's at least see how we do against Dallas. If they beat us at home, then we can whine about it.


You continue to be the biggest troll on the boards. I thought 5-7 wins was realistic for this team and i thought they would be 1-4 after 4 games. The problem for me is not the two lossess I thought they would lose. The problem is in almost every single aspect of the game the team looked helpless. That is what disappointed me. They have not even been competitive and thats the problem. I believe most of us expect a losing season while hoping to see progress. I thought going in the offense would struggle but the defense would at least keep the games closer. That has not been the case. Its not being the worst fanbase accepting incontrovertible facts.

Does that mean I have no hope for the season no it does not. I'm still hoping that they improve over the course of the season. The offensive line is the one big improvement from last year. I want to see Buckner, Armstead, Blair and the other youngsters xome together and play to their potential. Throw Gabbert, Kaep and maybe even Ponder out to start maybe one of them proves they can be the starter next year (doubtful). One of them proves they can guide the offense next year or be the bridge to a new qb in the draft. This is a rebuilding year start Tartt over Bethea get the youngsters all the playing time you can...a losing season does not have to be a wasted season. Id even look into trading Torrey Smith, Bethea, Staley and Ahmad Brooks. The Niners are a young team with a lot of holes if they can get picks for some of the older players on the roster so Gamble can use them in the draft awesome.
Jikkle
Analyst
Posts: 3,049
And1: 259
Joined: Aug 24, 2014
         

Re: Tanking 

Post#14 » by Jikkle » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:58 pm

I'll be worried about the defense if they are struggling badly towards the end of the season.

O'Neil runs the Rex Ryan defense which is complex and will take time to get down so the struggles for me aren't terribly surprising. The only disappointment I've had with the defense is the DL and while I believe DL guys don't really hit their stride until year 3 against a terrible offensive line in Seattle they should've had a bigger impact.

Defensively I only see two major holes which is the other ILB spot and getting a pass rusher to play opposite of Lynch. If they can plug those two holes on defense and take their lumps learning the new scheme and getting experience I have a feeling the defense will be pretty good in the future.
Pattersonca65
Analyst
Posts: 3,288
And1: 206
Joined: Aug 29, 2014
     

Re: Tanking 

Post#15 » by Pattersonca65 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:51 pm

RedneckNiner wrote:
I_am_1z wrote:This continues to be the worst fanbase in football. We play two SB contenders back-to-back on the road and we're already waving the white flag. Now I'm not saying we have a chance at the playoffs or even a .500 record, but let's at least see how we do against Dallas. If they beat us at home, then we can whine about it.


You continue to be the biggest troll on the boards. I thought 5-7 wins was realistic for this team and i thought they would be 1-4 after 4 games. The problem for me is not the two lossess I thought they would lose. The problem is in almost every single aspect of the game the team looked helpless. That is what disappointed me. They have not even been competitive and thats the problem. I believe most of us expect a losing season while hoping to see progress. I thought going in the offense would struggle but the defense would at least keep the games closer. That has not been the case. Its not being the worst fanbase accepting incontrovertible facts.

Does that mean I have no hope for the season no it does not. I'm still hoping that they improve over the course of the season. The offensive line is the one big improvement from last year. I want to see Buckner, Armstead, Blair and the other youngsters xome together and play to their potential. Throw Gabbert, Kaep and maybe even Ponder out to start maybe one of them proves they can be the starter next year (doubtful). One of them proves they can guide the offense next year or be the bridge to a new qb in the draft. This is a rebuilding year start Tartt over Bethea get the youngsters all the playing time you can...a losing season does not have to be a wasted season. Id even look into trading Torrey Smith, Bethea, Staley and Ahmad Brooks. The Niners are a young team with a lot of holes if they can get picks for some of the older players on the roster so Gamble can use them in the draft awesome.


Very well put. For me, the defense has been the biggest disappointment the past couple of weeks. I figured the offense would struggle up in Seattle, but the defense was also bad from the start. Seattle's offense has been bad so far this year struggling to even score a touchdown and we let them go crazy on us just like last year. What makes it hard to take is that it is the Seahawks, our hated rivals and obnoxious fan base. And rushing only three dlineman on third downs just infuriates me unless it is 3rd and 30.
User avatar
DoobieKeebler
Senior
Posts: 693
And1: 34
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
Location: Northern Califas
       

Re: Tanking 

Post#16 » by DoobieKeebler » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:35 am

So, I have a sort of agreement going with a Raiders fan buddy of mine who doesn't have a TV, where he comes by when the schedules line up and we watch both teams games on Sundays this year. Homeboy was getting mad furious at the Niners D like he was a diehard fan, screaming, "Why are you rushing 3 linemen?! Wilson could walk to a 1st!"

Russell, of course, bombed it 50+ yards on the play in question.

My point being, the deficiencies are so glaring, maddening, and infuriating, that someone who objectively dislikes the team, flips out at how stupid they are.
CrimsonCrew
RealGM
Posts: 11,264
And1: 939
Joined: Aug 21, 2014
 

Re: Tanking 

Post#17 » by CrimsonCrew » Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:11 pm

The formula for defending the Hawks has been the same for years: stop the run and defend against the big play. If you can do those two things, their offense just isn't very well-rounded or particularly good, frankly. We got completely destroyed in both areas. It's tough to say to what extent it was mistakes by the players versus the scheme/approach, but nothing seemed to be working. Hopefully the Jets' DL can cause them problems this week.

Return to San Francisco 49ers