At very least, Doc needs to be on the hot seat...

[Forte IV]

I'm all for the option of all of us blocking him so it's just him stuck in his own little world.

[Wammy Giveaway]

Martin, what do you want from your Clippers? You want them to be invincible, 82-0 in the regular season, 16-0 in the playoffs and win a title every year like the Lakers used to? Just because the Lakers won 10 titles in three decades time as top seed doesn't mean the Clippers need to replicate what their big brother did just to be loved.

All the Clippers need to do is be convincingly competitive. Right now, they've been competitively conservative due to the Sterling scandal, how Game 5 tarnished Chris Paul's legacy as a top point guard, and the fact the Clippers have been eliminated in the playoffs three years in a row. They want to win badly, yes, to rid themselves of the stench left behind by the evil Donald Sterling, and to stick it to the Lakers since Sterling did help his buddy Dr. Jerry Buss in purchasing the team. But they need to master patience.

What if the Clipper's only hope of getting out of the second round is to surrender the division title to their arch rival Warriors and submit to winning as a lower seed, with the possibility of no home court advantage throughout the playoffs. Clips may end up being the 8th seed this year, forcing them to become a road team for the entire playoff run. Sure, 8th seeds mean instant elimination, but they can still win. Dubs did it in 2007, upsetting the top seeded Mavericks. Better example: the 1999 lockout playoffs, where the 8th seeded New York Knicks battled hard to reach the NBA Finals.

We know that Doc has failed as a general manager, and he may probably relinquish his role following the conclusion of this season. But let's not call for his head just yet. The only reason why he's still here is because of what he did in navigating the franchise through the turmoils of the scandal. If anybody else were coaching the Clippers, this team would have been contracted by now. Doc Rivers kept the franchise afloat - we owe him this one shot to win his way. If it fails this year, they should try something else.

All I'm saying, Martin, is relax. Let's see how his GM moves translate in the playoffs first.

[mattd13]

I am on the fence on this one but I agree on wait and see. however I am worried hawes is going to be problem. someone else needs to step up.

[Forte IV]

For once I agree with wammy. What is happening.

[kylem4711]

good man.

we're all well versed in your opinion on Doc.
stop bumping old threads when we lose or being all over game threads when we lose and absent when we win.

we heard you the 1st time.

and the 78th time.

stop responding to him man. Just like everyone knows that guy is annoying, we know that you don't like him. Just block him like we all should. Life's going to be easier now that blocked him.

[Wammy Giveaway]

stop responding to him man. Just like everyone knows that guy is annoying, we know that you don't like him. Just block him like we all should. Life's going to be easier now that blocked him.

Just remember that blocking here is not a "full block." When you make him an enemy, he is put into the Ignore list; you won't see his post unless you click on the button to reveal it. It would have to be a full ban by the mods for it to be a true block.

I don't think mods have the ability to ignore, thereby hiding posts from users, just in case they have to ban a person, do they?

[Quake Griffin]

good man.

we're all well versed in your opinion on Doc.
stop bumping old threads when we lose or being all over game threads when we lose and absent when we win.

we heard you the 1st time.

and the 78th time.

stop responding to him man. Just like everyone knows that guy is annoying, we know that you don't like him. Just block him like we all should. Life's going to be easier now that blocked him.

I don't not like him or anybody on the forum. I view us all as Clipper family.

He is just annoying at times. He is blocked btw. But he's not blocked to avoid EVERYTHING he says. He's blocked for those days I really don't feel like dealing with reading his sh**.

He's ethered more than enough trolls on the GD and on this forum for me to act like he's ALWAYS unbearable.

[Clemenza]

These are what ifs but the bench was actually serviceable had he kept Cunningham, Joe Ingles, Radulijca(from Milwaukee), drafted KJ McDaniels, brought in Robert Covington from the D-League(he's been a nice find for the Sixers), Bullock and even his son Austin. Nothing major, no stars but a solid bench nevertheless.

[og15]

Still a terrible GM, still a bad coach. Now that the initial post-Blake-injury adrenaline high has worn off, Doc is back to being exposed on a nightly basis.

Doc is not a bad coach, you don't give yourself credibility by suggesting that he is.

The Clippers would have a tough time in the last two games no matter who was coaching, they were hard games. There's a reason there are only 3 Western teams with winning records against >.500 teams, and that is because it isn't easy to win against the good teams.

These are what ifs but the bench was actually serviceable had he kept Cunningham, Joe Ingles, Radulijca(from Milwaukee), drafted KJ McDaniels, brought in Robert Covington from the D-League(he's been a nice find for the Sixers), Bullock and even his son Austin. Nothing major, no stars but a solid bench nevertheless.

Well I'm not sure how good that bench really is outside of the drafting KJ McDaniels parts, everything else is just "meh". Secondly, those player can only be useful if they actually see the court. No point in Doc adding guys he isn't going to play anyways, right?

Martin, what do you want from your Clippers? You want them to be invincible, 82-0 in the regular season, 16-0 in the playoffs and win a title every year like the Lakers used to? Just because the Lakers won 10 titles in three decades time as top seed doesn't mean the Clippers need to replicate what their big brother did just to be loved.

All the Clippers need to do is be convincingly competitive. Right now, they've been competitively conservative due to the Sterling scandal, how Game 5 tarnished Chris Paul's legacy as a top point guard, and the fact the Clippers have been eliminated in the playoffs three years in a row. They want to win badly, yes, to rid themselves of the stench left behind by the evil Donald Sterling, and to stick it to the Lakers since Sterling did help his buddy Dr. Jerry Buss in purchasing the team. But they need to master patience.

What if the Clipper's only hope of getting out of the second round is to surrender the division title to their arch rival Warriors and submit to winning as a lower seed, with the possibility of no home court advantage throughout the playoffs. Clips may end up being the 8th seed this year, forcing them to become a road team for the entire playoff run. Sure, 8th seeds mean instant elimination, but they can still win. Dubs did it in 2007, upsetting the top seeded Mavericks. Better example: the 1999 lockout playoffs, where the 8th seeded New York Knicks battled hard to reach the NBA Finals.

We know that Doc has failed as a general manager, and he may probably relinquish his role following the conclusion of this season. But let's not call for his head just yet. The only reason why he's still here is because of what he did in navigating the franchise through the turmoils of the scandal. If anybody else were coaching the Clippers, this team would have been contracted by now. Doc Rivers kept the franchise afloat - we owe him this one shot to win his way. If it fails this year, they should try something else.

All I'm saying, Martin, is relax. Let's see how his GM moves translate in the playoffs first.

Pretty sure nothing is tarnished and every team in the West but OKC and SA have been eliminated 3 years in a row.

Surrendering the division title makes it seem like the Clippers could win the division if they wanted to. No, the Warriors have taken that themselves, there was no surrendering happening.

Doc didn't keep the franchise afloat, take it easy there, the team wasn't in fear of being contracted if not for Doc. Where do you come up with this stuff?

Everything we need to win a Championship is already on the team -- I'm glad we didn't press the panic button and trade away a piece of the 'Lob Mob'.

Doc is doing fine -- this team has become a traditional 'Doc Team'; look pedestrian during the regular season, then turn-it-on come playoff time.

Step away from the ledge...

Martin is on one end of the spectrum and you are on the other. Everything needed for a championship isn't there, but sure, if everything goes right, it is possible, but that's something you can say about every team, so it isn't saying too much. Defense is generally needed for a championship, and that is certainly not there.

The "traditional" Doc team thing is just off and ignores context. Boston won 66 games in their championship year, 07-08 and destroyed the regular season. 10th in Ortg, 1st in Drtg. The next season, 08-09 they won 62 games, 6th in Ortg and 2nd in Drtg with KG only playing 57 games, they lost in the 2nd round b/c KG was out. It wasn't until 09-10 when they won 50 games and went to the finals. 10-11 they won 56 games and lost in 5 in the second round. In 11-12 they were the 4th seed at 39-26, equivalent to 48 wins over 82 games. They beat the Hawks, then beat the 8th seed Sixers in the 2nd round who had progressed because the #1 seed Bulls lost Derrick Rose. They lost a hard fought battle to Miami.

There's no pattern there suggesting this lackadaisical regular season and then superior playoffs, but they were better in the playoffs in the later years primarily because their older guys who played less in the RS just played more. The Clippers aren't in that position.

[LACtdom]

^^ Great post.

My 2 cents:

Doc is a below average GM (not sure if this is simply because of lack of experience).
Doc is an above average coach but still has weaknesses. He is a player's coach type coach. He is great at running plays out of time outs. Is good at uniting a team. He is bad at rotations and lineup selections. He doesn't take numbers too seriously which is probably why he plays Jamal so much. He is always in 'win now' mode which means we play vets over youth. I do not think of Doc as a savior in relation to the Donald Sterling fiasco. I believe any coach we had would have pulled us through that.

People say we are inconsistent (which is true) and that's why we won't win a chip this year however it doesn't matter how consistent you are on offense, if you can't play defense you won't win it all because no one can shoot perfectly 4 games out 7 each playoffs series and continue that until it's all over.

I strongly believe we need to make it far in this year's playoffs as a statement to league and kind of like advertising that we are the real deal and can hopefully attract talent.

[mj_shoefanatic]

Will we ever hire a real GM? no pun intended

[QRich3]

As usual, I agree with everything og says. Anyone who doesn't think Doc is a great coach loses all credibility and I just can't take him seriously. He might not be the type of coach to make you go "WTF how did he think of that" or get the best possible performance out of each and every role player and 10th man, but no one other than Pop and Carlisle do that. But on all the rest he's an elite coach and I wouldn't pick any other coach in the league for this team.

The way people take for granted how each year he's been here we've had one of the best offenses in decades of NBA basketball, and the way he comes up with defensive stuff to make guys like Harden or Curry unproductive nearly every time they play us. He's elite at drawing single plays but he's also elite at drawing the general system that fits this team best, at getting the very best out of the players he trusts, and at adjusting on the fly in the playoffs. Those are basically the most important aspects for a coach, and to read people fixate on superficial stuff like rotations and playing time for rookies and role players, it's just frustrating to see.

He doesn't have a clue how to build a roster or evaluate talent when it's not really obvious, but that's a completely different thing that has nothing to do with his coaching abilities.

[Clemenza]

As usual, I agree with everything og says. Anyone who doesn't think Doc is a great coach loses all credibility and I just can't take him seriously. He might not be the type of coach to make you go "WTF how did he think of that" or get the best possible performance out of each and every role player and 10th man, but no one other than Pop and Carlisle do that. But on all the rest he's an elite coach and I wouldn't pick any other coach in the league for this team.

The way people take for granted how each year he's been here we've had one of the best offenses in decades of NBA basketball, and the way he comes up with defensive stuff to make guys like Harden or Curry unproductive nearly every time they play us. He's elite at drawing single plays but he's also elite at drawing the general system that fits this team best, at getting the very best out of the players he trusts, and at adjusting on the fly in the playoffs. Those are basically the most important aspects for a coach, and to read people fixate on superficial stuff like rotations and playing time for rookies and role players, it's just frustrating to see.

He doesn't have a clue how to build a roster or evaluate talent when it's not really obvious, but that's a completely different thing that has nothing to do with his coaching abilities.

Well how come CJ Wilcox or Jared Cunningham can't/couldn't get any run on the court but Austin gets instantly thrown into the fire upon his arrival? These two are arguably better or on par with Austin's abilities. Why not throw the new guy Hamilton into the fire instantly against the Rockets instead of playing Jamal at the three? He might not know the offensive sets but maybe he could've slowed down the Rockets SF's the other night? Why go after Kendrick Perkins when Udoh, who's sitting on the bench, is basically the same player at this point in their careers? Plus I don't get his "stretch-center" philosophy where guys like Mullins and Hawes are out there shooting threes instead of banging in the paint. Also I'm wondering if DJ as been "coached up" by Doc or is this his natural progression as a player from being in the league all these years. Vinny only sat DJ in the 4th cause he couldn't make free throws and guess what, he still can't make free throws.

Yeah Doc is a good motivator and he can draw up a good play after a timeout but sorry.. he's starting to look suspect even on the coaching end.

[QRich3]

Well how come CJ Wilcox or Jared Cunningham can't/couldn't get any run on the court but Austin gets instantly thrown into the fire upon his arrival? These two are arguably better or on par with Austin's abilities. Why not throw the new guy Hamilton into the fire instantly against the Rockets instead of playing Jamal at the three? He might not know the offensive sets but maybe he could've slowed down the Rockets SF's the other night? Why go after Kendrick Perkins when Udoh, who's sitting on the bench, is basically the same player at this point in their careers? Plus I don't get his "stretch-center" philosophy where guys like Mullins and Hawes are out there shooting threes instead of banging in the paint. Also I'm wondering if DJ as been "coached up" by Doc or is this his natural progression as a player from being in the league all these years. Vinny only sat DJ in the 4th cause he couldn't make free throws and guess what, he still can't make free throws.

Yeah Doc is a good motivator and he can draw up a good play after a timeout but sorry.. he's starting to look suspect even on the coaching end.

I feel like you're saying roughly the same stuff that I do, but drawing a totally different conclusion from it. Like I said, he's not great at getting the best out of every role player at the end of the bench, and he tends to be stubborn with his rotations, and that somehow translates to the awful job he's done as an executive.

That said, that's a very small part of what being a coach means, he's really good at many more important things than being a motivator and drawing plays out of time outs. He's shown he can be an elite defensive coach and an elite offensive coach, he always adapts very well to the roster he has (to the core of it at least) and gets the best out of star players. And again, that goes beyond motivation, I'm talking X's & O's and how he uses them in the way that's most beneficial for the team.

The benefits of having a 5 that can shoot should be obvious, and specially as a fit with Blake, so no wonder he's been trying to make something like that work. It hasn't yet, but mostly because Mullens & Hawes are not great players overall, not because the idea is bad. I don't really understand what are you blaming on Doc about DJ, is it that he did a good job but maybe someone else would have too??

[og15]

I think the Austin getting minutes thing was also situation dependent. Part of it is going to be that it is his son, but also the team actually had no other PG on the team except for Paul when Austin came here. Even when there have been SF's, the team has gone with the Paul/Redick/Jamal lineup over the backup SF.

Really we don't know where CJ's abilities lie, but Hamilton, that is true, he was no worse a player than Rivers last time he was in the NBA, but Hamilton isn't known for his defensive abilities, so I'm not sure throwing him in the game to slow down the Rockets perimeter guys would have done much. The game was lost on giving up FTA and turning it over too much.

I don't really think we should imply that Hamilton would have been great than +5 influence in limited minutes and have changed the complexion of the game, so we can't really get up in arms about something like that.

Is it really accurate to say Doc is suspect as a coach while leading the team to the best Ortg in the league?

So far without Blake:
112.7 Ortg, 1 game under 107.8 Ortg, 5/7 games with 110 Ortg or higher
107.3 Drtg, 3/7 games opponents were held under 97 Ortg

The first game vs OKC where the defense got killed makes it look worse.

The last 6 games the team has 113.1 Ortg / 102.9 Drtg and are 4-2 with some tough opponents.

The guy isn't a perfect coach, but he's FAR from bad or suspect. Look, I don't want to get on Hawes again, but he was 1/9 FG, 4/4 FT and had 4 turnovers vs Houston, the possessions he used more than lost the game. This doesn't make a stretch big a bad idea, it just makes Hawes not a very productive player as a Clipper.

Take all the playoff teams the last 7 games and imagine it was a playoff series, half of the games on the road, half at home and we just went 3-3 without Blake Griffin. When you take that context into account, it will help you to breathe a little and put things in perspective.

@OKC - L
@DAL - W
HOU - W
SAS - W
MEM - L
@HOU - L

If the Clippers lose to Memphis tonight, those last 7 games vs playoff opponents would be like losing a 7 game series without HCA with no Blake. That would be the expected result if we're being real.

[Clemenza]

I think the Austin getting minutes thing was also situation dependent. Part of it is going to be that it is his son, but also the team actually had no other PG on the team except for Paul when Austin came here. Even when there have been SF's, the team has gone with the Paul/Redick/Jamal lineup over the backup SF.

Really we don't know where CJ's abilities lie, but Hamilton, that is true, he was no worse a player than Rivers last time he was in the NBA, but Hamilton isn't known for his defensive abilities, so I'm not sure throwing him in the game to slow down the Rockets perimeter guys would have done much. The game was lost on giving up FTA and turning it over too much.

I don't really think we should imply that Hamilton would have been great than +5 influence in limited minutes and have changed the complexion of the game, so we can't really get up in arms about something like that.

Is it really accurate to say Doc is suspect as a coach while leading the team to the best Ortg in the league?

So far without Blake:
112.7 Ortg, 1 game under 107.8 Ortg, 5/7 games with 110 Ortg or higher
107.3 Drtg, 3/7 games opponents were held under 97 Ortg

The first game vs OKC where the defense got killed makes it look worse.

The last 6 games the team has 113.1 Ortg / 102.9 Drtg and are 4-2 with some tough opponents.

The guy isn't a perfect coach, but he's FAR from bad or suspect. Look, I don't want to get on Hawes again, but he was 1/9 FG, 4/4 FT and had 4 turnovers vs Houston, the possessions he used more than lost the game. This doesn't make a stretch big a bad idea, it just makes Hawes not a very productive player as a Clipper.

Take all the playoff teams the last 7 games and imagine it was a playoff series, half of the games on the road, half at home and we just went 3-3 without Blake Griffin. When you take that context into account, it will help you to breathe a little and put things in perspective.

@OKC - L
@DAL - W
HOU - W
SAS - W
MEM - L
@HOU - L

If the Clippers lose to Memphis tonight, those last 7 games vs playoff opponents would be like losing a 7 game series without HCA with no Blake. That would be the expected result if we're being real.

That's the thing we'll never know anything if Doc won't go out on a limb with anyone that doesn't have the last name of Rivers on the back of his jersey. I'm going to have to see how we play in the postseason to really see if Doc has put his stamp on this team. He inherited Blake, CP3, DJ and Jamal and basically that's what's getting him by right now- The core that was already in place and operational before Doc got here. Like others have said Doc the GM is failing Doc the Coach. The team Danny Ainge assembled for him + Doc's skill was a perfect dream match.

[og15]

I'm not going to toot my own horn too much, but I said it the first summer Doc came that I was not a fan of his GM decisions and that I felt he was overvaluing his ability as a coach and to get usefulness from players in making his acquisition choices. The acquisition of guys like Mullens and Jamison and passing on some defensive guys who went for cheap and made sense for this team just did not make sense to me. At the time he was novel and people were not ready to say he wasn't good at something, but I never got on the back of Doc the GM because I didn't see a clear philosophy / direction in how he was building the team outside of him wanting shooters.

So I agree, front office Doc and his player operations staff certainly are not doing coach Doc any favors.

[Hodges4Three]

I was just reading that Hassan Whiteside wanted a tryout with the Clippers, the team thought it was a good idea and Doc said no.

Now the dude is emerging as one of the best centers in the NBA and is averaging 18 and 16 with 4 blocks per 36. LOL.

Couldn't give the kid a look yet Rivers is fine with having an overweight T-Rex arms Glen Davis and a halfway in the retirement home Turkoglu as backups as well as his D-League at best son backing up CP3.

Clippers future looked bright before Doc pissed it away.

[Quake Griffin]

Still a terrible GM, still a bad coach. Now that the initial post-Blake-injury adrenaline high has worn off, Doc is back to being exposed on a nightly basis.

[og15]

I was just reading that Hassan Whiteside wanted a tryout with the Clippers, the team thought it was a good idea and Doc said no.

Now the dude is emerging as one of the best centers in the NBA and is averaging 18 and 16 with 4 blocks per 36. LOL.

Couldn't give the kid a look yet Rivers is fine with having an overweight T-Rex arms Glen Davis and a halfway in the retirement home Turkoglu as backups as well as his D-League at best son backing up CP3.

Clippers future looked bright before Doc pissed it away.

Well to be fair everyone missed out on Whiteside, but there were some conflicting stories with regards to that situation