Official: DeAndre Jordan re-signs for the next 4 years

[City of Trees]

Hey DJ, Cuban is on line 1. Karma on line 2.

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[Neddy]

And I didn't accuse Doc of any wrong doing just now. But I will say that's embarrassing for him to make that comment.

And again, I have asked every single Clippers fan making the accusation of Fegan/Cuban colluding to provide some solid evidence of this from a non-LA source. Since its "clearly" you surely have plenty you can post.

I know you are a mod and you can ban me if you like, but seriously, what do you get out of this? it is done and over with. do you really wanna be like Ms Parsons?

[mttwlsn16]

DJ is ours

Let the haters hate

**** em

[mkwest]

"Karma" again....

The Clippers and Pacers wanted to enter into a 3-team S&T deal with the Mavericks. Hibbert would have been sent here, Ellis to the Pacers and DJ on to Dallas. The Mavs didn't want to do it, because it didn't benefit them (even though they would have gained a little more financial flexibility). They essentially got what they wanted and the Clips were SOL. If they wouldn't have been opposed to that option, they would have gotten the center they coveted and wouldn't be in the mess that they're in right now. Now that's some "karma"

No team ever wants to help out a competitor, but if you want to talk about "Karma" then you need to open your eyes a little wider and beyond just the narrow scope that you're focused in on criticizing.

DJ should have handled it much better than he did (and he's going to have to live with the heat on him for awhile), but the same could be said for the other parties (front offices and agents) involved. They sought to serve their own best interests and he ended up doing the same. Yes it does suck when you're on the losing end. We've been there a couple of times with free-agents "committing" and then reneging. Brand did it and Kobe did it. Steve Kerr did it to the Knicks a little over a year ago. Kerr's "karma" was a having a healthy team, facing teams hamstrung by injuries in nearly each round of the playoffs, while also avoiding some of their biggest threats on route to their first championship in 40 years. "Karma"

[Ranma]

Larry Coon, BasketballInsiders.com (7/9/15)

Alfredo Rodriguez
DeAndre Jordan spurning Dallas after having verbally agreed to join the Mavericks was one of the boldest and most outrageous events in NBA history. There’s an unwritten rule in the moratorium that once you commit to a contract or to a new team, there is no turning back. Jordan had second thoughts, realized the mistake, and followed his heart back to the Clippers.

Meanwhile, during the Jordan circus, there were reports coming from Michael Eaves that Dan Fegan isn’t what he seemed to be. Eaves mentioned an ultimatum that if the Clippers wanted Jordan back, they had to trade Chris Paul to Dallas. The Mav’s intention in this case was nothing more than to erase the Clippers from the playoff picture by stealing Jordan through manipulation.

Could both the Clippers and Mavericks each face sanctions for what appears to be manipulating the spirit of free agency and the moratorium? If a sanction were imposed, who would feel the sting more: the Clippers for violating protocol and putting Jordan in house arrest to avoid missing the playoffs; or the Mavericks for using free agency as a weapon to improve their playoff chances, or at the very least eliminate and intimidate a playoff contender?

Larry Coon
The problem is, by definition he DIDN’T verbally agree with the Mavs. The CBA makes clear that there shall be no agreements, oral or written, during the July Moratorium, and anything that happens during that time is classified as negotiation only.

The problem is that the teams, media and public take that for more than it is. Teams announce that they’ve agreed with players, and the league doesn’t stop them. If the league makes clear that the moratorium is what it is, and you don’t announce that you’ve agreed to terms with a player, then all is fine.

If they’re going to change it, then what’s the alternative? Revenues come in through June 30, and getting the audit done in eight days is herculean as it is, so it’s not like they can speed up the process any more (historical note — the Moratorium used to last the entire month of July). So besides cracking down on teams as I suggest above, I can think of two things:

1) Instead of allowing contact starting at midnight on July 1, move the date back to midnight on the day the Moratorium lifts. But I think that just makes it harder for the teams to plan, doesn’t really prevent contact, and won’t really fix the problem (what happened this week during the moratorium could also have happened next week if they had started later). And besides, you can also argue for the benefit of having a “cooling off” period, which effectively is what we have now.

2) Maybe there’s some intermediate form of commitment that would be acceptable during the moratorium. Let’s say they introduced the concept of a Letter of Intent. Teams would then be able to negotiate with players (including contract parameters), which would conclude with the signing of a Letter of Intent. Once the moratorium ends, the player would be expected to sign with that team — perhaps with an exception should the salary parameters deviate significantly from what they discussed. Or taking it a step further, perhaps the Letter of Intent SPECIFIES (by agreement between the two parties) an acceptable range of contract parameters, and as long as the team is able to offer a contract within those parameters, he’s committed to signing with that team. You can even add non-contract parameters — i.e., the player agrees to sign, so long as the team also signs X. Something like this could work.

As for the stuff with Fegan, I have no inside information about the details, and wouldn’t necessarily take reports like that at face value. But if Dan wasn’t there for the meeting with the Clips, I assume there’s SOMETHING happening there.

I don’t think there are going to be any sanctions. There was no formal agreement to break (by definition), and this sort of thing has happened several times before (Elton Brand, Hedo Turkoglu, Carlos Boozer, others).

Greg
Most underrated and overrated move of the offseason so far?

Larry Coon
Well, I think DeAndre Jordan to the Mavs has to be considered the most overrated move…

Okay seriously — I didn’t like either of the Knicks’ signings, especially Lopez. I thought they could have gotten better value for less money.

As for underrated, don’t ignore what Paul Pierce will likely bring to the Clippers. This team is on the cusp (now that DeAndre is back in the fold), and was lacking a lot of the attributes that Pierce will deliver. With Pierce on the roster, I doubt the team would have suffered the Game Six meltdown they did against Houston.

Ironically, Pierce was also available last summer, and instead the team went with Spencer Hawes (a move I applauded at the time). Who knew?

NBA Chat with Larry Coon 7/9/2015

[Ranma]

Michael Lee, Washington Post (7/9/15)

“McDyess calls me and he was literally in tears,” Colangelo said in a telephone interview. “McDyess is saying, ‘I made a mistake. I don’t want to go here. I don’t want to sign here.’ What I did was, [I said,] ‘Listen, Dice, you don’t have to do anything on an impulse. This is your future and you should do what’s right for you.’ ”
...

After flying into a snowstorm, Kidd, Chapman and McCloud took a limousine to McNichols Arena, where McDyess was expected to sign and get introduced at a Colorado Avalanche hockey game. Arena security denied the Suns players entrance to the arena after word of their arrival had somehow made it to Nuggets officials, including Dan Issel, who served in a dual role as coach and general manager. They eventually flew back to Phoenix empty-handed after McDyess decided to follow through on his oral agreement with Denver.
...

“This isn’t the first time an athlete would have second thoughts,” said Colangelo, who remains upset he was unable to close the deal as the Clippers did Thursday at midnight. “You try not to hold grudges in this business but certain things happen and you can’t believe that they happen.”
...

“That’s something that’s allowable. Just because you say you’re going to a certain team, you can change your mind. This is all being done within the rules,” a Western Conference general manager said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss the situation more freely. “The only thing it does is it makes it a very embarrassing situation for the league because this thing isn’t going how it’s supposed to work. Nobody is breaking the rules. You don’t know what’s going to happen until you put pen to paper. But all it takes is one incident like that … What happens now? We might have to change this thing.”
...

Colangelo doesn’t believe that a situation will materialize in which a team flippantly changes course on a player.

“Let’s put it this way, if a player does it, you’re talking about one individual affecting perhaps the way people view him. But at the end of the day, he’s doing what he feels is right for him and I don’t know if you can fault him for that,” he said. “If a team does it, now the team’s reputation is being viewed by 450 players, by 100-plus agents, by 29 other teams and I think the repercussions of a team backing out of a commitment is a lot more damaging. There is a ripple effect that has much bigger implications.”

DeAndre Jordan’s Mavericks-Clippers Flip-Flop Isn’t the First, But Could Lead to Changes

[Ranma]

Zach Lowe, Grantland.com (7/9/15)

Every decision flows from a previous one, and if they’re all empty whispers, the system collapses. Cuban will go crazy, and he’s right to do so, but he has no legal recourse, per several league sources. He never had a deal with Jordan. That’s why I don’t blame the Clippers for going hard after Jordan once he indicated his regret. They behaved rationally within the system.
...

One potential solution: Ban all talks until the end of the moratorium on July 9, so that when talks start, they can lead to enforceable, signed contracts right away. The NBA used a version of this system a long time ago, but the league ditched it because agents and teams talked anyway. They still do today. In explaining Jordan’s proto-move to Dallas, Kevin Arnovitz of ESPN.com wrote that during the season, “A few teams around the league started to quietly send out signals that, were Jordan to entertain the idea of playing somewhere other than with the Clippers next season, they’d be interested in his services.” You don’t even have to read between the lines to see the rule-breaking. Do you notice that whenever a player declines an option for the following season, he always signs a deal that pays him more?¹ That’s not an accident. That’s an agent canvassing teams ahead of time, searching for a fail-safe, and taking the appropriate next step depending on what he finds.
...

He didn’t get Howard, but a year later, Cuban wooed another Fegan client: Chandler Parsons. The Rockets let Parsons out of his contract a year early, and it’s widely known around the league — and yet never said on the record — that Houston did so as a repayment for Howard signing there.

I don’t know exactly how Fegan handled Jordan’s free agency. Only a few people do. People with the Clippers whined that Fegan had cost Jordan money by steering him away from his incumbent team — the team that can always offer the most. But the cap jumps coming in 2017 and 2018 had warped those traditional incentives. Jordan could have signed with Dallas, opted out after three seasons, signed a new max-level deal, and made more than he could have on the five-year max signed with the Clippers today. He could make the most going that same route with the Clippers,² which is why he signed a four-year max deal with a player option in the final season, per Ken Berger of CBS Sports.

Sorting Out the DeAndre Jordan Carnival

[Ranma]

First, Broussard initially tweeted Cuban was in the wrong city (Dallas) looking for Jordan's house before following up with the correction. Now he's still standing by his "sources" saying Cuban didn't come to Houston just to tweet all night implying that Cuban didn't drop by DeAndre's house only because he didn't know the address. However, wouldn't Cuban's buddy and DJ's agent, Dan Fegan, already have that info to present to Cuban?

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[Texas Chuck]

And I didn't accuse Doc of any wrong doing just now. But I will say that's embarrassing for him to make that comment.

And again, I have asked every single Clippers fan making the accusation of Fegan/Cuban colluding to provide some solid evidence of this from a non-LA source. Since its "clearly" you surely have plenty you can post.

I know you are a mod and you can ban me if you like, but seriously, what do you get out of this? it is done and over with. do you really wanna be like Ms Parsons?

Banned!


I mean what? First, I can't ban you on a board I don't mod. Second, I don't see anything in your post that is remotely bannable. Third, I get you aren't familiar with me, but I can assure you I wouldn't ban someone for seeing an issue like this differently. That would be beyond pathetic and an obvious abuse of mod powers.

What do I get out of it? I enjoy the discussion. Obviously some Clippers fans (you?) aren't going to be interested in a legit discussion with a Mavs fan on their board, but other guys have been. This is the biggest story of the off-season by far and it involves the team I root for. And I'm a basketball nerd who likes discussing it on forums.

[Quake Griffin]

"that is the dumbest **** I ever heard" =/= a complete denial.
Try it the next time you cheat on your girlfriends. It's not really that great of an answer...……..trust me.

I got Broussard's back here. I'm certain Cuban was enjoying a porterhouse somewhere in Houston and letting his $80 M investment go down the drain because DeAndre had company at his house.

[QRich3]

I for one welcome Chuck and the knowledgeable fans of other teams round these parts. I guess Quake is defensive cause we're so used to only get the moron fans coming over here with their hot takes, like the karma dude at the top of the page.

[nickhx2]

not sure what we're arguing about.

some fans are making claims that there was impropriety on the side of dallas and/or dj's agent. someone else asks for corroboration. that's all chuck wants. can't make a claim without pinning a burden of proof on yourself.

[QRich3]

not sure what we're arguing about.

some fans are making claims that there was impropriety on the side of dallas and/or dj's agent. someone else asks for corroboration. that's all chuck wants. can't make a claim without pinning a burden of proof on yourself.

Eh, there's never gonna be proof about any of that for either side, what do you expect, secret tapes of the meetings? only thing we can get is reporting about what sources told, which are hardly proof of anything and there's been some for each side. It appears most people are ready to believe one of the sides but not the other. Cuban told his side of the story, Parsons did too, both in a very scripted an calculated way. DJ chose not to, and Doc didn't either. Does that make them in the wrong? I don't think so. I know most people were ready to believe they were, even before knowing how the story unfolded, but I'm pretty sure things are a lot more grey than that.

[nickhx2]

sure, i agree with that. my suspicion is that there has been a long-running diary of impropriety with respect to this whole situation.

and no, no one can ever really have 100% proof. just saying, if we're all just here to discuss things. and in any argument, sometimes we just want some kind of corroboration if a claim is made. so i don't see any reason for people to jump on chuck for that.

[Woodsanity]

And I didn't accuse Doc of any wrong doing just now. But I will say that's embarrassing for him to make that comment.

And again, I have asked every single Clippers fan making the accusation of Fegan/Cuban colluding to provide some solid evidence of this from a non-LA source. Since its "clearly" you surely have plenty you can post.

I know you are a mod and you can ban me if you like, but seriously, what do you get out of this? it is done and over with. do you really wanna be like Ms Parsons?

Banned!


I mean what? First, I can't ban you on a board I don't mod. Second, I don't see anything in your post that is remotely bannable. Third, I get you aren't familiar with me, but I can assure you I wouldn't ban someone for seeing an issue like this differently. That would be beyond pathetic and an obvious abuse of mod powers.

What do I get out of it? I enjoy the discussion. Obviously some Clippers fans (you?) aren't going to be interested in a legit discussion with a Mavs fan on their board, but other guys have been. This is the biggest story of the off-season by far and it involves the team I root for. And I'm a basketball nerd who likes discussing it on forums.

I honestly think Mavs fan dodged a bullet with DJ. DJ with the current Mavs roster would be a perennial treadmill team. I feel like its time for Cuban to tank. Its sad because Dirk is still on the team and took a paycut but no point in being a 1st round exit or borderline playoff team. And the way DJ handled things was extreme poor, he really is a manchild similar to Dwight but he is our manchild so I can't hate him.

In my eyes the Clippers would be much more screwed without DJ than the Mavs. I do think the Clips could be legit contenders this season though our track record obviously hasn't been good. The addition of Pierce and Stephenson should help and hopefully trading Crawford for a good, defensive backup big.

Also when DJ left I was shocked. The Mavs must have really appealed to his ego and made him think he could have been Shaq-lite. No offense but I did not see the appeal in Dallas aside from the fact that it was his hometown and it gave him a chance to be the "1st option" but I really don't see DJ being the first option for the Mavs. Maybe he would have gotten a few more touches but thats it. So unless he really wanted to go home, really was delusional enough to believe that he was Shaq-esque or really wanted to screw CP3 over I didn't understand but it turns out that he is easily co-erced. I don't think he really thought things through when he gave the verbal agreement which is why he soon backed out. Just a sign of immaturity which was further emphasized when he didn't even talk things over with the Mavs or Cuban when he changed his mind.

I don't think the Clippers were at fault in any way. DJ was the one who initiated contact. It would be foolish for the Clips not to try to get him back. Would be 1-2 seasons wasted for CP3 and BG.

[Texas Chuck]

. Cuban told his side of the story, Parsons did too, both in a very scripted an calculated way.

I don't feel like we've really heard from Cuban yet on this. All he's really said so far was in response to that Broussard tweet. I'm still hoping for an epic Cuban rant. After all he's got an extra $80M or so with which to pay the fine.

And yeah I wish Parsons hadn't made those comments. I agree it was carefully scripted to make Jordan look bad without being overt. Hard to blame Parsons considering how personal this had to be for him, but I wish he had at least let some more time pass.


And yeah I know we can't get proof either way about what either side did wrong(if anything). Do I personally think Fegan was trying to influence him in some ways to go to Dallas? Yeah I think he probably was. Is that a bit shady considering his relationship with Cuban? yeah I think it probably is. Tho to be honest I'd expect he has other close relationships in the league and not just Dallas. But I can appreciate Clippers fans feeling like something untoward happened there.

But Jordan still held all the cards. Jordan still met with Parsons over and over and over. And assuming Parsons isn't lying about Jordan's own comments its hard for me to blame this solely on some kind of illegal collusion between Fegan and Cuban. After all Jordan always had complete control over that. And he seemed to be giving the Mavericks personal indications about wanting something different.

In the end, I think Jordan did nothing really wrong other than not communicating with Dallas at various points once he changed his mind. I don't think he thought that through very well and I was disappointed his family/Clippers leadership wasn't steering him to do so. Doc's comments in particular were pretty disappointing. Ordinarily your agent would be helping you, but obviously with the feelings toward Fegan obviously Fegan couldn't be of help.

I don't think the Clippers really did anything wrong either. I mean I could talk about the unwritten rule, but every team would have pursued him the exact same way. I mean even Cuban/Parsons were still trying to change his mind back again. No beef with the Clippers on this.

And I don't really know about Dallas. I don't want to believe we cheated in any way. I know Parsons talked to him during the season but of course that's totally legal and happens all the time. And Fegan can certainly be a part of discussing with his clients their futures. I can't imagine that Cuban or Donnie would be so stupid to risk tampering charges and I'm frankly stunned that so many Clippers fans seem to be ready to wholeheartedly believe that despite the only "evidence" out there being conjecture from sources with strong Clippers ties.

Anyway I didn't mean to stir things up over here and apologize for doing so. In the end Jordan is where he should have been and the Mavs will just have to make the best of it. We put all our eggs in that basket and counted on a man's word. Hard to feel bad about that.

[QRich3]

Cuban did tell his side of the story with every detail:



It's obvious the main problem here is DJ being an impressionable idiot that doesn't know how to say what he wants. My take on it is that his main mistake was to let his agent and the Dallas contingent convince him to do something he obviously didn't want to do, I don't care what Parsons claims he told him even if it's true. He obviously didn't want to go to Dallas to be the next Shaq, but was convinced of it anyway. I understand if Mavs fans think his main mistake was not to call Cuban with a decision, but that's just the final straw really.

Several reports say Fegan orchestrated all of this, and timed the meetings so as the Clippers only had a chance to speak to DJ when he already had his mind made up. Other reports say he then hijacked the Clippers meeting and started making unreasonable demands like trading Paul if you want DJ to stay. It's obvious that it wasn't DJ speaking because he ended up shunning his agent too, and by that action we can safely assume he painted the agent and the Mavs people on the same side, and it was a side he didn't want to be on. He didn't even let Fegan enter his house when he signed the Clippers contract, they had to send another agent from Relativity. Yes he is an idiot and carried himself the wrong way all through the process, and that affected both the Clippers and the Mavs equally (even if his final decision did not). But the Mavs knew he was an impressionable idiot when they prepared their pitch for him, that was the only reason at all they were able to convince him. Shouldn't act surprised and hurt when his idiot-ness comes back to hurt them.

[nickhx2]

live by the indecisiveness of a 26 year old, die by the indecisiveness of a 26 year old?

heh

[Texas Chuck]

Other reports say he then hijacked the Clippers meeting and started making unreasonable demands like trading Paul if you want DJ to stay..

I guess I'm a bit surprised you actually believe that report. Fegan may have done everything else reported, but I find this one ridiculous. He knows the Clippers are never trading Paul to accommodate Jordan. And I can't believe he would say that in negotiations. It's just absurd. I mean maybe it happened, but I'd take that with more of a grain of salt than most Clippers guys here seem to be.

I think more likely is Fegan saying look Jordan isn't really happy with Chris Paul right now and that's a potential obstacle to him re-signing. But flat out demanding they trade Paul? That doesn't pass the smell test of reality.

[QRich3]

Other reports say he then hijacked the Clippers meeting and started making unreasonable demands like trading Paul if you want DJ to stay..

I guess I'm a bit surprised you actually believe that report. Fegan may have done everything else reported, but I find this one ridiculous. He knows the Clippers are never trading Paul to accommodate Jordan. And I can't believe he would say that in negotiations. It's just absurd. I mean maybe it happened, but I'd take that with more of a grain of salt than most Clippers guys here seem to be.

I think more likely is Fegan saying look Jordan isn't really happy with Chris Paul right now and that's a potential obstacle to him re-signing. But flat out demanding they trade Paul? That doesn't pass the smell test of reality.

Never said I believed it, but it makes sense with what he was angling for, that he tried to sabotage the meeting or made sure it had general negative feeling to DJ. I wouldn't go as far as him making demands for a trade, mainly because being that blatant wouldn't be the most productive way to get what he wanted, but he probably suggested something along those lines, or made sure to antagonize the Clippers brass to DJ. I guess we'll never know, but that's the picture I'm painting in my head more or less.