Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas)

Ranma · Post #121 » by **Ranma** » Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:55 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:Oh, I was aware of that.

For some reason, the way you delivered it up above made me read/ comprehend what you wrote quite literally.

I was actually concerned about that when I wrote it, but I figured that everyone would get what I meant based on the common knowledge. My apologies for the laziness.

sportscrazy · Post #122 » by **sportscrazy** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:45 pm

If after the draft lottery, the Brooklyn Nets draft pick owed to the Celtics fell out of the top three picks and a multi-team deal sent Blake Griffin to the Celtics and Carmelo Anthony to the Clippers with that Brooklyn Nets pick, what extra draft pick incentive would be needed from the Clippers?

Clippers get: Carmelo Anthony and 5th Overall Draft Pick
Celtics get: Blake Griffin

What other draft picks does L.A. need from Boston to make this deal?

BlzMwt · Post #123 » by **BlzMwt** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:33 pm

Why would the Clippers want a rookie along with a veteran group of players ready to win a championship, with the key stars being in their 30s and have a history of injuries?

The rookie wouldn't contribute enough to make this worth it IMO, even with a selection of other picks.

In addition, its not like Doc would give the rookie(s) enough playing time to even warrant a trade like this happening.

nickhx2 · Post #124 » by **nickhx2** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:43 pm

sportscrazy wrote:If after the draft lottery, the Brooklyn Nets draft pick owed to the Celtics fell out of the top three picks and a multi-team deal sent Blake Griffin to the Celtics and Carmelo Anthony to the Clippers with that Brooklyn Nets pick, what extra draft pick incentive would be needed from the Clippers?

Clippers get: Carmelo Anthony and 5th Overall Draft Pick
Celtics get: Blake Griffin

What other draft picks does L.A. need from Boston to make this deal?

I think the main issue with any blake out/carmelo in type deals is that carmelo is not a player who moves the needle for LA.

per you: "Why for Los Angeles: The Clippers keep get a superstar appropriately aged for their current title window in Carmelo Anthony while switching things up after being knocked off in the second round for a few years. Carmelo could give the scoring that the Clippers need to keep up with the Warriors offense. "

First, blake is exactly the right age the clippers need. There is a real (and strange) belief out there that cp3 is old and over the hill. Except he's not, and his game will translate extremely well for a good long time. CP3 is going to continue to be great for several more years. Blake is just entering his prime and he is going to be so much better than he already is right now. So even as cp3 declines a little over the next few seasons, blake will keep getting better to more than make up for that. If you trade blake for anthony, then anthony declines as cp3 declines. This doesn't help the clippers win anything.

Second, blake is a better scorer than carmelo. I know anthony has range and is an offensive genius, but blake will soon develop that range and he's actually the offensive savant himself with mega athleticism. It's just hard to tell because people want to think he only dunks (and shoots lots of jumpers this year) but come playoff time it will all come together. Even before his injury blake was doing so many things he wasn't doing before. He's learned to put it all together over this year and last year's playoffs.

So your premise is based on the idea that carmelo provides LA more championship equity than blake. But blake is better RIGHT now and he is going to be a LOT better in the coming years, MVP level better. In order to match that gap value-wise, and assuming the premise of your trade is still "clips want to win rings right now" then LA needs more immediate return. So any packages that are like 2017 picks and beyond run directly counter to that. Even the brooklyn 2016 pick is tough because there is no guarantee you get simmons, and even if you get him there is no guarantee a rookie (as highly touted as he is) can help you win rings. So basically, picks are not great value for LA either.

But if you really insist on a trade between the two it really would have to be something like carmelo + crowder (or bradley or smart for example) + brooklyn pick of some sort because LA needs to be gaining more immediate championship equity under the premise of your trade. As mentioned, though, carmelo is not a guy who helps all that much. That's why trades like the denver one, miami getting bosh back, or even just straight up with boston are more palatable because those teams could actually provide a lot more depth and win now pieces.

Post #125 » by **og15** » Wed Mar 9, 2016 3:49 pm

Here's an early thought / question about the off-season. Should / will the Clippers keep Jamal Crawford?

Post #126 » by **QRich3** » Wed Mar 9, 2016 5:19 pm

Should? NO!

Will they? most likely

Post #127 » by **og15** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:08 am

It scares me. I wouldn't even mind him on a decent contract if it was a coach that wouldn't play him so much like Doc would end up doing. With Doc as the coach though, and his love for him, it's a scary thought.

I think Doc could really have gotten more out of Lance if he had planned to let him take Crawford's role. There has to be a point where you're moving away from a 35 year old isolation player being your main bench player. Just seems logical doesn't it?

Crawford had the "tenure" though, and it probably didn't help that Lance and Austin aren't really a good fit. The best bench lineup to use Lance would have the 1-3 be Pablo / Lance / Johnson, someone (most likely Pierce) at PF, and Aldrich at C. That's taking away two of Doc's favorite players, so obviously that was not going to happen.

We'll see I suppose...

nickhx2 · Post #128 » by **nickhx2** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:20 am

get tired of thinking about it and repeating it (ya, guys, even me) but imo it was criminal that the team never got to play with a lineup that didn't include crawford/pierce, or at least feature all of its most athletic defenders off the bench together.

aldrich/smith/wes/lance/austin should have been a storm of athleticism and chaos on defense. i guess what's done is done so we should just look forward to pierce taking all of wes's minutes off the bench once blake returns. anyone ready for some more -40 net rating lineups with pierce/crawford playing together?

can't wait

LACtdom · Post #129 » by **LACtdom** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:25 am

og15 wrote:It scares me. I wouldn't even mind him on a decent contract if it was a coach that wouldn't play him so much like Doc would end up doing. With Doc as the coach though, and his love for him, it's a scary thought.

I think Doc could really have gotten more out of Lance if he had planned to let him take Crawford's role. There has to be a point where you're moving away from a 35 year old isolation player being your main bench player. Just seems logical doesn't it?

Crawford had the "tenure" though, and it probably didn't help that Lance and Austin aren't really a good fit. The best bench lineup to use Lance would have the 1-3 be Pablo / Lance / Johnson, someone (most likely Pierce) at PF, and Aldrich at C. That's taking away two of Doc's favorite players, so obviously that was not going to happen.

We'll see I suppose...

I agree so much. I still dream about a bench lineup of even Crawford, Lance, Wes, Green & Cole with Luc or Pierce starting since we don't need more offense. It's pretty sad when even my dream lineups include me compromising with Doc's love for Jamal.

Wammy Giveaway · Post #130 » by **Wammy Giveaway** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:50 am

From Ailene Voison of The Sacramento Bee:

Ailene Voison wrote:You don’t dump your primary asset without getting value in return. You don’t even need a great deal. You need a good deal. The Kings are 13-41 without him in his five-plus seasons. And for all of Cousins’ detractors and his many issues – and where to even start? – he will have suitors.

A number of league executives fancy themselves as saviors, perceive the Kings as perpetually dysfunctional and are intrigued by the All-Star center’s enormous talents. Keep an eye on Houston, Dallas, Boston, the Lakers and the Clippers, to name a few.

If the Clippers have a third 2nd round exit this season, be prepared for Doc Rivers to break up the Big 3, starting with DeAndre Jordan. Blake Griffin may still be offered to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Kevin Durant in a sign-and-trade, but Marc Bermon of The New York Post writes that Doc might opt to swap for Carmelo Anthony instead due to Chris Paul's friendship with the Knicks small forward, as well as an opportunity to avoid the sign-and-trade caveat of a hard cap. Doc will have has hands full, especially that Durant will be a free agent, and a lockout is coming. If Doc plays his cards right, he could be the sole owner of all three superstars.

Think of the lineup: Paul-Redick-Durant-Anthony-Cousins.

That's a Team USA lineup if Redick were an All Star.

Neddy · Post #131 » by **Neddy** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:14 am

Wammy Giveaway wrote:From Ailene Voison of The Sacramento Bee:

Ailene Voison wrote:You don’t dump your primary asset without getting value in return. You don’t even need a great deal. You need a good deal. The Kings are 13-41 without him in his five-plus seasons. And for all of Cousins’ detractors and his many issues – and where to even start? – he will have suitors.

A number of league executives fancy themselves as saviors, perceive the Kings as perpetually dysfunctional and are intrigued by the All-Star center’s enormous talents. Keep an eye on Houston, Dallas, Boston, the Lakers and the Clippers, to name a few.

If the Clippers have a third 2nd round exit this season, be prepared for Doc Rivers to break up the Big 3, starting with DeAndre Jordan. Blake Griffin may still be offered to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Kevin Durant in a sign-and-trade, but Marc Bermon of The New York Post writes that Doc might opt to swap for Carmelo Anthony instead due to Chris Paul's friendship with the Knicks small forward, as well as an opportunity to avoid the sign-and-trade caveat of a hard cap. Doc will have has hands full, especially that Durant will be a free agent, and a lockout is coming. If Doc plays his cards right, he could be the sole owner of all three superstars.

Think of the lineup: Paul-Redick-Durant-Anthony-Cousins.

That's a Team USA lineup if Redick were an All Star.

how do you get Durant AND Anthony for one Blake Griffin?

and no, Kings won't give up Cousins just for DJ and if they do, Vlade needs to be fired immediately thereafter. Kings will want, or at least they should be asking for, Blake for Boogie.

sportscrazy · Post #132 » by **sportscrazy** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:05 pm

I did a draft lottery simulator where the Wizards ended up with the 2nd overall draft pick... If they were to use that pick to pursue Blake Griffin and offered Otto Porter, Markieff Morris, Drew Gooden and the 2nd Overall Draft Pick for Blake, would the Clippers entertain that offer? If so, would they go total rebuild from there and also find a Chris Paul trade or would they find a third party to give them more of a win now piece for the 2nd Overall Draft Pick?

Neddy · Post #133 » by **Neddy** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:36 am

sportscrazy wrote:I did a draft lottery simulator where the Wizards ended up with the 2nd overall draft pick... If they were to use that pick to pursue Blake Griffin and offered Otto Porter, Markieff Morris, Drew Gooden and the 2nd Overall Draft Pick for Blake, would the Clippers entertain that offer? If so, would they go total rebuild from there and also find a Chris Paul trade or would they find a third party to give them more of a win now piece for the 2nd Overall Draft Pick?

no.

Clemenza · Post #134 » by **Clemenza** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:52 pm

Alex Stephenson, who we just let go after his 2nd 10 contract was up, just put up a 12 point 15 rebound performance as a new member of the Memphis Grizzlies.. another brilliant move by Doc :banghead:

TucsonClip · Post #135 » by **TucsonClip** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:13 pm

Clemenza wrote:Alex Stephenson, who we just let go after his 2nd 10 contract was up, just put up a 12 point 15 rebound performance as a new member of the Memphis Grizzlies.. another brilliant move by Doc

Have you seen the Grizzlies' active roster? You could have started at C for them.

Forte IV · Post #136 » by **Forte IV** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:38 pm

He was also 5-17 from the field and his team got blown out 130-81. So...

Post #137 » by **og15** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:49 pm

Yea, the guy is shooting 27% FG in his two games with them, and he fouled out in 25 minutes in that 12 pts / 15 reb game. Yes, he can rebound, but being able to rebound doesn't mean being able to score efficiently as a role player, defend, protect the rim, etc, etc

I know people are sour on the front office's player acquisitions, but let's also be fair about it.

Post #138 » by **og15** » Sat Apr 9, 2016 10:34 pm

Since the season is almost over now, we are getting that Brooklyn 2nd round pick, since the Raptors kept pace and will finish with the better record.

Currently the DraftExpress mock draft has the Clippers taking Brice Johnson, but it's so early that nothing in the range means anything right now.

Ranma · Post #139 » by **Ranma** » Sat Apr 9, 2016 10:41 pm

og15 wrote:Since the season is almost over now, we are getting that Brooklyn 2nd round pick, since the Raptors kept pace and will finish with the better record.

Currently the DraftExpress mock draft has the Clippers taking Brice Johnson, but it's so early that nothing in the range means anything right now.

Johnson seems like he would be a nice get in the 2nd round. I've heard comparisons to Taj Gibson without the wingspan but there have been questions about the consistency of his motor. I posted some stuff about him and other draft prospects recently in another thread discussing the draft.

mttwlsn16 · Post #140 » by **mttwlsn16** » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:06 am

Ranma wrote:
og15 wrote:Since the season is almost over now, we are getting that Brooklyn 2nd round pick, since the Raptors kept pace and will finish with the better record.

Currently the DraftExpress mock draft has the Clippers taking Brice Johnson, but it's so early that nothing in the range means anything right now.

Johnson seems like he would be a nice get in the 2nd round. I've heard comparisons to Taj Gibson without the wingspan but there have been questions about the consistency of his motor. I posted some stuff about him and other draft prospects recently in another thread discussing the draft.

Brice Johnson was an absolute beast this year for UNC. I don't see him being around in the 2nd round.