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D'Angelo Russell Projections

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Re: D'angelo Russell Projections 

Post#181 » by jirojan » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:54 pm

I'm seeing some Brandon roy in his game...not a true 1, but more of a 1.5
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Re: D'angelo Russell Projections 

Post#182 » by stan francisco » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:56 pm

lake_show wrote:
stan francisco wrote:I will be smiling quietly when you do. The kid is a kid. It's hard stuff to understand.

And I'm also happy to see people here finally coming around to the idea of utilizing his biggest strengths, which means playing him the two spot. What took everyone so long?


Both D'Lo and the Lakers have been horrible this year when he plays the "two spot". A few extremely hard to watch games of trying to play Clarkson, and Ennis at the one while D'Lo floats around at the "two spot" was more than enough to deal with. The first game D'Lo gets back to playing the "one spot" (offensively) and he goes off for 40, and 6. We've tried it. It doesn't work. This is who he is. We need to move forward and utilize him for what he is, or trade him for what we want. D'Lo is a scroing PG, that's just what it is.


Tried it when? With whom at PG? For how many games have you seen Russell starting at SG next to an elite PG? I've consistently said for some time that I think we need a defensive beast PG who is a pass first offensive player with low turnover to assist ratio. This, so that we can move Russell to SG position, where he can both score and playmake. I particularly think an inside out game with Zubać will be a perfect fit for Russell if allowed to play off the ball a bit. He's a combo guard. Again, I see his ceiling as playmaking SG being higher than his ceiling as scoring PG. He's a scoring guard first."Face it, Happy. You're a golfer!"
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Re: D'angelo Russell Projections 

Post#183 » by TyCobb » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:57 pm

The sample size is so small with Russ at the 2 whereas there is no doubt it was a failed experiment with him as a one.
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Re: D'angelo Russell Projections 

Post#184 » by danfantastk32 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:04 pm

lake_show wrote:Well, if they didn't believe in him as a PG they wouldn't have played him at PG last night.


You gotta finish the season first, and then sign Fultz/Ball (assuming we get that pick, which we may not)...right? I mean, come on..that's not really an argument for the guy. Clarkson isn't the answer at all....nobody thinks he is. They aren't auditioning Clarkson at Point....they are auditioning Russell at SG.

lake_show wrote:I think Nick getting hurt was a god-send for the Lakers. Sure, trying D'Lo out at SG is an interesting proposal but it doesn't actually pan out the way you want it in real life. Last night showed exactly what, and who he is. In some odd way the "D'Lo at SG" experiment only came to show 1) That D'Lo is a PG, and 2) Clarkson is not a full-time PG type player. Clarkson needs to be able to opperate outside off the offense. Even though he is cable of running some stes for you, he's not a "run the offense" type of guy.


Russell had a great game, no doubt. If he had more like that to hang his hat on.....none of this would be going on. That's obvious as well. 4.7 assists this season is not very "Point-Guardy". Last night showed he can hit those 3's. And he can fill the points bracket. I think last night was a very strong argument for making him the SG. 14-22 shooting isn't bad at all. I hope he doesn't lose the ability to pass / move the ball. Nothing wrong with a SG who get's himself a handful of assists each game. I think that makes him even deadlier.
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Re: D'angelo Russell Projections 

Post#185 » by Princeinrevolt » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:09 pm

stan francisco wrote:
lake_show wrote:
stan francisco wrote:I will be smiling quietly when you do. The kid is a kid. It's hard stuff to understand.

And I'm also happy to see people here finally coming around to the idea of utilizing his biggest strengths, which means playing him the two spot. What took everyone so long?


Both D'Lo and the Lakers have been horrible this year when he plays the "two spot". A few extremely hard to watch games of trying to play Clarkson, and Ennis at the one while D'Lo floats around at the "two spot" was more than enough to deal with. The first game D'Lo gets back to playing the "one spot" (offensively) and he goes off for 40, and 6. We've tried it. It doesn't work. This is who he is. We need to move forward and utilize him for what he is, or trade him for what we want. D'Lo is a scroing PG, that's just what it is.


Tried it when? With whom at PG? For how many games have you seen Russell starting at SG next to an elite PG? I've consistently said for some time that I think we need a defensive beast PG who is a pass first offensive player with low turnover to assist ratio. This, so that we can move Russell to SG position, where he can both score and playmake. I particularly think an inside out game with Zubać will be a perfect fit for Russell if allowed to play off the ball a bit. He's a combo guard. Again, I see his ceiling as playmaking SG being higher than his ceiling as scoring PG. He's a scoring guard first."Face it, Happy. You're a golfer!"


Patrick Beverly would be a good fit with D'angelo Russell. D'angelo is more of a "Lead Guard". It doesn't really matter what position he plays, all that he needs is someone in either position (PG/SG) to be able to playmake, play good defense, and shoot threes.
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Re: D'angelo Russell Projections 

Post#186 » by lake_show » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:13 pm

stan francisco wrote:
lake_show wrote:
stan francisco wrote:I will be smiling quietly when you do. The kid is a kid. It's hard stuff to understand.

And I'm also happy to see people here finally coming around to the idea of utilizing his biggest strengths, which means playing him the two spot. What took everyone so long?


Both D'Lo and the Lakers have been horrible this year when he plays the "two spot". A few extremely hard to watch games of trying to play Clarkson, and Ennis at the one while D'Lo floats around at the "two spot" was more than enough to deal with. The first game D'Lo gets back to playing the "one spot" (offensively) and he goes off for 40, and 6. We've tried it. It doesn't work. This is who he is. We need to move forward and utilize him for what he is, or trade him for what we want. D'Lo is a scroing PG, that's just what it is.


Tried it when? With whom at PG? For how many games have you seen Russell starting at SG next to an elite PG? I've consistently said for some time that I think we need a defensive beast PG who is a pass first offensive player with low turnover to assist ratio. This, so that we can move Russell to SG position, where he can both score and playmake. I particularly think an inside out game with Zubać will be a perfect fit for Russell if allowed to play off the ball a bit. He's a combo guard. Again, I see his ceiling as playmaking SG being higher than his ceiling as scoring PG. Hea a scoring guard first.


Yes bud, but that's all "conceptual". All these "what I think" scenarios don't always pan out in real life. We've seen him play next a PG (elite, or not), he's not that good. As of right now, he's just better running the offense. He's not a great slasher, he's doesn't have great tripple threat moves, he's not great getting himself open off of screens, he IS good at hitting spot up jumpers. That's it, though. You move D'Lo to SG and he just isnt as much of a threat as he is at PG. He becomes a spot up jump shooter. Even his post moves aren't as effective against taller guys. It's just a waste of his talent.

I understand he hasnt played with any real elite level "True PG's", but there really arent that many in the NBA anymore. That's a dying breed. Most very good PG's in the league right now ARE combo guards, or scoring PG's. All those scenarios you're throwing out that include a "True PG", that's a different era you're talking about. The days of having a ton of elite level "True PG's" has past. That luxury just doesnt exist anymore.
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Re: D'angelo Russell Projections 

Post#187 » by Princeinrevolt » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:20 pm

You really can't say he isn't a point guard, because he doesn't have "Point-Guardy" numbers. The guy plays 27 minutes, and he is surrounded with players that can't shoot.
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Re: D'angelo Russell Projections 

Post#188 » by stan francisco » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:20 pm

lake_show wrote:
stan francisco wrote:
lake_show wrote:
Both D'Lo and the Lakers have been horrible this year when he plays the "two spot". A few extremely hard to watch games of trying to play Clarkson, and Ennis at the one while D'Lo floats around at the "two spot" was more than enough to deal with. The first game D'Lo gets back to playing the "one spot" (offensively) and he goes off for 40, and 6. We've tried it. It doesn't work. This is who he is. We need to move forward and utilize him for what he is, or trade him for what we want. D'Lo is a scroing PG, that's just what it is.


Tried it when? With whom at PG? For how many games have you seen Russell starting at SG next to an elite PG? I've consistently said for some time that I think we need a defensive beast PG who is a pass first offensive player with low turnover to assist ratio. This, so that we can move Russell to SG position, where he can both score and playmake. I particularly think an inside out game with Zubać will be a perfect fit for Russell if allowed to play off the ball a bit. He's a combo guard. Again, I see his ceiling as playmaking SG being higher than his ceiling as scoring PG. Hea a scoring guard first.


Yes bud, but that's all "conceptual". All these "what I think" scenarios don't always pan out in real life. We've seen him play next a PG (elite, or not), he's not that good. As of right now, he's just better running the offense. He's not a great slasher, he's doesn't have great tripple threat moves, he's not great getting himself open off of screens, he IS good at hitting spot up jumpers. That's it, though. You move D'Lo to SG and he just isnt as much of a threat as he is at PG. He becomes a spot up jump shooter. Even his post moves aren't as effective against taller guys. It's just a waste of his talent.

I understand he hasnt played with any real elite level "True PG's", but there really arent that many in the NBA anymore. That's a dying breed. Most very good PG's in the league right now ARE combo guards, or scoring PG's. All those scenarios you're throwing out that include a "True PG", that's a different era you're talking about. The days of having a ton of elite level "True PG's" has past. That luxury just doesnt exist anymore.



Good luck to you.
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Re: D'angelo Russell Projections 

Post#189 » by lake_show » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:26 pm

danfantastk32 wrote:
lake_show wrote:Well, if they didn't believe in him as a PG they wouldn't have played him at PG last night.


You gotta finish the season first, and then sign Fultz/Ball (assuming we get that pick, which we may not)...right? I mean, come on..that's not really an argument for the guy. Clarkson isn't the answer at all....nobody thinks he is. They aren't auditioning Clarkson at Point....they are auditioning Russell at SG.

lake_show wrote:I think Nick getting hurt was a god-send for the Lakers. Sure, trying D'Lo out at SG is an interesting proposal but it doesn't actually pan out the way you want it in real life. Last night showed exactly what, and who he is. In some odd way the "D'Lo at SG" experiment only came to show 1) That D'Lo is a PG, and 2) Clarkson is not a full-time PG type player. Clarkson needs to be able to opperate outside off the offense. Even though he is cable of running some stes for you, he's not a "run the offense" type of guy.


Russell had a great game, no doubt. If he had more like that to hang his hat on.....none of this would be going on. That's obvious as well. 4.7 assists this season is not very "Point-Guardy". Last night showed he can hit those 3's. And he can fill the points bracket. I think last night was a very strong argument for making him the SG. 14-22 shooting isn't bad at all. I hope he doesn't lose the ability to pass / move the ball. Nothing wrong with a SG who get's himself a handful of assists each game. I think that makes him even deadlier.


Doesn't matter. People are getting caught up with this whole idea that the PG gets a lot of assists, and thats the only reason he's a PG. The PG is the guy that runs the offense. He got most, if not all, of those shots off from being the one running the offense. How does that make an argument for him being a SG? He played about 8 SG mins last night. 3 at the end of the 2nd, and 5 at the end of the 4th (EDIT: 4th, not 3rd). I'll grant you it's a small sample size, but they werent all that spectacular.

Steve Nash averaged 3.4 apg on 21 mpg his second season in the NBA. Not very "point guardy". Now, D'Lo is no where near the PG Nash was, but it didnt matter if Nash averaged 2 apg... Can he run an offense?... That's the real question. Same for D'Lo. For both, the answer is yes... And both play better when they are running the offense.
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Re: D'angelo Russell Projections 

Post#190 » by lake_show » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:28 pm

stan francisco wrote:
lake_show wrote:
stan francisco wrote:
Tried it when? With whom at PG? For how many games have you seen Russell starting at SG next to an elite PG? I've consistently said for some time that I think we need a defensive beast PG who is a pass first offensive player with low turnover to assist ratio. This, so that we can move Russell to SG position, where he can both score and playmake. I particularly think an inside out game with Zubać will be a perfect fit for Russell if allowed to play off the ball a bit. He's a combo guard. Again, I see his ceiling as playmaking SG being higher than his ceiling as scoring PG. Hea a scoring guard first.


Yes bud, but that's all "conceptual". All these "what I think" scenarios don't always pan out in real life. We've seen him play next a PG (elite, or not), he's not that good. As of right now, he's just better running the offense. He's not a great slasher, he's doesn't have great tripple threat moves, he's not great getting himself open off of screens, he IS good at hitting spot up jumpers. That's it, though. You move D'Lo to SG and he just isnt as much of a threat as he is at PG. He becomes a spot up jump shooter. Even his post moves aren't as effective against taller guys. It's just a waste of his talent.

I understand he hasnt played with any real elite level "True PG's", but there really arent that many in the NBA anymore. That's a dying breed. Most very good PG's in the league right now ARE combo guards, or scoring PG's. All those scenarios you're throwing out that include a "True PG", that's a different era you're talking about. The days of having a ton of elite level "True PG's" has past. That luxury just doesnt exist anymore.



Good luck to you.


Thank you.
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Re: D'angelo Russell Projections 

Post#191 » by Tee212 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:39 pm

Michael Lucky wrote:
Tee212 wrote:No the lakers got him cause his best asset was passing and that hes a true PG. this year he worked on scoring first and everyone thinks hes a sg and not a real pg. Now his last scoring outburst hes no longer a pg? does it even matter at this point? what do you call westbrook SG/PG? does it matter? imo these days to be successful at the PG you need to have a score first mentality, guys like rondo,rubio and more like them with pass first mentality are no where to be heard from today.

Ugh no. He played SG at Ohio State. He averaged 19/5/5 but was always primarily a scorer who also made the highlight pass.



they started him as a PG with the mentality that he has a size advantage over other PG's by posting him up esp on lillard/cp3/kyrie...it soo soo worked. but again...kyrie is supposed to be a pg but hes a scoring machine. does the pg/sg label matter? what about harden and westbrook.

but anyways russell has elite shooting release better than curry imo and prolly my fav left handed shooter.
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Re: D'angelo Russell Projections 

Post#192 » by ratra_1211 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:36 am

can we just call him a guard for now
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Re: D'angelo Russell Projections 

Post#193 » by TyCobb » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:43 am

ratra_1211 wrote:can we just call him a guard for now


I prefer to call him the best scorer on the team. Which means, his best role for this team, at this time, is a high volume shot taking guard, or shooting guard :D .
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Re: D'angelo Russell Projections 

Post#194 » by B-Scott » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:57 am

It's easy to average 10 assist when Shawn Marion can catch and finish. Amare Stouudamire can catch and finish and Boris Diaw had a nice mid-range 15 footer. Julius Randle, has bad hands off the pick n roll and can't make the mid-range jumper. All he does is dribble 20 times. That ruins D'Angelo Russell assist. Tari Black, has worse hands since Kwame Brown, and each time Russell, drops the bounce pass he fumbles the ball. Luke needs to play Zubac, Russell and Nance more often. Zubac has great hands, and Nance is a great finisher at the rim. Surround Russell with guy's that can finish at the rim and three point shooters
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Re: D'angelo Russell Projections 

Post#195 » by TyCobb » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:21 am

B-Scott wrote:It's easy to average 10 assist when Shawn Marion can catch and finish. Amare Stouudamire can catch and finish and Boris Diaw had a nice mid-range 15 footer. Julius Randle, has bad hands off the pick n roll and can't make the mid-range jumper. All he does is dribble 20 times. That ruins D'Angelo Russell assist. Tari Black, has worse hands since Kwame Brown, and each time Russell, drops the bounce pass he fumbles the ball. Luke needs to play Zubac, Russell and Nance more often. Zubac has great hands, and Nance is a great finisher at the rim. Surround Russell with guy's that can finish at the rim and three point shooters


Nash should hand those MVP's to Kobe then.
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Re: D'angelo Russell Projections 

Post#196 » by iamworthy » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:20 am

What B-Scott was talking about in the locked thread is.... Byron Scott was on Sports Nation today and Marcelus Wiley asked Byron ""does this save his job as the future of the lakers" talking about Russell, and Byron said no. So does Byron know something we dont?
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Re: D'angelo Russell Projections 

Post#197 » by TyCobb » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:25 am

Blame it on the horrible title. Plus, plenty of other DLO threads to put that in.

There is a noticeable change in Russell's body language the minute Lou Will got moved. I don't think he is auditioning for a role here or elsewhere, but more finally coming into his own as an NBA player.
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Re: D'angelo Russell Projections 

Post#198 » by danfantastk32 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:31 am

TyCobb wrote:Blame it on the horrible title. Plus, plenty of other DLO threads to put that in.

There is a noticeable change in Russell's body language the minute Lou Will got moved. I don't think he is auditioning for a role here or elsewhere, but more finally coming into his own as an NBA player.


Yeah...I think you put it best, the guy looks best when he's taking shots. Most people call that a shooting guard. I think he will do much better defending the opposing SG. Sure seems like a good fit.

It's really not an insult. Peeps get so touchy when the topic of Russell comes up. It's fascinating. Whatever he does best...do more of that. I think his PG tendencies will be valuable, if he does decide to play SG. He can completely create....has the court vision, and will have that knack for passing that not many SG's possess. I GREAT fit in a high-movement offense, like the one Luke want's to create.

I don't think the Lakers see him as the future PG of the team. Perhaps the draft hooplah is playing a role...perhaps not. I've noticed Luke having Ingram bring up the ball and initiate the offense throughout the season as well. It almost seems like Luke has never been satisfied with DLo's fit. Either way....they're publicly stating that they want him to play "off the ball" the rest of the season.

Are they seeing if he plays it much better? Are they seeing how he mentally accepts it? I don't know....but they clearly want him, and all of us to know that they are doing this. Now I guess it's up to him to accept the role, and go do it. I think it's a great idea myself. I think it frees him up to do what he's really best at. Hopefully he has more of the 14-22 shooting nights (next year of course...no more 40-point games this year please!) and turns into the productive player we hoped for.

I call it an "audition" though, because if we get the lotto pick, we prob will trade DLo if he doesn't like this new role. It comes across as pretty "cart before the horse" to publicly take him out of that role BEFORE you even have the replacement. That makes me believe the Lakers STRONGLY feel he's not the answer at PG.
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Re: D'angelo Russell Projections 

Post#199 » by stan francisco » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:49 am

TyCobb wrote:Blame it on the horrible title. Plus, plenty of other DLO threads to put that in.

There is a noticeable change in Russell's body language the minute Lou Will got moved. I don't think he is auditioning for a role here or elsewhere, but more finally coming into his own as an NBA player.


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Re: D'angelo Russell Projections 

Post#200 » by danfantastk32 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:26 am

lake_show wrote:People are getting caught up with this whole idea that the PG gets a lot of assists, and thats the only reason he's a PG.


All-time NBA Assist leaders:
1 John Stockton 15,806 2 Jason Kidd 12,091
3 Steve Nash 10,335 4 Mark Jackson 10,334
5 Magic Johnson 10,141 6 Oscar Robertson 9,887
7 Isiah Thomas 9,061 8 Gary Payton 8,966
9 ANDRE MILLER 8,524 10 CHRIS PAUL 8,155
11 Rod Strickland 7,987 12 Maurice Cheeks 7,392
13 LeBRON JAMES 7,370 14 Lenny Wilkens 7,211
15 Terry Porter 7,160 16 Tim Hardaway 7,095
17 Bob Cousy 6,955 18 Guy Rodgers 6,917
19 DERON WILLIAMS 6,775 20 Muggsy Bogues 6,726
21 Kevin Johnson 6,711 22 TONY PARKER 6,590
23 Derek Harper 6,577 24 Nate Archibald 6,476
25 Stephon Marbury 6,471

I'm seeing a trend here.......

Nobody's getting "caught up" in anything. The PG runs the offense, right? That typically means they dish the assists. You can say in today's NBA you have some guys like Harden or Lebron leading in assists....but they are also doing what? That's right...running the offense. It's a little hard to make heads or tails of what our guys are doing half the time, because it's this disfunctional mish-mash of youth, and badly overpaid Vets. But don't spin it like it's some "crazy PG-assist propaganda" against Russell. If Russell is running the offense well....the assists would come. And you can't make the argument he is running the offense well. We're 25th in offensive efficiency. It's pretty hard to make the argument anyone is doing a great job with this 20-win pile.

I really don't wanna sit here and shred on Russell. I'm GLAD they are doing this, and I hope it works. This team has plenty it needs to fix. We're bottom 5 in overall assists. We're 28th in Assists ratio. We're #13 in scoring, but #28 in points allowed. 8th in turnovers (low being BAD). 25th in Offensive efficiency, and #30 (dead last) in defensive efficiency.

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