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Doormatt wrote:why would i bother if, by evident of your posts, you clearly have a illogical bias against jim buss.

you dont even have a point, you just keep going on about how its jim buss's fault that the lakers are no longer acting with class and loyalty (which is completely made up and based on nothing really), and that its all his fault when theres absolutely ZERO evidence jim buss had anything to do with not hiring jackson, or that he was the reason we didnt get him.

Because you don't have anything to say, you just want to argue...

If I am wrong lets see yr evidence?

Btw, I am basing Jim buss not hiring of Phil based on his hiring of mike brown. Go back and learn something, about how that went down, Jim buss gas earned this scrutiny.

And you've never been terribly bright in the past, I don't expect anything to change now.
The point, my point, that you are too dense to get is that Jim bases his decisions on emotion and bias, not the betterment of the team or the fans.
That is the difference between a horse trainer and Jerry buss or Jerry west or Mitch kupchak

It's bush league amateur hour vs. professionalism

Regardless of feelings one way or the other.


Answer this ; is this currently constructed better suited for half court schemes? Or run and gun open court schemes?

kobeaki wrote:
Your setting up a strawman theory are linking my words to the strawman.

Once again, do you know what this word means? If you can do so, point out the strawman. Note, however, this is no invitation to paraphrase what I have said, I'm looking for exact quotes.

Magic got westhead fired. Everyone knows this.

Is there really any material difference here? How would it be different from Kobe's alleged death stare getting Brown fired? Who still had to choose to do the firing, in both cases?

Yes west and Jerry clashed, but no one was fired because of it.
Jim runs things differently.

You know this.

Oh okay, that's not a purposely vague statement with zero supporting evidence at all.

The Krause reinsdorf situation is much like this , and Krause is the ahole here because he was , just well an ahole... Ask any bulls employee , especially Scotty or Michael. So that cannot be pinned on Phil, that was greed that broke that party up, and Phil was mostly right.

Wait, you admit the situations in Chicago and LA are similar, and yet it doesn't strike you as odd the role Phil played in the first is the exact same he's played here? And for all this, he's "mostly" right? I'd be curious to know just where you think he was wrong then. As it stands, this whole passage is one ugly non-sequitur.

I don't see how west was Jimmy's mentor, at the time and until the early oughts, jimmy was only charged with taking care of the ponies, that belonged to his dad. Jimmy reluctantly entered the family business around the same time west left.

Jerry sold his horseracing stock in '97, the same year Jimmy very eagerly came on board as one of West's assistants under Player Development. Phil was brought in 2 years later, and West resigned in late 2000. Here, I'll show you how to source:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

You know Jim hates Phil and vice versa, so why is it so " conspiratorial " to think that Jim is getting a kick into Phil while he can?

Why is it assumed Jim is the only one to feel that way? Why is it taken for granted that Jim's ego is responsible, but at the same time radically unorthodox to suggest that the simplest explanation is the likeliest one? How come Jim (and possibly Jerry) are totally in the wrong, but Phil is totally in the clear?

No matter WHAT you think happened, no matter HOW You think this deal went down, nothing is ever so black-and-white as that. Yet this is precisely what those who would have us believe Jim is the villain want us to believe, you included. This goes for all the little details that contradict your preconceived attitudes, all the tiny wrinkles that suggest Phil overreached in his demands. That's far too biased of a "fair" account than I'm willing to accept.

Here's the deal, because you couldn't comprehend it before.

Jim buss, made a decision by himself in hiring mike brown. It was terrible. It's been now proven to be terrible.

Stopped reading there.

What the hell is yr position again? Because yr trying to insult me, but have taken no position on the situation, just that the unwashed masses who don't happen to agree with you , are wrong.

At this rate, you haven't noticed it so far, so why waste more of my time with you?

kobeaki wrote:Because you don't have anything to say, you just want to argue...

If I am wrong lets see yr evidence?

Btw, I am basing Jim buss not hiring of Phil based on his hiring of mike brown. Go back and learn something, about how that went down, Jim buss gas earned this scrutiny.

And you've never been terribly bright in the past, I don't expect anything to change now.
The point, my point, that you are too dense to get is that Jim bases his decisions on emotion and bias, not the betterment of the team or the fans.
That is the difference between a horse trainer and Jerry buss or Jerry west or Mitch kupchak

It's bush league amateur hour vs. professionalism

Regardless of feelings one way or the other.


Answer this ; is this currently constructed better suited for half court schemes? Or run and gun open court schemes?

lol ive never been bright and I"M the dense one? ok

and d'antoni is not simply run and gun open court. his offensive system is actually much more pick n roll, spreading the floor, and letting the point guard go to work, than it is getting out and running.

keep up the quality posts.

At this rate, you haven't noticed it so far, so why waste more of my time with you?[/quote]

Sigh. Again, like doormat , you don't have one, and I'm over trying respond on a smartphone. Yr not worth it, really truly, when dantoni fails, and Kobe doesn't get a 6th ring and Dwight walks in the summer , we can revisit yr love of Jim buss then.

^ Alright, good to know you're still using your brain, buddy.

Doormatt wrote:

kobeaki wrote:Because you don't have anything to say, you just want to argue...

If I am wrong lets see yr evidence?

Btw, I am basing Jim buss not hiring of Phil based on his hiring of mike brown. Go back and learn something, about how that went down, Jim buss gas earned this scrutiny.

And you've never been terribly bright in the past, I don't expect anything to change now.
The point, my point, that you are too dense to get is that Jim bases his decisions on emotion and bias, not the betterment of the team or the fans.
That is the difference between a horse trainer and Jerry buss or Jerry west or Mitch kupchak

It's bush league amateur hour vs. professionalism

Regardless of feelings one way or the other.


Answer this ; is this currently constructed better suited for half court schemes? Or run and gun open court schemes?

lol ive never been bright and I"M the dense one? ok

and d'antoni is not simply run and gun open court. his offensive system is actually much more pick n roll, spreading the floor, and letting the point guard go to work, than it is getting out and running.

keep up the quality posts.

And neither is Phil strictly triangle, hasn't really been since since Chicago.

The point is that this was less a basketball decision and more a personal one.

Because it isn't popular. That's all. Again . The point. You missed it.

So I just did, above, and yr retort is; I'm not dumb, you are. Exactly.

kobeaki wrote:At this rate, you haven't noticed it so far, so why waste more of my time with you?

Sigh. Again, like doormat , you don't have one, and I'm over trying respond on a smartphone. Yr not worth it, really truly, when dantoni fails, and Kobe doesn't get a 6th ring and Dwight walks in the summer , we can revisit yr love of Jim buss then.[/quote]

How do you know he will fail? Didnt Phil fail a few times too? Why is Jim getting the blame for everthing? And since when did he make big decisions solo? Where is your evidence for this? You dont think Kupchak had any say so in who became coach?

Stebo_SSK wrote:

kobeaki wrote:At this rate, you haven't noticed it so far, so why waste more of my time with you?

Sigh. Again, like doormat , you don't have one, and I'm over trying respond on a smartphone. Yr not worth it, really truly, when dantoni fails, and Kobe doesn't get a 6th ring and Dwight walks in the summer , we can revisit yr love of Jim buss then.

How do you know he will fail? Didnt Phil fail a few times too? Why is Jim getting the blame for everthing? And since when did he make big decisions solo? Where is your evidence for this? You dont think Kupchak had any say so in who became coach?[/quote]
By everything that was said and written with the mike brown hire.
Jim was " dazzled" by brown and hired him on the spot. It's been well reported that Jim has ever growing autonomy with decision making. Jim also gets the blame because of his actions with firing the loyal scouting staff, the equipment manager of 20 years, and some front office personnel , also loyal and longtime employees... He has earned his villain persona.

Phil did fail. Yup. That's not the issue. Mike dantoni system, or anything we can base from the past says that his teams do not win , especially with playoff slow defensive grind it out opposition .

Yeah he's never had this much talent , but his talent has never been this old.
Past is prologue , this team as constructed doesnt seem to suit dantonis preferences... Which even in the best of times, 05, still come up short( though arguably they got sterned)

his teams do win wtf. he coached literally the greatest offense in the history of basketball, and the only reason his teams failed in the postseason, is because they had no defensive anchor of any kind. hell they were playing amare at center, and they still almost came out of the west. really had nothing to do with dantoni's system and more to do with the fact that their best defensive big was probably kurt thomas.

Doormatt wrote:his teams do win wtf. he coached literally the greatest offense in the history of basketball, and the only reason his teams failed in the postseason, is because they had no defensive anchor of any kind. hell they were playing amare at center, and they still almost came out of the west. really had nothing to do with dantoni's system and more to do with the fact that their best defensive big was probably kurt thomas.

This can be argued but my biggest problem still is, we do not have the shooting-talent that the suns had back then. Not even close. And we gonna need it, if Antonis system should work.

Btw. Chris Webber went nuts on NBAtv for about 15 min stating : "How the heck did Antoni get the job?? He quit in NY and I dont wanna play for/with a guy that quit before! He quit in the middle of the year. Ask the players in NY, every single one of them. How the heck did he get the job???"

That was exactly what I thought yesterday!! How the heck did this guy get the job after what happened in NY??? How the heck????

" If our team scores more points and outshoots the other team, which team played the better defense?" - Mike D'Antoni

The main difference between Phil run teams and other coaches isn't the offense... The offense is just a means to an end...
The main difference is that he gets guys to buy into a 'System of Superiority'... It's called "The Triangle" but what happens on the court is just part of it...
If you watched what happened when he first came to LA, you know what I mean. There was this infectious mystique about him... That team was loaded with talent but just couldn't achieve to their potential... They could win, but they didn't believe they could win it all... Phil and Tex and the rest of his staff changed that literally over night. It was like a switch was flipped and all of a sudden, the team just believed they were the best team in the league and started to dominate like it.
The Triangle is a foundation of the comfort zone he instilled in his players, but it's not the whole reason they were successful. They heavily modified it to suit the talent, but still called it the Triangle and still had guys buying into the mystique...
That is, until the last couple seasons... I think the Sweep by the Mavs may have single-handedly destroyed that mystique... Especially because Phil left after and didn't have a chance to do damage control and build up his guys after.
With Tex out of the picture, with Phil getting older and seemingly less intensely motivated (he's clearly not the same coach he was even 3 or 4 seasons ago), and with the mystique of the Triangle in LA probably permanently broken, I think it may be foolish to expect him to transform this team into one of his previous juggernauts.

So, while I'd love 2007-2008 Phil back, I'm not so sure about 2012 Phil...

The only other coaches in the league that bring similar "Superiority" are Pop, and to a lesser extent, Doc Rivers...
Outside of them, there really isn't anyone.

So to me, the questions about D'Antoni's style of offense, and lack of Defense are kind of just part of the picture... I know he can win games... I know this team has the personnel to be successful, and I know he's a good enough coach to modify his previous systems to fit our players.

What I don't know and frankly don't have a lot of confidence in, it whether he can make this team believe in him and what they're doing enough to feel like no matter who they face, they can't loose...

But then again, the only 2 coaches that have that mojo right now are Doc and Pop, and we can't get them anyway.

And more importantly, I don't think Phil would have it either... Not with these players, after how they went out against the Mavs.

So to me, it all comes back to our incredible roster... We have a starting 5 like the league hasn't seen in a while and at least 3 of them have maybe the highest BBallIQ at their positions...
Then we have the most dominant Defensive force in the middle.

So maybe, we don't need a coach to bring that mystique... Maybe it's our players that do that for us...
Maybe they just need the freedom to do it...

And maybe Jerry and Jim Buss, and Mitch Kupchak, realized this... That's why they hired an excellent X's and O's coach that will let his players do what they do best.

well kilroy this def backs up your statement.

KEVIN DING ‏@KevinDing
D'Antoni on being Lakers coach: "The players are really the ones who are going to win it -- and there's enough to win it."
Expand Reply Retweeted Favorite

Kilroy wrote:What I don't know and frankly don't have a lot of confidence in, it whether he can make this team believe in him and what they're doing enough to feel like no matter who they face, they can't loose...

I agree, this is critical. Ultimately, it was Mike Brown's downfall. That and the reality that all those hours he spent breaking down film didn't seem to translate into much where it counts -- the court.

A lot of people would attribute that mojo to the fact that Jackson, and the other guys you mentioned (Doc, Pop), won championships. It's certainly a fair argument, especially considering how much talent they all had to work with. Especially Phil; nobody outside of Red Auerbach was more blessed.

But their track record shows they had/have the ability to get guys to buy in before those championships happened. It's a gift. The things I always come back to with Phil are, A. He convinced Michael Jordan to share the ball, going against every habit he'd learned as a player; B. The Lakers went from rolling over like bitches in the playoffs to coming back from 15-point deficits in the fourth quarter of Game 7s to win the title.

We know Brown didn't have that quality. He might as well have been Del Harris' adopted son -- exceptionally decent human being, milquetoast leader of men. And it's fair to wonder if D'Antoni does either, although it must be pointed out that some of his Suns teams had pretty bad luck.

Like I semi-joked in another thread -- I'll give him until the All-Star game before I start forming my opinion.

Phil Jackson and John Wooden weren't great x's and o's coaches. Their strength was relating to the players and getting everyone on the same page.

Sedale Threatt wrote:Gotta be a way to work Phil/Col. Sanders in there somehow. So amusing that we had a love triangle with three of the NBA's best look-a-alikes.

For Dwight it started off with Ron Jeremy then it was Mr. Potatoe head. In the end it was down to Pringles and Colonel Sanders.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5Mi3b4vcCE[/youtube]

I thought you guys might like this.

I love these...

all of Famer Jerry West joined the show to talk about the Lakers hiring Mike D’Antoni and more.

West said he wasn’t surprised they let Mike Brown go. ”Frankly, it didn’t shock me at all the way things were going,” West said. “They didn’t look like they had a whole lot of energy.”

West said that the Lakers do need a system that lets Steve Nash be Steve Nash. West said Nash needs the ball in his hands. And he thinks that they need a system that gets Kobe Bryant easier shots. West said Dwight Howard will benefit tremendously.

West said the expectations are way too high in Los Angeles. ”Names don’t win championships,” West said. “Teams do.” He said he sees a team with flaws.

West said that he saw Phil Jackson recently and the former coach looked very healthy. But West said Jackson told him he didn’t want to coach again and West bought it at the time.

Kilroy wrote:The main difference between Phil run teams and other coaches isn't the offense... The offense is just a means to an end...
The main difference is that he gets guys to buy into a 'System of Superiority'... It's called "The Triangle" but what happens on the court is just part of it...
If you watched what happened when he first came to LA, you know what I mean. There was this infectious mystique about him... That team was loaded with talent but just couldn't achieve to their potential... They could win, but they didn't believe they could win it all... Phil and Tex and the rest of his staff changed that literally over night. It was like a switch was flipped and all of a sudden, the team just believed they were the best team in the league and started to dominate like it.
The Triangle is a foundation of the comfort zone he instilled in his players, but it's not the whole reason they were successful. They heavily modified it to suit the talent, but still called it the Triangle and still had guys buying into the mystique...
That is, until the last couple seasons... I think the Sweep by the Mavs may have single-handedly destroyed that mystique... Especially because Phil left after and didn't have a chance to do damage control and build up his guys after.
With Tex out of the picture, with Phil getting older and seemingly less intensely motivated (he's clearly not the same coach he was even 3 or 4 seasons ago), and with the mystique of the Triangle in LA probably permanently broken, I think it may be foolish to expect him to transform this team into one of his previous juggernauts.

So, while I'd love 2007-2008 Phil back, I'm not so sure about 2012 Phil...

The only other coaches in the league that bring similar "Superiority" are Pop, and to a lesser extent, Doc Rivers...
Outside of them, there really isn't anyone.

So to me, the questions about D'Antoni's style of offense, and lack of Defense are kind of just part of the picture... I know he can win games... I know this team has the personnel to be successful, and I know he's a good enough coach to modify his previous systems to fit our players.

What I don't know and frankly don't have a lot of confidence in, it whether he can make this team believe in him and what they're doing enough to feel like no matter who they face, they can't loose...

But then again, the only 2 coaches that have that mojo right now are Doc and Pop, and we can't get them anyway.

And more importantly, I don't think Phil would have it either... Not with these players, after how they went out against the Mavs.

So to me, it all comes back to our incredible roster... We have a starting 5 like the league hasn't seen in a while and at least 3 of them have maybe the highest BBallIQ at their positions...
Then we have the most dominant Defensive force in the middle.

So maybe, we don't need a coach to bring that mystique... Maybe it's our players that do that for us...
Maybe they just need the freedom to do it...

And maybe Jerry and Jim Buss, and Mitch Kupchak, realized this... That's why they hired an excellent X's and O's coach that will let his players do what they do best.

Kilroy, you're like my glass of whiskey when i get home after a rough day. you ease my mind with your soothing rhythm of your words. by the time i'm done, i feel my troubles aren't gone, instead they've flustered and choked, revealing a solution to me. keep up the good work, it's like you know there's too much crap filling our pages