WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith

Michael Lucky · Post #61 » by **Michael Lucky** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:54 pm

They might have thought about it when Mike Brown was still coach. No reason they would even consider it now with D'Antoni's system. Especially when they still have their eyes set for 14.

Jajwanda · Post #62 » by **Jajwanda** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:00 pm

That's a misleading stat. I want to see the comparison between Gasol-Smith off of the pick and pop and the spot-up. Smith takes a tremendous amount more mid-range shots based off of ISOs and plays run for him than Gasol does. If I asked Kobe to sit there all day and take open mid-ranges his percentage would be very high as well. It's low because he's defended.

Michael Lucky · Post #63 » by **Michael Lucky** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:01 pm

leeprettyp wrote:NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. WHY ARE WE CONTENT ON TRADING PAU LIKE HE'S TRASH.....

Man Josh Smith isnt near the player that Pau Gasol is. Pau is a WINNER and is too skilled to just be putting out there on the trade block every week smh. Lets move on and get accumulated to this new system. Stop trying to trade Pau Gasol unless its for Dirk and thats not happening so lets move on smh!!!

unfortunately the hate for Pau has reached a ridiculous level and it's not just on this board it's at most fan sites you'll come across. I wear Pau is blamed for everything that is wrong when it wasn't Mike Brown the target. I still remember people advocating we trade Pau for Iggy. Not only is Iggy half the player Pau is on offense but at the same time he would have replaced Metta in the starting lineup as well. So we'd be basically giving up Pau and Metta (who would still be on our roster) for Iggy + filler like this was some great trade.

Jajwanda · Post #64 » by **Jajwanda** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:03 pm

Straw man argument.

I want Pau switched out because if Smith is here, he'd form the best defensive front court the NBA has seen since who knows when. I want LeBron to be suffocating for space every time he tries to even move, trapped here, trapped there, constant physical defense leading to turnovers and fast breaks.

leeprettyp · Post #65 » by **leeprettyp** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:06 pm

Michael Lucky wrote:
leeprettyp wrote:NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. WHY ARE WE CONTENT ON TRADING PAU LIKE HE'S TRASH.....

Man Josh Smith isnt near the player that Pau Gasol is. Pau is a WINNER and is too skilled to just be putting out there on the trade block every week smh. Lets move on and get accumulated to this new system. Stop trying to trade Pau Gasol unless its for Dirk and thats not happening so lets move on smh!!!

unfortunately the hate for Pau has reached a ridiculous level and it's not just on this board it's at most fan sites you'll come across. I wear Pau is blamed for everything that is wrong when it wasn't Mike Brown the target. I still remember people advocating we trade Pau for Iggy. Not only is Iggy half the player Pau is on offense but at the same time he would have replaced Metta in the starting lineup as well. So we'd be basically giving up Pau and Metta (who would still be on our roster) for Iggy + filler like this was some great trade.

THISSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ROballer · Post #66 » by **ROballer** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:07 pm

dockingsched wrote:gasol doesn't suck from midrange. i don't think you're aware of "going rate" of what people shoot from 16-23 ft.

kobe's 16-23 career numbers: 41, 38, 41, 42, 38, 42.

dirk himself, arguably the best shooting big man ever, is in the high 40's, low 50's. pau is closer to him than he is to josh smith's level of suck.

I don't think you read my post about this..

GASOL'S NUMBERS DIP SIGNIFICANTLY WHEN HIS VOLUME INCREASES

He shot 43% last year with a career high 4.1 attempts
His second highest attempts from that range were 3.7 and he shot 39%

This year he's shooting under 40% again on over 5 attempts

Btw,Josh Smith shot 39% and 37% on 4.3 and 6.3 attempts respectively in the last 2 seasons

On high volume,they both are below average 16-23 feet shooters

I'm not even taking into account the quality of their respective shots.....I watch every Laker game and I think 80% of the attempted shots by Pau from that range are wide open shots because of the attention drawn by Kobe.Bynum/Howard

I'd the first to say I don't follow the Hawks that much,but I'm sure Smith doesn't get nearly as much space as Pau does

ROballer · Post #67 » by **ROballer** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:10 pm

Jajwanda wrote:That's a misleading stat. I want to see the comparison between Gasol-Smith off of the pick and pop and the spot-up. Smith takes a tremendous amount more mid-range shots based off of ISOs and plays run for him than Gasol does. If I asked Kobe to sit there all day and take open mid-ranges his percentage would be very high as well. It's low because he's defended.

This....thank you

It's really moot to look at the raw stats and not take into account the quality of the shots...
Gasol's taking open shots
Kobe does not....
Dirk does not

Michael Lucky · Post #68 » by **Michael Lucky** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:14 pm

well I'm thankfull that Pau doesn't shoot in the high 20s like Josh Smith does on his open shots.

raleigh · Post #69 » by **raleigh** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:14 pm

I'd the first to say I don't follow the Hawks that much,but I'm sure Smith doesn't get nearly as much space as Pau does

Here's the thing - Smith gets more open looks from mid-range on out than anyone in the NBA. Teams absolutely DARE him to shoot.

Jajwanda · Post #70 » by **Jajwanda** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:18 pm

I still need to see those numbers.

Oh and as far as other PFs go, just out of curiosity what does Jason Maxiell shoot?

ROballer · Post #71 » by **ROballer** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:21 pm

raleigh wrote:
I'd the first to say I don't follow the Hawks that much,but I'm sure Smith doesn't get nearly as much space as Pau does

Here's the thing - Smith gets more open looks from mid-range on out than anyone in the NBA. Teams absolutely DARE him to shoot.

Ok,even if he did...no one said he's better than Gasol at it

They both are below average given the looks they get....that's what I'm saying
So it's not really an argument to why we should keep Gasol over Smith

Jajwanda · Post #72 » by **Jajwanda** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:23 pm

I'm still looking for the numbers. By the way the Suns took away the option of the mid-range shot from Gasol very very quickly. Even when it's on, it's such a slow shot that the Lakers aren't going to be able to do much with it.

Post #73 » by **dockingsched** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:26 pm

josh smith is an atrocious shooter, we got that out of the way.

but show me how you conclude that pau is below average.

anyway, labeling both of them as below average as if they're comparable shooters is my biggest issue. thats like seeing that steve blake is a 39% 3pt shooter, which is good, and saying something simplistic like "nash and blake are both above average shooters"

Sedale Threatt · Post #74 » by **Sedale Threatt** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:28 pm

Jajwanda wrote:There's too much talk about how Smith is an inefficient offensive player.

How else would you describe an athletic power forward with a career TS percentage of 51.7? He's got some really nice qualities, and I'd seriously consider this just for the opportunity to get five years younger at one spot. But to think he doesn't have major issues in terms of decision-making and skill deployment just doesn't match the reality of his nine-year career.

Michael Lucky · Post #75 » by **Michael Lucky** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:28 pm

the worst part about Josh Smith is that he takes a lot of those shots anyways knowing everyone is daring him to shoot it and in doing so kills the flow of the offense.

Post #76 » by **dockingsched** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:29 pm

Jajwanda wrote:I still need to see those numbers.

Oh and as far as other PFs go, just out of curiosity what does Jason Maxiell shoot?

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?nam ... %20Maxiell

Jajwanda · Post #77 » by **Jajwanda** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:31 pm

I get an odd feeling part of this deal is to get out of Pau's contract to begin with. Here's my take on the whole situation.

The Lakers need:

- An athletic PF can run the floor, will hustle on offense and defense to get down the floor
- That PF must be able to hit the mid-range and space the floor
- He must be able to hedge the P and R
- Rebound at a solid rate
- If he is a shot-blocker even better, but Pau isn't much of a weak side shot-blocker at the PF spot anyway

Do the Lakers really need to pay 19m a year or even Smith's salary for said guy?

Michael Lucky · Post #78 » by **Michael Lucky** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:36 pm

This has nothing to do with Gasol's contract when you'd be committing yourself to a player in a contract year who is going to receive the Max. If anything it makes far more sense that they just let Pau's contract run through.

DEEP3CL · Post #79 » by **DEEP3CL** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:37 pm

Josh Smith is an OK player, but his basketball IQ leaves a lot to be desired. I guess guys stud off the fact he jumps high and he's athletic as hell. Once all that starts to fade by his 30's then what ?

I'm not saying it won't happen because after the things Mitch and Jim have done I don't doubt it one bit. For as David J. Stern said "basketball reasons", it won't make sense for us long term. You got a guy looking for max who won't be a max player in his 30's.......book it.

Jajwanda · Post #80 » by **Jajwanda** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:37 pm

What would make sense would be to trade Pau for an asset at another spot, then acquire an inexpensive PF that can do what Pau is doing right now (pick and pop). Pau's talents at PF are not being showcased to say the least. In this offense he'll rarely be a guy that will get post up time.